Monaghan v Tyrone - Sunday 15th June - St Tiernach's Park Clones

[Nally Stand]

Is it just me or do his arms look a bit long?

Does anyone know a physio in Mayo could verify it?

There's one in Ballina that says it has been photoshopped for sure.

[The Bearded One]

Is a forward trying to obtain an advantage like Sean Cavanagh has done on Sunday any different from a defender who pulls/drags their opponent off the ball? Or who gives a sneaky tug of the shorts from behind as they race to a ball?

Why demonise one man for trying to gain an advantage but ignore other offences? Is there a hierarchy of offences?

[blewuporstuffed]

Is a forward trying to obtain an advantage like Sean Cavanagh has done on Sunday any different from a defender who pulls/drags their opponent off the ball? Or who gives a sneaky tug of the shorts from behind as they race to a ball?

Why demonise one man for trying to gain an advantage but ignore other offences? Is there a hierarchy of offences?

buts sure as long as we get high scoring matches sure what odds

[Rossfan]

How many pages will this run to I wonder 

[BennyHarp]

How many pages will this run to I wonder 

Only matter of time before someone hilariously make this comment.

[Mayo4Sam]

Can anyone tell me why Cavanagh got a yellow and not a black for his "tackle" 30 seconds from the end?

For what its worth the penalty looked very soft, although technically probably a foul, he caught his leg with his own knee, similar but not as blatent as what happed to cillian o'connor in the ros match.

Correct call on the black card also, fair enough cavanagh did pull him down but he was fouled first so you deal with that, result = free in and black card

[blewuporstuffed]

Can anyone tell me why Cavanagh got a yellow and not a black for his "tackle" 30 seconds from the end?

For what its worth the penalty looked very soft, although technically probably a foul, he caught his leg with his own knee, similar but not as blatent as what happed to cillian o'connor in the ros match.

Correct call on the black card also, fair enough cavanagh did pull him down but he was fouled first so you deal with that, result = free in and black card

i can certainly see your point, but this is one of the main problems with the black card, you would have as many people that would take the opposite view and say Cavanagh pulled him down and that HE should have gotten a black card, and this is with seeing it multiple time and from different angles on replays.
How is a referee supposed to get a  call like that right and insure that the wrong man isnt standing on the sideline for the close of the game when the decision is so much down to interpretation?

[BennyHarp]

Can anyone tell me why Cavanagh got a yellow and not a black for his "tackle" 30 seconds from the end?

For what its worth the penalty looked very soft, although technically probably a foul, he caught his leg with his own knee, similar but not as blatent as what happed to cillian o'connor in the ros match.

Correct call on the black card also, fair enough cavanagh did pull him down but he was fouled first so you deal with that, result = free in and black card

i can certainly see your point, but this is one of the main problems with the black card, you would have as many people that would take the opposite view and say Cavanagh pulled him down and that HE should have gotten a black card, and this is with seeing it multiple time and from different angles on replays.
How is a referee supposed to get a  call like that right and insure that the wrong man isnt standing on the sideline for the close of the game when the decision is so much down to interpretation?

This is the thing, there is huge pressure on the referees to get the calls right and unfortunately they are proving that they are not up to it. The call becomes massive when it results in the player sitting out the rest of the game. There's a thin line between making a punishment severe enough to deter the fouls and making it so severe that the refs are nearly afraid to make the call - especially early in a big game and especially when it is not clear cut as in a few recent incidents. Is it time that we had a team of 15 - 20 or so professional referees (or if every county had a professional referee), who would officiate at all inter county championship games. During the week they could visit clubs and schools around the country training new referees and doing workshops for players.  They could even do schools games and big club games when championship matches arent on. This would disseminate the message through the grades.  We could set up development squads for the referees too.

[imtommygunn]

Referees have huge pressure on them these days and to be honest I think the black card is the final straw and has put just that bit too much pressure on them as individuals. With that and the increased tv coverage and all out scrutiny they get they're on a hiding to nothing.

All things considered the ref did a great job sunday. Ulster championship games are the worst of any to ref.

The diving(from all teams) has increased significantly and is just another pressure on top of black cards and everything else they have to look at.

Personally I don't know why anyone would want to be a ref and it's made worse by ex refs scrutinising them too.

[Zip Code]

Referees have huge pressure on them these days and to be honest I think the black card is the final straw and has put just that bit too much pressure on them as individuals. With that and the increased tv coverage and all out scrutiny they get they're on a hiding to nothing.

All things considered the ref did a great job sunday. Ulster championship games are the worst of any to ref.

The diving(from all teams) has increased significantly and is just another pressure on top of black cards and everything else they have to look at.

Personally I don't know why anyone would want to be a ref and it's made worse by ex refs scrutinising them too.

Small men with a bit of power, they all love it.

[Fuzzman]

The infuriating thing is that Sean would, in all likelihood, have got his free if he had of tried to continue on. Hughes may have still got a black card as anyone moving at that speed would likely hit the dirt. Grabbing his arm on the fall leaves Sean open to ridicule and takes the focus away from how much fouling/abuse he receives himself.

Well said OG and I really wish he would stop doing this as well. It seems to me he's been concentrating on the dragging DOWN part in his head and knowing that defenders now will try to stop him by staying on their feet and dragging him with two hands.

This conversation brings me back to 2003 and all the talk about Tyrone diving and how it was used to counteract Armagh's bending the rules on physicality to the edge.
I remember chats about quite often there would be a foul but the ref would let it go as it was a tough championship match and you wouldn't get frees for fouls in say the AI semi or final that you would get on round 1 or National league games.

We might not like to admit it but refs are more like to give the free if the man on the ball ends up on the ground due to a tackle. It certainly helps to make his mind up as the advantage is over.
I remember for years watching Stevie O'Neill with 2 men hanging out of him and managing to stay upright but the ref making exceptions cos Stevie was so strong and often not giving the foul. I think we saw that a few times on Sunday as well.
Whereas Sean certainly does get fouled a hell of a lot and understandably so cos he is such an influential player for Tyrone. Often if you stop Sean you stop Tyrone. Sean obviously has been dealing with that now for years and so his way of combating that is to think "F**K Yis, if you're gonna foul me then I'm gonna go to ground to help make the refs mind up for him. Is this wrong?
Some will say YES(mainly defenders or anti Tyrone groups) and some will say No (mainly talented forwards)
Someone said why does Gooch not go down more then and earn more frees.
It's not in his mindset I suppose but then again he doesn't play in Ulster football either where there are a lot more robust tackling and defensive tactics.
As someone said Nudie Hughes and many others used to grab the arm and go down years ago so this is not a new phenomenon. The main difference is you now have motor mouths like Brolly and others who go on a major RANT and with so much social media nowadays his followers are more than happy to join in.

In my biased eyes I said it back then in 2003 and I'll say it again now that PTG and Sean Cavanagh often go to ground when they're being fouled to ensure the free is given. I don't think I've seen either of them blatantly DIVE when there has been no contact.


Re the Ref on Sunday. What did ye neutrals think? Forget the black card tackles did you think he favoured one team over another?

[Fuzzman]

Monaghan keeping things in perspective
Veteran midfielder says win over Tyrone merely another stepping stone on an arduous path as minds turn to Armagh's challenge



The football championship this past weekend offered starkly contrasting stories; Monaghan's controlled joy in Clones and Carlow's 28-point humiliation in their outdated Dr Cullen Park.
Tyrone's first defeat to their southern neighbours since 1988 appeared to anger Mickey Harte so much that he refused to comment to the media.
Thankfully veteran Monaghan midfielder Dick Clerkin was full of chatter. The mindset radically altered, beating Tyrone wasn't about life and death, it was just another game.
"That's the pressure we put on ourselves far too much, prior to Malachy [O'Rourke] coming. We 'had' to do this, we 'had' to win an Ulster title. That pressure maybe weighed on us too much.
"Malachy said to us during the week, you know, there's one and a half billion people in China that couldn't give a shite about that game today. That puts things in perspective. The worst thing that could happen today is that we lose here to Tyrone, and that's it, we push on.
"It was about going out, enjoying it, playing without expectation and just focusing on the job at hand. We were physically well-prepared, we knew we had the players, and we had a management team that would make the right choices."
Emotional side
Clerkin added: "Maybe we have stopped talking about 'having' to beat Tyrone, that we can't go back here as losers. None of that talk was thrown about, because what does that mean? It means nothing. You are focussing on something you have no control over.
"Players have a job to do, a system of play in terms of players knowing how to do their job. They focused on that, not the emotional side.
"Again, Malachy, the crew and the players put an end to that talk. You just go out, focus on your job and see how far it takes you."
One of those players is Conor McManus. Feared to be gone for the summer, having damaged ankle ligaments on the May Bank Holiday weekend, the current All Star planted 0-6 from frees in a 70-minute stretch.
"Malachy is very conscious of keeping people's expectations in check. Before the match when Conor was announced, if it had have been announced a couple days earlier it would have been a lot of talk, maybe unnecessary pressure. So much has gone into getting Conor back, he was captain this year, an All-Star last year and he was looking forward to a big season.
"To get struck down with an injury that can end people's seasons, I think to come back and the medical team to get him to play 70 minutes there today was phenomenal and I am just delighted for him because he deserves every bit of it."
Of course, Monaghan are only leaving base camp. Armagh next, possibly Donegal after, before the rest of the country gets interested.
"If we want to talk about us being a top-tier team, we have to take that pressure. Plenty of times over the years we haven't dealt with pressure like that, but this team with Malachy, we can manage expectation well.
"He will dampen down things...all we can do is worry about ourselves...Armagh are a county steeped in tradition, they are aware that tradition was being questioned over the last few years and they have turned a corner, no more than we did last year. So we will be looking at their team, they are very much in the same mould as we were last year."

[Mayo4Sam]

Can anyone tell me why Cavanagh got a yellow and not a black for his "tackle" 30 seconds from the end?

For what its worth the penalty looked very soft, although technically probably a foul, he caught his leg with his own knee, similar but not as blatent as what happed to cillian o'connor in the ros match.

Correct call on the black card also, fair enough cavanagh did pull him down but he was fouled first so you deal with that, result = free in and black card

i can certainly see your point, but this is one of the main problems with the black card, you would have as many people that would take the opposite view and say Cavanagh pulled him down and that HE should have gotten a black card, and this is with seeing it multiple time and from different angles on replays.
How is a referee supposed to get a  call like that right and insure that the wrong man isnt standing on the sideline for the close of the game when the decision is so much down to interpretation?

First foul (and black card offence) was by the Monaghan man

[AZOffaly]

Referees have huge pressure on them these days and to be honest I think the black card is the final straw and has put just that bit too much pressure on them as individuals. With that and the increased tv coverage and all out scrutiny they get they're on a hiding to nothing.

All things considered the ref did a great job sunday. Ulster championship games are the worst of any to ref.

The diving(from all teams) has increased significantly and is just another pressure on top of black cards and everything else they have to look at.

Personally I don't know why anyone would want to be a ref and it's made worse by ex refs scrutinising them too.

Small men with a bit of power, they all love it.

We'd be fairly fucked if they didn't do it.

[Maguire01]

Can anyone tell me why Cavanagh got a yellow and not a black for his "tackle" 30 seconds from the end?

For what its worth the penalty looked very soft, although technically probably a foul, he caught his leg with his own knee, similar but not as blatent as what happed to cillian o'connor in the ros match.

Correct call on the black card also, fair enough cavanagh did pull him down but he was fouled first so you deal with that, result = free in and black card

i can certainly see your point, but this is one of the main problems with the black card, you would have as many people that would take the opposite view and say Cavanagh pulled him down and that HE should have gotten a black card, and this is with seeing it multiple time and from different angles on replays.
How is a referee supposed to get a  call like that right and insure that the wrong man isnt standing on the sideline for the close of the game when the decision is so much down to interpretation?

First foul (and black card offence) was by the Monaghan man

Well it all depends in who deliberately pulled down who. That's the only offence here that could be black card territory. Hughes' tackling may have been a foul, but it's only the foul of deliberately pulling down that's a black card. Its clear that Cavanagh was trying to pull Hughes down before he went down, so not sure how you can conclude that Hughes committed a black card offence first.