All Ireland senior football final 2012 Donegal v Mayo

[Lar Naparka]

Personally, i don't think Brolly's comments had anything to do with the two Mayo players getting booked in the first couple of minutes, Referees are never influenced by the Media. And besides the comments were made on a Wednesday afternoon, not enough time for the referee do dwell on or eek into the subconscious. The same comments were made by McGuinness about Kildare in the AI QF in 2011, so i don't see the big deal. It's just idle comment!

I think Brolly knew exactly what he was doing.

However I also agree with Stephenite, Horan should say nothing until he has won Sam. Until then we are the easy target for the likes of Brolly.

I believe a back room coach from Mayo should have came out publicly on the Thursday and upped the anti on Brolly statement saying he was influencing the refereeing and call the referees bluff. 

Would've looked a bit silly & hypocritical after what was said before the semi-final.

It is one thing expressing concern regarding the appointment of a referee with a history of controversy involving your team, e.g. this goes on all the time in soccer, it is a different thing for a supposedly neutral pundit to stick his oar completely in on one side. I understand the Dubs being a bit sensitive on this but it wasn't an action against them, it was a genuine problem with a particular ref.

Brolly's was an attack on one of the teams, it didn't matter who the ref was, his agenda was against Mayo.

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

Would you mind telling me Heffo, where the hypocrisy is?
I see no connection whatever between Joe Brolly going on a one-man campaign to vilify Mayo's style of play and some other commentators reacting to specific incidents.
It would be stretching the imagination, well, mine anyway, to say that O'Rourke, McStay or anyone one else was deliberately trying to influence any referee's decisions.
O'Rourke in his own droll way can be very sarcastic at times and he has had more goes at Mayo down the years than he's had at Dublin and at the time he said this, the Dubs were gettin' bet out the gate.
Sarcastic yes but deliberate policy to influence any ref at any time. Hardly, IMO.
Brolly had a lot more to say about Mayo's game plan than he said on TSG, a damn sight worse.
There was nothing cynical or premeditated about the wild, clumsy tackles a number of Mato players put in in the Dubs' match or in the AI either. I'm not making excuses for any of them but if Brolly is to be believed, mayo have taken cynicism to a new level.
Brolly was very critical of Donegal's tactics in 2011 and he lampooned the Dubs as 'the nearly men' when they imploded year after year before making the breakthrough in 2011.
No other commentator/pundit I know of ever went to the same length as Brolly to  demonise any team he takes a dislike to.
In Mayo's case this year, he is the only one I can recall who accused them of adopting a cynical, pre-planned policy of deliberately fouling as part of their overall approach.

[RMDrive]

There was nothing cynical or premeditated about the wild, clumsy tackles a number of Mato players put in in the Dubs' match or in the AI either.

*ahem*
So there was nothing premeditated to the fact that Mark McHugh, Karl Lacey and Michael Murphy all got "wild, clumsy" tackles in the opening period of the AI final?
Nothing wrong with trying to lay down your marker IMO, but don't pretend that it's a coincidence that our best players are the ones that shipped these fouls.

[heffo]

Personally, i don't think Brolly's comments had anything to do with the two Mayo players getting booked in the first couple of minutes, Referees are never influenced by the Media. And besides the comments were made on a Wednesday afternoon, not enough time for the referee do dwell on or eek into the subconscious. The same comments were made by McGuinness about Kildare in the AI QF in 2011, so i don't see the big deal. It's just idle comment!

I think Brolly knew exactly what he was doing.

However I also agree with Stephenite, Horan should say nothing until he has won Sam. Until then we are the easy target for the likes of Brolly.

I believe a back room coach from Mayo should have came out publicly on the Thursday and upped the anti on Brolly statement saying he was influencing the refereeing and call the referees bluff. 

Would've looked a bit silly & hypocritical after what was said before the semi-final.

It is one thing expressing concern regarding the appointment of a referee with a history of controversy involving your team, e.g. this goes on all the time in soccer, it is a different thing for a supposedly neutral pundit to stick his oar completely in on one side. I understand the Dubs being a bit sensitive on this but it wasn't an action against them, it was a genuine problem with a particular ref.

Brolly's was an attack on one of the teams, it didn't matter who the ref was, his agenda was against Mayo.

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

Would you mind telling me Heffo, where the hypocrisy is?
I see no connection whatever between Joe Brolly going on a one-man campaign to vilify Mayo's style of play and some other commentators reacting to specific incidents.
It would be stretching the imagination, well, mine anyway, to say that O'Rourke, McStay or anyone one else was deliberately trying to influence any referee's decisions.
O'Rourke in his own droll way can be very sarcastic at times and he has had more goes at Mayo down the years than he's had at Dublin and at the time he said this, the Dubs were gettin' bet out the gate.
Sarcastic yes but deliberate policy to influence any ref at any time. Hardly, IMO.
Brolly had a lot more to say about Mayo's game plan than he said on TSG, a damn sight worse.
There was nothing cynical or premeditated about the wild, clumsy tackles a number of Mato players put in in the Dubs' match or in the AI either. I'm not making excuses for any of them but if Brolly is to be believed, mayo have taken cynicism to a new level.
Brolly was very critical of Donegal's tactics in 2011 and he lampooned the Dubs as 'the nearly men' when they imploded year after year before making the breakthrough in 2011.
No other commentator/pundit I know of ever went to the same length as Brolly to  demonise any team he takes a dislike to.
In Mayo's case this year, he is the only one I can recall who accused them of adopting a cynical, pre-planned policy of deliberately fouling as part of their overall approach.

The hypocricy (in my opinion) is on the one hand getting local Mayo journalists to ask you soft questions so you can raise the issue of Joe McQuillan, put pressure on the referee ahead of the Semi-final and get the desired result. The talk was all over the media (ignoring his performance when he reffed us v Tyrone in 2010 and he gave them a staggering amount of undeserved frees + the fact he should have given a penalty for Brosnan handling on the ground).

Then whinging when someone else uses the media or his position in the media to attempt to influence a referee.

Exact same thing in my opinion.

This isn't the supreme court - Brolly and the rest of them are never neutral.

[Lar Naparka]

There was nothing cynical or premeditated about the wild, clumsy tackles a number of Mato players put in in the Dubs' match or in the AI either.

*ahem*
So there was nothing premeditated to the fact that Mark McHugh, Karl Lacey and Michael Murphy all got "wild, clumsy" tackles in the opening period of the AI final?
Nothing wrong with trying to lay down your marker IMO, but don't pretend that it's a coincidence that our best players are the ones that shipped these fouls.

And *ahem* to you also.

Donegal started at a blistering pace and had gone 2-01 up after a few minutes. Mayo were lucky it wasn't 3-01 to nil before they got off their marks. Memories of '04 and '06 were on their minds and the whole lot of them were at panic stations before they got into the game at all.

Mark McHugh, Karl Lacey and Michael Murphy all got "wild, clumsy" tackles in that  opening period because they were running their markers ragged and their tackles too place in full view of the referee. There was nothing pre-planned or coordinated in them. It was a case of everyman for himself.

[muppet]

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

But Brolly wasn't on the Sunday Game, he did it on a Wednesday.

[heffo]

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

But Brolly wasn't on the Sunday Game, he did it on a Wednesday.

Whether he did it from a pulpit, his Gaelic life column or The Mail on Sunday - the principle is still the same imo.

Manipulate the media for your own purposes ahead of the semi-final.

Complain when someone else does the same ahead of the final.

[muppet]

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

But Brolly wasn't on the Sunday Game, he did it on a Wednesday.

Whether he did it from a pulpit, his Gaelic life column or The Mail on Sunday - the principle is still the same imo.

Manipulate the media for your own purposes ahead of the semi-final.

Complain when someone else does the same ahead of the final.

Ok, so what were Brolly's purposes for manipulating the media before the game?

[heffo]

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

But Brolly wasn't on the Sunday Game, he did it on a Wednesday.

Whether he did it from a pulpit, his Gaelic life column or The Mail on Sunday - the principle is still the same imo.

Manipulate the media for your own purposes ahead of the semi-final.

Complain when someone else does the same ahead of the final.

Ok, so what were Brolly's purposes for manipulating the media before the game?

Couldn't tell you - maybe he wanted an Ulster team to win, maybe he just doesn't like Mayo.

The end result was the same. Hence my opinion of wherein lies the hypocricy.

[Lar Naparka]

The hypocricy (in my opinion) is on the one hand getting local Mayo journalists to ask you soft questions so you can raise the issue of Joe McQuillan, put pressure on the referee ahead of the Semi-final and get the desired result. The talk was all over the media (ignoring his performance when he reffed us v Tyrone in 2010 and he gave them a staggering amount of undeserved frees + the fact he should have given a penalty for Brosnan handling on the ground).

Then whinging when someone else uses the media or his position in the media to attempt to influence a referee.

Exact same thing in my opinion.

This isn't the supreme court - Brolly and the rest of them are never neutral.

That's fair enough, IMO.
Joe Mac did get a fair bit of stick not only from Mayo people but from a lot of other also before that semi.
However, I don't recall Horan or any of the Mayo management going public about their reservations before that game. Maybe they did but I wouldn't have agreed with them if that was the case. I'm not referring only to what Brolly had to say about Mayo's tactics during the Dublin match.
He was really quite vicious and gratuitously insulting in his reviews of the final in the Sindo and in the Derry Journal.
He had a right go at Alan Dillon in particular. Dillon, according to him, lacked moral fibre. He never showed up for the game and he and a habit of disappearing in every game when the pressure came on.
He was "a craven Mayo stereotype."  O'Rourke on the other hand in his piece in the Sindo, praised Mayo's efforts in the first half to get back into the game after the dreadful start and mentioned Dillon as one who took the fight to Donegal. Eugene McGee was another who praised Dillon's efforts also. I can't think offhand of any other but I have yet to see anyone of note who feels the whole goddamn lot are a bunch of cynical, whining losers.
In spite of Brolly's opinion of him, Dillon went on to win an All-Star.

[muppet]

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

But Brolly wasn't on the Sunday Game, he did it on a Wednesday.

Whether he did it from a pulpit, his Gaelic life column or The Mail on Sunday - the principle is still the same imo.

Manipulate the media for your own purposes ahead of the semi-final.

Complain when someone else does the same ahead of the final.

Ok, so what were Brolly's purposes for manipulating the media before the game?

Couldn't tell you - maybe he wanted an Ulster team to win, maybe he just doesn't like Mayo.

The end result was the same. Hence my opinion of wherein lies the hypocricy.

I note that you are not arguing against his bias. Interesting. Can I take it you agree he was biased?

[heffo]

Pundits on TSG aren't neutral though - neither are commentators.

E.g - Colm O'Rourke - Dublin will be beaten and their fans will be in the pub in time to watch their second favourite team play Ecquador

E.g - Kevin McStay - 'Oh no, no, no, he can't, I can't believe he's doing this, he's given Dublin a free

I can give a thousand more example too to bias from pundits and commentators.

The end result is the same - putting pressure on a referee ahead of a game to acheive a particular result. You can't have it both ways.

I don't believe Dubs are the least bit sensitive on the issue - Mayo won fair and square. Just pointing out the hypocricy.

But Brolly wasn't on the Sunday Game, he did it on a Wednesday.

Whether he did it from a pulpit, his Gaelic life column or The Mail on Sunday - the principle is still the same imo.

Manipulate the media for your own purposes ahead of the semi-final.

Complain when someone else does the same ahead of the final.

Ok, so what were Brolly's purposes for manipulating the media before the game?

Couldn't tell you - maybe he wanted an Ulster team to win, maybe he just doesn't like Mayo.

The end result was the same. Hence my opinion of wherein lies the hypocricy.

I note that you are not arguing against his bias. Interesting. Can I take it you agree he was biased?

I've no opinion on whether he's biased or not.

My contribution to the thread was the hypocricy of Horan.

[muppet]

I've no opinion on whether he's biased or not.

My contribution to the thread was the hypocricy of Horan.

"It was endemic throughout the field. It was seriously disruptive. It is a matter for them how they choose to play. It is, though cynical fouling. I'm talking about tactical fouls. That is supposed to be a yellow card offence.

I guess Horan took quotes like the above personally. I think I would too.

[heffo]

I've no opinion on whether he's biased or not.

My contribution to the thread was the hypocricy of Horan.

"It was endemic throughout the field. It was seriously disruptive. It is a matter for them how they choose to play. It is, though cynical fouling. I'm talking about tactical fouls. That is supposed to be a yellow card offence.

I guess Horan took quotes like the above personally. I think I would too.

Not sure why he would. Most counties cynically foul and haul down players. Dublin included. Don't think anyone who engages or sends a team out to cynically foul would take criticism of it personally.

The crux of his point (and my response to it) was Horan complaining about referee's being influenced ahead of games by a section of the media.

[muppet]

I've no opinion on whether he's biased or not.

My contribution to the thread was the hypocricy of Horan.

"It was endemic throughout the field. It was seriously disruptive. It is a matter for them how they choose to play. It is, though cynical fouling. I'm talking about tactical fouls. That is supposed to be a yellow card offence.

I guess Horan took quotes like the above personally. I think I would too.

Not sure why he would. Most counties cynically foul and haul down players. Dublin included. Don't think anyone who engages or sends a team out to cynically foul would take criticism of it personally.

The crux of his point (and my response to it) was Horan complaining about referee's being influenced ahead of games by a section of the media.

If that is true, can you explain Brolly's outburst then?

[heffo]

I've no opinion on whether he's biased or not.

My contribution to the thread was the hypocricy of Horan.

"It was endemic throughout the field. It was seriously disruptive. It is a matter for them how they choose to play. It is, though cynical fouling. I'm talking about tactical fouls. That is supposed to be a yellow card offence.

I guess Horan took quotes like the above personally. I think I would too.

Not sure why he would. Most counties cynically foul and haul down players. Dublin included. Don't think anyone who engages or sends a team out to cynically foul would take criticism of it personally.

The crux of his point (and my response to it) was Horan complaining about referee's being influenced ahead of games by a section of the media.

If that is true, can you explain Brolly's outburst then?

I've no time or interest in doing so.

I made the point about the hypocricy and I believe have backed up and demonstrated that.

You can agree or disagree with that point.