The Battle of Omagh part II - Role reversal

[BennyHarp]

Pure nonsense - he played the man in a goal scoring position and pulled him to the ground in a similar fashion to McNamee in the first half, if the ref sees that as a foul he must give a black card.

Goal scoring position is absolutely irrelevant.

If he did pull him to the ground, like McNamee, making no attempt to tackle, then a black card would have been appropriate. But that's not what happened!

What did the ref give the penalty for?

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Pure nonsense - he played the man in a goal scoring position and pulled him to the ground in a similar fashion to McNamee in the first half, if the ref sees that as a foul he must give a black card.

Goal scoring position is absolutely irrelevant.

If he did pull him to the ground, like McNamee, making no attempt to tackle, then a black card would have been appropriate. But that's not what happened!

What did the ref give the penalty for?

because of a blatant dive?

If the keeper had pulled the forward down without any attempt at all to play the ball ( a la Cavanagh last year) it would have been a black card he however made a play at the ball. The difference with the black card in the first half was that the Tyrone player whilst on the ground hand tripped O'Gara without any attempt at the ball.

[BennyHarp]

Pure nonsense - he played the man in a goal scoring position and pulled him to the ground in a similar fashion to McNamee in the first half, if the ref sees that as a foul he must give a black card.

Goal scoring position is absolutely irrelevant.

If he did pull him to the ground, like McNamee, making no attempt to tackle, then a black card would have been appropriate. But that's not what happened!

What did the ref give the penalty for?

because of a blatant dive?

If the keeper had pulled the forward down without any attempt at all to play the ball ( a la Cavanagh last year) it would have been a black card he however made a play at the ball. The difference with the black card in the first half was that the Tyrone player whilst on the ground hand tripped O'Gara without any attempt at the ball.

ok well if this is the case then he should have shown McGuigan a yellow card. However, he didn't see like that and thought the goalie dragged the player down - hence, he gave a penalty. This is a black card, whether he played the ball is subjective. My point here is - the ref saw it as a drag down therefore it should have been a black card.

[blewuporstuffed]

One of my issues with the black card , is that a 'tackle' like that of kevin mcmenamon on mattie donnelly, still isnta  black card under the new rules.It seems a strange inconsistency to me.
How is what he did (hauling a player that had gone past him back by the neck) any less cynical than the likes of the mcnamee one?

If anything the black card encourages players to go to ground when tackled as this then fits the  description of a black card foul.

[Zulu]

It isn't a black just because the player is brought down. I saw the match but missed the penalty so I don't know whether it was a black card or not but if the ref deemed the goalkeeper to be attempting to tackle or block a shot then he shouldn't have been black carded.

Btw, neither of the Dublin high tackles were black cards and it is clear many people haven't a clue what is or isn't a black card.

[J OGorman]

Pure nonsense - he played the man in a goal scoring position and pulled him to the ground in a similar fashion to McNamee in the first half, if the ref sees that as a foul he must give a black card.

Goal scoring position is absolutely irrelevant.

If he did pull him to the ground, like McNamee, making no attempt to tackle, then a black card would have been appropriate. But that's not what happened!

Surely anti black card tactics would have emerged by now in the league ?

Really? Do you think all hands have shown already? Do you really think teams like Tyrone are going to set up to defend like they have been come championship? I've already seen a drift backwards in the defensive line, it could turn into a rugby league style defensive system, it's very nearly the only alternative if you don't have strong man markers - I would strongly suggest that teams will not leave defenders one on one in the summer.

Benny, risky business rolling out a new untested defensive strategy come the first round of the championship, esp during year one of the black card

[BennyHarp]

Pure nonsense - he played the man in a goal scoring position and pulled him to the ground in a similar fashion to McNamee in the first half, if the ref sees that as a foul he must give a black card.

Goal scoring position is absolutely irrelevant.

If he did pull him to the ground, like McNamee, making no attempt to tackle, then a black card would have been appropriate. But that's not what happened!

Surely anti black card tactics would have emerged by now in the league ?

Really? Do you think all hands have shown already? Do you really think teams like Tyrone are going to set up to defend like they have been come championship? I've already seen a drift backwards in the defensive line, it could turn into a rugby league style defensive system, it's very nearly the only alternative if you don't have strong man markers - I would strongly suggest that teams will not leave defenders one on one in the summer.

Benny, risky business rolling out a new untested defensive strategy come the first round of the championship, esp during year one of the black card

Riskier than conceding 2 goals in the first 1min 14 seconds?

[blewuporstuffed]

It isn't a black just because the player is brought down. I saw the match but missed the penalty so I don't know whether it was a black card or not but if the ref deemed the goalkeeper to be attempting to tackle or block a shot then he shouldn't have been black carded.

Btw, neither of the Dublin high tackles were black cards and it is clear many people haven't a clue what is or isn't a black card.

I know under the current rules it isnt a black card.
My point is, when they were bringing in a something as drastic as the balck card to combat cyncial play, why is it not???
He deliberately pulled the player back high round the neck in order to stop his progress, no attempt whatsoever was made to tackle the ball.
It just seems a huge inconstancy to me.
If anything the mcmanamon one was worse than any of the others mentioned as it was both dangerous & cynical, yet doesn't warrant the same punishment as the mcnamee challenge under the new rules.

[BennyHarp]

It isn't a black just because the player is brought down. I saw the match but missed the penalty so I don't know whether it was a black card or not but if the ref deemed the goalkeeper to be attempting to tackle or block a shot then he shouldn't have been black carded.

Btw, neither of the Dublin high tackles were black cards and it is clear many people haven't a clue what is or isn't a black card.

I know under the current rules it isnt a black card.
My point is, when they were bringing in a something as drastic as the balck card to combat cyncial play, why is it not???
He deliberately pulled the player back high round the neck in order to stop his progress, no attempt whatsoever was made to tackle the ball.
It just seems a huge inconstancy to me.
If anything the mcmanamon one was worse than any of the others mentioned as it was both dangerous & cynical, yet doesn't warrant the same punishment as the mcnamee challenge under the new rules.

+1. I can possibly guarantee that a player will get black carded for an offence like one of those high tackles during the championship. What if the player is baring down on goal and that tackle occurs?

[orangeman]

Dublin are taking full advantage of the new rules. Stop them whatever way you like but make sure that you stand them up in whatever "tackle" you attempt.

Dublin are thinking outside the box all the time. They've a serious back room team and nothing is left to chance. Dublin's Sam etc to lose.

[Zulu]

I'd have to watch them again but I didn't view either of the Dublin high tackles as particularly cynical and I felt both were attempts at tackles albeit poor enough ones. Players often hold the ball around chest height when taking a tackle so it isn't surprising that the tacklers arm can end up around the player in possessions neck. I don't think they deserve to be black cards and quite often I don't think they are yellow as it is unintentional and not dangerous as opposed to the clothesline type of tackle which certainly deserves a yellow.

[blewuporstuffed]

I'd have to watch them again but I didn't view either of the Dublin high tackles as particularly cynical and I felt both were attempts at tackles albeit poor enough ones. Players often hold the ball around chest height when taking a tackle so it isn't surprising that the tacklers arm can end up around the player in possessions neck. I don't think they deserve to be black cards and quite often I don't think they are yellow as it is unintentional and not dangerous as opposed to the clothesline type of tackle which certainly deserves a yellow.

while i agree with what you are saying, it is very easy for a tackle to end up high accidentally, i certainly feel the mcmennamon one was cynical as he continued to pull donnelly back.
It justs eems a bit of an inconsistency in the rules to me.

[Champion The Wonder Horse]

Dublin are taking full advantage of the new rules. Stop them whatever way you like but make sure that you stand them up in whatever "tackle" you attempt.

Dublin are thinking outside the box all the time. They've a serious back room team and nothing is left to chance. Dublin's Sam etc to lose.

That's it in a nutshell. Dublin had that sussed before a ball was kicked this year.

[easytiger95]

they were probably left out of the original black card offences because of the prevalence of attackers holding defenders arms when they come over the shoulder and buying frees (not saying that happened in either of the incidents being discussed here)

[screenexile]

Dublin are taking full advantage of the new rules. Stop them whatever way you like but make sure that you stand them up in whatever "tackle" you attempt.

Dublin are thinking outside the box all the time. They've a serious back room team and nothing is left to chance. Dublin's Sam etc to lose.

That's it in a nutshell. Dublin had that sussed before a ball was kicked this year.

Didn't do them much good in Celtic Park... yeeeeooooo!