Monaghan v Tyrone - Sunday 15th June - St Tiernach's Park Clones

[Knock Yer Mucker In]

Some dosh bags talking here. Big Sean, who wouldn't jump at having him as a club or county player for themselves. I can remember the great Jacko bogging his boot into the late Dermot Earlys ass in the middle of Croke Park on All Ireland final day against Roscommon. Give my head peace lads.

[AZOffaly]

Parkinson is siding with Sean here.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/off-the-ball/pundits-need-to-alter-focus-and-stop-pops-at-cavanagh-30363277.html

If Parkinson agrees with you, you might need to re-examine your position. I must say I was amused at there being no reason for a defender to have his hand in near the attacker. You are still allowed try and dispossess the man by slapping the ball out of his hands I presume? Sounds like Wooly wants defenders to stand beside him with their arms behind their backs.

Call it what you like, justify it anyway you like, but the fact of the matter is grabbing a lad's arm and dragging him to the ground on top of you to make it look like he dragged you down is a) a foul itself and b) an attempt to con the ref

[AZOffaly]

Some dosh bags talking here. Big Sean, who wouldn't jump at having him as a club or county player for themselves. I can remember the great Jacko bogging his boot into the late Dermot Earlys ass in the middle of Croke Park on All Ireland final day against Roscommon. Give my head peace lads.

Is that a defense of him? I don't want to pick on Sean Cavanagh, but what has the fact that every county in Ireland would like to have him (they would) got to do with whether he is fond of the auld embellishment? It's like everything has to be 100% good or 100% bad with some lads. It is never that way, and Sean Cavanagh is an exceptional footballer, who happens to win frees occasionally when they are not merited. Is that such a controversial thing to say?

He's by no means the only lad to do it either.


all the other Tyrone lads do it too!!!!

[nrico2006]

Hughes was fouling Cavanagh, he got a black card and it was deserved.  Monaghan won and thats that. 

[Knock Yer Mucker In]

Some dosh bags talking here. Big Sean, who wouldn't jump at having him as a club or county player for themselves. I can remember the great Jacko bogging his boot into the late Dermot Earlys ass in the middle of Croke Park on All Ireland final day against Roscommon. Give my head peace lads.

Is that a defense of him? I don't want to pick on Sean Cavanagh, but what has the fact that every county in Ireland would like to have him (they would) got to do with whether he is fond of the auld embellishment? It's like everything has to be 100% good or 100% bad with some lads. It is never that way, and Sean Cavanagh is an exceptional footballer, who happens to win frees occasionally when they are not merited. Is that such a controversial thing to say?

He's by no means the only lad to do it either.


all the other Tyrone lads do it too!!!!

That's right he is not, and I want him to continue getting us frees by exaggerating his fall, it is all part of the game. Any team would want a player who could get them frees by whatever way.

[GrandMasterFlash]

What seems to have been glossed over is the small incident which happen between big Sean and McManus last year, which I feel played a massive influence in Hughes et. al. wanting to hang out of big Sean on Sunday.. Monaghan remained reasonably composed about it (thankfully, only losing one man to a black card in relation) but to me they'd have formed an orderly cue to get a dig at him. Lets be honest lads, revenge is sweet..

[WT4E]

Parkinson is siding with Sean here.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/off-the-ball/pundits-need-to-alter-focus-and-stop-pops-at-cavanagh-30363277.html

If Parkinson agrees with you, you might need to re-examine your position. I must say I was amused at there being no reason for a defender to have his hand in near the attacker. You are still allowed try and dispossess the man by slapping the ball out of his hands I presume? Sounds like Wooly wants defenders to stand beside him with their arms behind their backs.

Call it what you like, justify it anyway you like, but the fact of the matter is grabbing a lad's arm and dragging him to the ground on top of you to make it look like he dragged you down is a) a foul itself and b) an attempt to con the ref

I think what he was saying was the manner of the tackle was always going to be a foul. Coaching indicates this.

If you listen to any coach the proper way to tackle in such a situation is whilst running along side the attacker use the near hand in and out to dispossess. Once you reach across with the other hand or over the back - especially when someone like Cavanagh is running 95% of time it will be a foul.

Hughes definitely fouled Cavanagh!

[Rois]

What seems to have been glossed over is the small incident which happen between big Sean and McManus last year, which I feel played a massive influence in Hughes et. al. wanting to hang out of big Sean on Sunday.. Monaghan remained reasonably composed about it (thankfully, only losing one man to a black card in relation) but to me they'd have formed an orderly cue to get a dig at him. Lets be honest lads, revenge is sweet..

So you're justifying fouls? 

Okkkkk.................

[AZOffaly]

That's correct WT4E, but also when you are face on, you are entitled to try and play the ball. In fact you are entitled to try and play the ball at any time, you're just not very likely to get it if you're reaching in from behind, and you are more likely to foul that way. That's why we coach footwork and body position as well as the near hand tackle etc.

*However* just because you are out of position and reaching in, that does not necessarily mean you are fouling, and does not entitle a lad to grab you and pull you down on top of him. It's probably bad technique, but it's not illegal technique unless you are actually fouling the man. There's no rule that says you can't tackle the ball from behind, in front, the side or anywhere else.

[BennyHarp]

That's correct WT4E, but also when you are face on, you are entitled to try and play the ball. In fact you are entitled to try and play the ball at any time, you're just not very likely to get it if you're reaching in from behind, and you are more likely to foul that way. That's why we coach footwork and body position as well as the near hand tackle etc.

*However* just because you are out of position and reaching in, that does not necessarily mean you are fouling, and does not entitle a lad to grab you and pull you down on top of him. It's probably bad technique, but it's not illegal technique unless you are actually fouling the man. There's no rule that says you can't tackle the ball from behind, in front, the side or anywhere else.

No it doesn't but when you are reaching in with your right arm then wrap your left around the torso of the player then the chances are you are going to commit a foul. Every single forward player i know worth their salt will take advantage of this sort of tackling which is commited to slow up the attacker in an unfair/illegal way. Why should Sean Cavanagh, in the dying minutes of a big championship game, let an opposing player foul him, stop him from making progress and cost his team a place in an Ulster Semi final? To prove his manliness? To stop internet trolls from critising him? Give me a break..... Cavanagh was fouled, he went to ground, he may have helped bring Hughes to ground to make sure he got the free. (Monaghan players where tactically fouling then claiming diving throughout the game - see Dessie Mone's ridiculous accusation that Sean dived after his throat high tackle on him.) Ultimately Cavanagh would have saved Tyrone had Morgan kicked a point he could normally kick in his sleep - i would have taken that with pleasure. If I was from Monaghan, i'd be more concerned with how they nearly let a dead and buried Tyrone team off the hook than worrying themselves with Cavanagh.

[omaghjoe]

That's correct WT4E, but also when you are face on, you are entitled to try and play the ball. In fact you are entitled to try and play the ball at any time, you're just not very likely to get it if you're reaching in from behind, and you are more likely to foul that way. That's why we coach footwork and body position as well as the near hand tackle etc.

*However* just because you are out of position and reaching in, that does not necessarily mean you are fouling, and does not entitle a lad to grab you and pull you down on top of him. It's probably bad technique, but it's not illegal technique unless you are actually fouling the man. There's no rule that says you can't tackle the ball from behind, in front, the side or anywhere else.

That's all fine and well AZ and I agree with what your saying.

Problem is in this case its irrelevant considering the fact that Hughes grabbed him and pulled him down equating to a foul

[AZOffaly]

Maybe so. I'm just having a go at Parkinson.

[omaghjoe]

The bias against Tyrone from some is nauseating. The guy was fouled twice maybe 3 times in a manner that would warrant a black card EOS

[AZOffaly]

That's correct WT4E, but also when you are face on, you are entitled to try and play the ball. In fact you are entitled to try and play the ball at any time, you're just not very likely to get it if you're reaching in from behind, and you are more likely to foul that way. That's why we coach footwork and body position as well as the near hand tackle etc.

*However* just because you are out of position and reaching in, that does not necessarily mean you are fouling, and does not entitle a lad to grab you and pull you down on top of him. It's probably bad technique, but it's not illegal technique unless you are actually fouling the man. There's no rule that says you can't tackle the ball from behind, in front, the side or anywhere else.

No it doesn't but when you are reaching in with your right arm then wrap your left around the torso of the player then the chances are you are going to commit a foul. Every single forward player i know worth their salt will take advantage of this sort of tackling which is commited to slow up the attacker in an unfair/illegal way. Why should Sean Cavanagh, in the dying minutes of a big championship game, let an opposing player foul him, stop him from making progress and cost his team a place in an Ulster Semi final? To prove his manliness? To stop internet trolls from critising him? Give me a break..... Cavanagh was fouled, he went to ground, he may have helped bring Hughes to ground to make sure he got the free. (Monaghan players where tactically fouling then claiming diving throughout the game - see Dessie Mone's ridiculous accusation that Sean dived after his throat high tackle on him.) Ultimately Cavanagh would have saved Tyrone had Morgan kicked a point he could normally kick in his sleep - i would have taken that with pleasure. If I was from Monaghan, i'd be more concerned with how they nearly let a dead and buried Tyrone team off the hook than worrying themselves with Cavanagh.

I'm not talking about the Cavanagh incident specifically. I'm refuting Parkinson's suggestion that a defender can't have his arm/hand anywhere near the attacker.

Cavanagh is a fine exponent of the tuck and roll (far from the only one as I've said) , but I have no idea if he was fouled or not in that incident. I haven't bothered to research it as I've never commented on that incident itself.

[AZOffaly]

The bias against Tyrone from some is nauseating. The guy was fouled twice maybe 3 times in a manner that would warrant a black card EOS

I hope that's not aimed at me. I've spent quite a bit of time defending Tyrone when I thought it was necessary. Bias against Wooly on the other hand, guilty as charged.