Long Kesh Park takes another step forward

[stiffler]

So you reckon they are gonna build a new stadium at the maze and dont have a road leading onto the main road. hmmmmm sounds a bit strange there sammy.

It is worse than strange it is unworkable. That is the whole crux of the problem.

and you reckon it is 5/6 miles from the maze to the nearest bus stop? hmmmmm.

No I aid it was 5-6 miles from the nearest bus station. My question was how do you get from the station to the Maze?

How do you get from a bus station to the maze? is this a serious question? I dont know where you come from Sammy, but where i live you normally find buses at bus stations.



I know the Olympic stadium is not in the middle of no where now but it was built 10 years ago. Its amazing how something like this regenerate an area. Within ten years of the Long Kesh stadium opening, the Maze will be a Suburb of Lisburn with land space at a premium.

[snatter]

The stadium in Sydney is an outer city location with excellent conferencing and hotel facilities. This is possible with the Maze. The maze has access via roads (the M1), bus, trains (Moira, Lisburn stations), by air (International Airport). You cant see the wood from the trees Samuel. Your just like the British, stiff upper lip.

As you obviously didn't read the transport info, that I posted earlier, I'll pick out a few points for you.

There are no plans and no money for a new road spur to the Maze
There are no plans and no money to provide a rail link to the Maze
Even if there were plans for a rail link there aren't enouh trains in the whole of NI to cope with the capacity required
There are no plans and no spare capacity for new bus services to the Maze.

Even if all of these could be resolved you still haven't answered the question of how you'd get people from the airport/bus station/train station to the ground? Are you expecting 40000 people to walk 5-6 miles?

Sammy,

The only 40k crowd going anywhere a genuine shared space multisport stadium will be a GAA one.
As already stated in this thread, they will come predominantly by car from the south and west of Ulster.
There is no public transport infrastructure from these areas - as at present, all journeys to GAA matches will be by road.
Indeed, given the pitiful state of NI public transport in NI (including Belfast), nearly all journeys to a new stadium would be by road regardless of where there stadium is.
The public transport issue is of minimal importance in this debate - the issue is deliberately being given undue prominence by the Belfast brigade.

I repeat: the vast vast majority of fans going to the new stadium each year will do so by road.

[SammyG]

I repeat: the vast vast majority of fans going to the new stadium each year will do so by road.

100% correct and I'm not sure where I've ever said anything different.

The issue is that there is no infrastructue to get people to the Maze, however they decide to travel, and no plans or budget to build anyl.

[Rossfan]

, we need a Mary Harney style figure to throw her weight around

There's no need for that Mr Gwayt'hell > Mary cant help being as she is.


I'd better put in one or two  of these so ye Nordies will see I'm trying to crack a joke.

[GweylTah]

I had put it that way before I realised - I'm not built unlike Ms Harney myself, so I don't feel I'm being too nasty!!!

But her common sense and prudence in issues like this would be good before hundreds of millions of pounds is wasted and one political career ruined (actually, on  second thoughts, bring on the Maze and get Poots the cumuppance he deserves for being so totally out of his depth).

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

This arguement is getting tiresome, when do the powers that be make a decision on this issue?

[Evil Genius]

when do the powers that be make a decision on this issue?

Poots only has the cheek to demand that Belfast City Council produce a full plan, with costings etc, by the end of this month. Which is all very well, except he has yet to come up with his plan for the Maze, never mind equivalent costings, despite the Government spending on "consultation", "management fees" etc over the last three years running well into seven figures (as well as having Civil Service departments at Stormont etc available to work on it).

Anyhow, as I work my way through the Report, this excerpt from the Summary caught my attention:

Professor of Marketing at UU, David Carson said: "Seldom have we experienced such overwhelming evidence for one dimension, namely the in-town location."

The team who carried out the research include UU experts in the fields of the built environment, economics and marketing, and supported by a network of expert advisers from across the university.

They examined modern UK stadiums, including those at Cardiff Millennium, Hull KC, and Huddersfield Galpharm - for best practice in revenue generation.

[slow corner back]

I must say that Poots really does sound like hes spoofing. Even other DUP men are having a pop. Sammy Wilson had a go at him yesterday. Personally as I have said on here before and been attacked I think the stadium should be in Ormeau Park and designed for Rugby and Football with a 25000 capacity. Some of the many millions saved could then be given to the GAA to develop Casement and a handful of new club pitches around Belfast which are badly needed. Casement can hold 30,000 which is sufficient for a GAA stadium in Belfast, club pitches are in very short supply. look at the chaos when the council decided to close Cherryvale in early August last year.

[Donagh]

Well as a resident of the Ormeau who finds it difficult to get a parking space outside the house, and witnesses the 2hour gridlock on the road every morning and evening I would be firmly against and most of the neighbours would be of the same mind. Ormeau Park is a non-starter.

[GweylTah]

Well as a resident of the Ormeau who finds it difficult to get a parking space outside the house, and witnesses the 2hour gridlock on the road every morning and evening I would be firmly against and most of the neighbours would be of the same mind. Ormeau Park is a non-starter.

What will you do if it goes ahead? 

[Donagh]

Well as a resident of the Ormeau who finds it difficult to get a parking space outside the house, and witnesses the 2hour gridlock on the road every morning and evening I would be firmly against and most of the neighbours would be of the same mind. Ormeau Park is a non-starter.

What will you do if it goes ahead? 

It won't

[snatter]

I must say that Poots really does sound like hes spoofing. Even other DUP men are having a pop. Sammy Wilson had a go at him yesterday. Personally as I have said on here before and been attacked I think the stadium should be in Ormeau Park and designed for Rugby and Football with a 25000 capacity. Some of the many millions saved could then be given to the GAA to develop Casement and a handful of new club pitches around Belfast which are badly needed. Casement can hold 30,000 which is sufficient for a GAA stadium in Belfast, club pitches are in very short supply. look at the chaos when the council decided to close Cherryvale in early August last year.

You What?
So when 20k soccers fans are all sitting on cosy seats with a roof over their heads, enjoying an uninterrupted view courtesy of the taxpayer, us bog dwellers are expected to huddle together in the rain on cold concrete terraces - Despite our annual attendance figures for big matches being 10 times those of soccer.

Get a grip. No more croppies lying down on this one mate.

[snatter]

when do the powers that be make a decision on this issue?

Poots only has the cheek to demand that Belfast City Council produce a full plan, with costings etc, by the end of this month. Which is all very well, except he has yet to come up with his plan for the Maze, never mind equivalent costings, despite the Government spending on "consultation", "management fees" etc over the last three years running well into seven figures (as well as having Civil Service departments at Stormont etc available to work on it).

Anyhow, as I work my way through the Report, this excerpt from the Summary caught my attention:

Professor of Marketing at UU, David Carson said: "Seldom have we experienced such overwhelming evidence for one dimension, namely the in-town location."

The team who carried out the research include UU experts in the fields of the built environment, economics and marketing, and supported by a network of expert advisers from across the university.

They examined modern UK stadiums, including those at Cardiff Millennium, Hull KC, and Huddersfield Galpharm - for best practice in revenue generation.

Evil,

the report is appallingly unbalanced and from the outset attempts to totally undermine the agreed Shared Spaces approach of all three sports coming together in a spirit of equality and co-operation.

It starts off by totally redefining a shared stadium to suit its own purposes - a Shared Stadium in its eyes has morphed from the above to " a stadium used by more than one sport". There you go, right at the start of the report, the goalposts have been shifted.
The rest of the report is just tailored to meet this noew non-inclusive definition.
Lazy, sloppy waste of time that totally ignores the real issues.

It admits that no suitable neutral sites for a Shared Space stadium can be identified in Belfast.
It then goes on to raises the valid question " which is more important - a. international best practice or b. adherence to Shared Spaces?

Amazingly after raising the question, it chooses not to answer, or even comment on the question it raised.
Instead it just says to go for international best practices.
As stated in my earlier post, they have
1. conveniently managed to ignore real GAA attendences, and have instead settled on a perceived soccer friendly figure.
2. misrepresented the publicly stated and independently verified GAA need for a single modern high capacity stadium. (see GAA Strategic Review).
3. made no attempt to map the origin of fans who would go the new stadium.
4. they have oversold public transport benefits of Belfast when the dog in the street knows that most journeys will be by car and most will be made by GAA fans.
5. they have ignored the fact that none of the proposed Belfast sites have made any attempt to cater for the GAA.

In short, there solution differs little from that typically expressed in OWC - build soccer fans a  free small capacity all seater soccer sized stadium in Belfast and to hell with the bogmen.

From the outset I've alwas maintained that any directly or indirectly publicy financed stadium must be made avaialble for ALL three sports, and not ignore the most popular of the three.
No way are GAA fans going to accept second classs treatment on this.
The political  mood has changed - the govt have agreed on a shared facility for some time now - at least 5 years if my recollections of Hansard are correct.
Nothing in this report will change any of that.

[SammyG]

I must say that Poots really does sound like hes spoofing. Even other DUP men are having a pop. Sammy Wilson had a go at him yesterday. Personally as I have said on here before and been attacked I think the stadium should be in Ormeau Park and designed for Rugby and Football with a 25000 capacity. Some of the many millions saved could then be given to the GAA to develop Casement and a handful of new club pitches around Belfast which are badly needed. Casement can hold 30,000 which is sufficient for a GAA stadium in Belfast, club pitches are in very short supply. look at the chaos when the council decided to close Cherryvale in early August last year.

You What?
So when 20k soccers fans are all sitting on cosy seats with a roof over their heads, enjoying an uninterrupted view courtesy of the taxpayer, us bog dwellers are expected to huddle together in the rain on cold concrete terraces - Despite our annual attendance figures for big matches being 10 times those of soccer.

Get a grip. No more croppies lying down on this one mate.

Brilliant, totally ignore all the issues and go for the oul victim card. Pathetic.

And for the millionth time the Belfast stadium will not be funded with taxpayers money, but don't let the facts get in the way of your rant

[SammyG]

snatter

When you've finished riciting from the Sinn Fein handbook of quotes (have you got your own or did you borrow Donagh's?  ) is there any chance you could address any of the actual issues?