Are Michael O Neill and Gerry Armstong Off Their Heads??

[LeoMc]

There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry.  Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that

"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".

Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.

It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.

In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.

I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.

If the Republican nominee was himself a GAA member you'd have just made a relevant contribution to the thread. As it is, you haven't. 

No more of a stretch than your linking the GAA to your made up statement that Unionits are not proper Irish men. I could have asked for the GAA's opinions on the Iranian oil embargo (backed by GAA member Enda Kenny) but I was keeping in the spirit of your half baked attempts to link statements from a journalist paid to make sell papers by being controversial with an avowed non-political organisation.

PS I assume the Law Society are in agreement with Joes column and the DEL are in agreement with Jarlaths as neither have condemned it.

[screenexile]

It's an opinion piece! Brolly is a hardened Republican and those are his views on the Northern Ireland team. There are vast chunks of people that feel the same way. His column is in no way worse than you suggesting that GAA folk believe you are not an Irishman unless you follow Gaelic Sports/Speak the language/enjoy the music etc. (you have accused Burns and Brolly of holding this viewpoint yet given no supporting evidence).

Personally I think you are over reacting. If you know Brolly you have to realise that in amongst all his hyperbole he has a basic point. A lot of Catholics aren't going to play for NI for a multitude of reasons!

His sole purpose is to wind people up, be they from Tyrone or from a Unionist/Loyalist background and anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt!

[Myles Na G.]

There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry.  Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that

"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".

Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.

It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.

In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.

I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.

If the Republican nominee was himself a GAA member you'd have just made a relevant contribution to the thread. As it is, you haven't. 

No more of a stretch than your linking the GAA to your made up statement that Unionits are not proper Irish men. I could have asked for the GAA's opinions on the Iranian oil embargo (backed by GAA member Enda Kenny) but I was keeping in the spirit of your half baked attempts to link statements from a journalist paid to make sell papers by being controversial with an avowed non-political organisation.

PS I assume the Law Society are in agreement with Joes column and the DEL are in agreement with Jarlaths as neither have condemned it.

If Brolly had penned an offensive piece for the Law Society Times or some such, or if Burns had appeared regularly on BBC tv commenting on DEL matters, you might have a point. Again, however, you're wide of the mark. Likewise, Enda Kenny may be a GAA member, but he doesn't appear regularly in print or on the screen as a GAA pundit.

[Myles Na G.]

There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry.  Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that

"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".

Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.

It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.

In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.

You really ought to stop digging yourself into this particular pit of bizarre prejudice and narrow-mindedness. Stupidity, while possibly an explanation, is not a valid defence.

If you say so...

[Applesisapples]

Brolly was giving an opinion which he is entitled to do. In fact a lot of what he says would go for many others in the North. It is a fact that a sizeable majority of Catholic/Nationalists/Republicans view the ROI as their national team. Some of them take a benign and even supportive view of NI, but the Union flags and the anthems do not represent the whole community in the north and if the IFA view this as part of their identity then why change it, but by the same token don't complain when some choose to declare for their National Team.
In relation to the GAA it is, as has been stated elsewhere an Irish Cultural and Sporting Organisation committed to the promotion of our language, sport and culture, it has an Irish Nationalist ethos and what is wrong with that? To my mind you can't seperate this from identity, that is not to say that we shouldn't encourage non nationalists to participate, if they support the organisations ideals. This does not make it bigoted or sectarian any more so than Aussie Rules or American football.
Unionists have every right to be consider Irish if they choose and this should not be diluted by any allegience they have to the Union. To my mind the people who most often describe Unionists as not being Irish are themselves. Although it must be said that at times some Nationalists/Republicans do push an exclusive brand of Irishness designed to freeze them out.

[LeoMc]

There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry.  Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that

"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".

Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.

It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.

In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.

I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.

If the Republican nominee was himself a GAA member you'd have just made a relevant contribution to the thread. As it is, you haven't. 

No more of a stretch than your linking the GAA to your made up statement that Unionits are not proper Irish men. I could have asked for the GAA's opinions on the Iranian oil embargo (backed by GAA member Enda Kenny) but I was keeping in the spirit of your half baked attempts to link statements from a journalist paid to make sell papers by being controversial with an avowed non-political organisation.

PS I assume the Law Society are in agreement with Joes column and the DEL are in agreement with Jarlaths as neither have condemned it.

If Brolly had penned an offensive piece for the Law Society Times or some such, or if Burns had appeared regularly on BBC tv commenting on DEL matters, you might have a point. Again, however, you're wide of the mark. Likewise, Enda Kenny may be a GAA member, but he doesn't appear regularly in print or on the screen as a GAA pundit.

In neither case are they representing the GAA. Neither Gaelic Life nor the BBC who pay them for their views are controlled by the GAA. Perhaps you should take up your issue with those 2 organisations instead.

Anyway that is enough from me. I don't usually react to WUM's.

[Main Street]

You'd think that every man and their dog would knows that Joe Brolly is not a GAA official.
But we have all known for years that Myles naG started out here  putting lies to pen with the zeal of a fanatic.


back to Joe's article

The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.

Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'

True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.

When Jimmy Quinn's exquisite volley put the home team one up, the stand rocked to chants of 'Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' and 'Trick or Treat.'
That was over 18 years ago.
The stands didn't rock to that Joe.  Though I was only listening to the game on radio, whatever went down in the cauldron of hate that night, if there were chants of Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil'  the stands were not rocking to it. Most popular that night- racist abuse to the black players, a constant torrent of racist and foul sectarian abuse, Billy Boys, The Sash every 5 minutes, GSTQ /No surrender and when Jimmy Quinn scored, afair, the crowd broke into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.

It is only nine years ago that Neil Lennon was hounded out of the national team by death threats from the Loyalist Volunteer Force
Undisputed fact.

Rewind a decade to George Best's testimonial at Windsor. That night, every time Roy Aitken the great Celtic captain touched the ball, the stand erupted in a frenzy of hate
That frenzy of hate can be heard on a  documentary about Georgie which included a lot of footage from that game

The extent of the problem is illustrated in the simple fact that a catholic minded to support the 'North' can't even go for a drink with his fellow fans ..... one night in 1992 etc
I doubt that what existed 20 years ago is anywhere near as real for today.

Nigel Worthington, during his tenure as Northern Ireland manager, described the notion of a citizen from the 'north' declaring for the 'south' as 'ludicrous' and 'a loophole.'
Graham Luney, an influential journalist who writes for the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph wrote: 'We cannot afford to carry passengers who are dreaming of wearing the colours of another national team. Let players chase other countries if they want to.His newspaper routinely refers to the 'Londonderry-born McClean' and the 'Londonderry-born Duffy'

Undisputed facts

[Orangemac]

Michael O'Neill has always came across as one of the brighter managers around and I doubt he would want any player who doesn't want to play for the North. If rules came in to stop underage players changing national team at senior level then a lot of players may decide to play no international football rather than for Northern Ireland.

If certain things changed such as a move away from Windsor park and God Save the Queen not being played before games then it may be more attractive for some people to play for the North.

[mylestheslasher]

Myles na g , you really haven't a notion do you. When James Lawson gives an opinion do we take that to be the position of the English fa. I suppose George hook is a spokesman for the irfu? Jesus man, cop yourself on before you make an even bigger idiot out of yourself.

[MW]

You'd think that every man and their dog would knows that Joe Brolly is not a GAA official.
But we have all known for years that Myles naG started out here  putting lies to pen with the zeal of a fanatic.


back to Joe's article

The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.

Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'

True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.

But that's not what he said, though, is it? He quotes the lyrics (if you can call them that) of the song in full at the start of his article and refers to it as "the unofficial Northern Ireland supporters anthem" - which is garbage. You simply will not hear it at a NI match, that thankfully having been stamped out over a decade ago now, and if any song could be called the "unofficial NI supporters anthem", it would be "We're Not Brazil", or perhaps "We'll Support You Evermore", or (until the rugby boys nicked it) "Stand up for the Ulstermen".

This cuts to the heart of what Brolly's article is - a pretty spiteful, bigoted, ill-informed piece which reflects poorly on him as being rather prejudiced and also reflects very poorly on the Derry Journal for promoting what pretty much amounts to hate speech.

BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.

When Jimmy Quinn's exquisite volley put the home team one up, the stand rocked to chants of 'Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' and 'Trick or Treat.'
That was over 18 years ago.
The stands didn't rock to that Joe.  Though I was only listening to the game on radio, whatever went down in the cauldron of hate that night, if there were chants of Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil'  the stands were not rocking to it. Most popular that night- racist abuse to the black players, a constant torrent of racist and foul sectarian abuse, Billy Boys, The Sash every 5 minutes, GSTQ /No surrender and when Jimmy Quinn scored, afair, the crowd broke into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.

In large part fair comment (from you, not Brolly!). Though from my own memory after Quinn's goal the stadium "rocked" to "Here We Go" (now there's the unofficial NI supporters' anthem of the 1980s) and then "One Team in Ireland"! That supposed "Greysteel 7 Ireland 0" chant was a fictional episode written by Marie Jones (doesn't even have any internal logic within its sick parameters, I've always thought). (There is some youtube footage of the two goals and the final whistle - from first listen the only chant that's actually audible enough to make out is "Nor-thern Ire-land" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9Bt18Rvv4).

On the "cauldron of hate" stuff - yes, there was some pretty awful sectarian and indeed racist stuff that night, accompanied by other less offensive but politically slanted "party songs" (in the old sense of the term, not as in party hats). Not acceptable in any shape or form and pretty damn ugly. However a lot of non-football commentators mixed this in with the hostility which is actually part and parcel of many football matches of various kinds of rivalry - booing, "England rejects", or "Judas" directed at Kernaghan.

As you say, it was 18 years ago, the mass murderers of the previous month's atrocities have long since been released from prison, yet this football match with some offensive chanting is still cast up as some sort of trump card. And the richest part of all is, Brolly has to take a completely fictional element of the whole thing and pass it off as actually having happened. He's pedlling a lie, in pursuit of a rather bitter-sounding agenda.

It is only nine years ago that Neil Lennon was hounded out of the national team by death threats from the Loyalist Volunteer Force
Undisputed fact.

But what point is he making with it?

Rewind a decade to George Best's testimonial at Windsor. That night, every time Roy Aitken the great Celtic captain touched the ball, the stand erupted in a frenzy of hate
That frenzy of hate can be heard on a  documentary about Georgie which included a lot of footage from that game

This was back in the 1980s, before I even started going to football matches. However there's quite a lot of footage of the match on youtube, and "frenzy of hate" really doesn't seem apt from what I've seen:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jRtvP6fTwk and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84BKypnQZk (PS check out a young Michael O'Neill - and Liam Brady's reception)

The extent of the problem is illustrated in the simple fact that a catholic minded to support the 'North' can't even go for a drink with his fellow fans ..... one night in 1992 etc
I doubt that what existed 20 years ago is anywhere near as real for today.

There's been plenty of stunned and incredulous reaction from this bit from IL and LOI fans of many stripes on Irish League supporters' forums!

Nigel Worthington, during his tenure as Northern Ireland manager, described the notion of a citizen from the 'north' declaring for the 'south' as 'ludicrous' and 'a loophole.'
Graham Luney, an influential journalist who writes for the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph wrote: 'We cannot afford to carry passengers who are dreaming of wearing the colours of another national team. Let players chase other countries if they want to.His newspaper routinely refers to the 'Londonderry-born McClean' and the 'Londonderry-born Duffy'

Undisputed facts

The "Londonderry-born" bit is simply a BT style issue (Londonderry first, Derry every time thereafter) combined with a (rather repetitive) admittedly habit of referring to players' birthplaces as a means of providing a convenient adjective to jazz up an sentence. That "largely Protestant" bit is a bit of an ugly formulation, in my opinion.

In summary: Brolly seems to have toyed with a central thrust along the lines of nationalists' identity being much more compatible with the Republic of Ireland team than the Northern Ireland team. But, evidently, this wasn't enough for him and he had to go down a more spiteful route of smearing the NI support with half-truths and downright lies.

Actually, even on the identity stuff he cocks up, such as here: "Everton's Shane Duffy, for example, was brought up in Derry City and played Gaelic football for Doire Colmcille. He is an Irishman, not a Northerner. Which is why he has repeatedly stated he will never play for Northern Ireland". Duffy in fact played for the NI u-16, u-17, u-19, u-21 and B international teams, and was actually an unused substitute for the full international team. (Also, I don't see the relevance of the Doire Colmcille reference - I wonder would the club thank him for that one...)

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

You'd think that every man and their dog would knows that Joe Brolly is not a GAA official.
But we have all known for years that Myles naG started out here  putting lies to pen with the zeal of a fanatic.


back to Joe's article

The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.

Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'

True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.

But that's not what he said, though, is it? He quotes the lyrics (if you can call them that) of the song in full at the start of his article and refers to it as "the unofficial Northern Ireland supporters anthem" - which is garbage. You simply will not hear it at a NI match, that thankfully having been stamped out over a decade ago now, and if any song could be called the "unofficial NI supporters anthem", it would be "We're Not Brazil", or perhaps "We'll Support You Evermore", or (until the rugby boys nicked it) "Stand up for the Ulstermen".

This cuts to the heart of what Brolly's article is - a pretty spiteful, bigoted, ill-informed piece which reflects poorly on him as being rather prejudiced and also reflects very poorly on the Derry Journal for promoting what pretty much amounts to hate speech.

BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.

When Jimmy Quinn's exquisite volley put the home team one up, the stand rocked to chants of 'Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' and 'Trick or Treat.'
That was over 18 years ago.
The stands didn't rock to that Joe.  Though I was only listening to the game on radio, whatever went down in the cauldron of hate that night, if there were chants of Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil'  the stands were not rocking to it. Most popular that night- racist abuse to the black players, a constant torrent of racist and foul sectarian abuse, Billy Boys, The Sash every 5 minutes, GSTQ /No surrender and when Jimmy Quinn scored, afair, the crowd broke into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.

In large part fair comment (from you, not Brolly!). Though from my own memory after Quinn's goal the stadium "rocked" to "Here We Go" (now there's the unofficial NI supporters' anthem of the 1980s) and then "One Team in Ireland"! That supposed "Greysteel 7 Ireland 0" chant was a fictional episode written by Marie Jones (doesn't even have any internal logic within its sick parameters, I've always thought). (There is some youtube footage of the two goals and the final whistle - from first listen the only chant that's actually audible enough to make out is "Nor-thern Ire-land" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9Bt18Rvv4).

On the "cauldron of hate" stuff - yes, there was some pretty awful sectarian and indeed racist stuff that night, accompanied by other less offensive but politically slanted "party songs" (in the old sense of the term, not as in party hats). Not acceptable in any shape or form and pretty damn ugly. However a lot of non-football commentators mixed this in with the hostility which is actually part and parcel of many football matches of various kinds of rivalry - booing, "England rejects", or "Judas" directed at Kernaghan.

As you say, it was 18 years ago, the mass murderers of the previous month's atrocities have long since been released from prison, yet this football match with some offensive chanting is still cast up as some sort of trump card. And the richest part of all is, Brolly has to take a completely fictional element of the whole thing and pass it off as actually having happened. He's pedlling a lie, in pursuit of a rather bitter-sounding agenda.

It is only nine years ago that Neil Lennon was hounded out of the national team by death threats from the Loyalist Volunteer Force
Undisputed fact.

But what point is he making with it?

Rewind a decade to George Best's testimonial at Windsor. That night, every time Roy Aitken the great Celtic captain touched the ball, the stand erupted in a frenzy of hate
That frenzy of hate can be heard on a  documentary about Georgie which included a lot of footage from that game

This was back in the 1980s, before I even started going to football matches. However there's quite a lot of footage of the match on youtube, and "frenzy of hate" really doesn't seem apt from what I've seen:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jRtvP6fTwk and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84BKypnQZk (PS check out a young Michael O'Neill - and Liam Brady's reception)

The extent of the problem is illustrated in the simple fact that a catholic minded to support the 'North' can't even go for a drink with his fellow fans ..... one night in 1992 etc
I doubt that what existed 20 years ago is anywhere near as real for today.

There's been plenty of stunned and incredulous reaction from this bit from IL and LOI fans of many stripes on Irish League supporters' forums!

Nigel Worthington, during his tenure as Northern Ireland manager, described the notion of a citizen from the 'north' declaring for the 'south' as 'ludicrous' and 'a loophole.'
Graham Luney, an influential journalist who writes for the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph wrote: 'We cannot afford to carry passengers who are dreaming of wearing the colours of another national team. Let players chase other countries if they want to.His newspaper routinely refers to the 'Londonderry-born McClean' and the 'Londonderry-born Duffy'

Undisputed facts

The "Londonderry-born" bit is simply a BT style issue (Londonderry first, Derry every time thereafter) combined with a (rather repetitive) admittedly habit of referring to players' birthplaces as a means of providing a convenient adjective to jazz up an sentence. That "largely Protestant" bit is a bit of an ugly formulation, in my opinion.

In summary: Brolly seems to have toyed with a central thrust along the lines of nationalists' identity being much more compatible with the Republic of Ireland team than the Northern Ireland team. But, evidently, this wasn't enough for him and he had to go down a more spiteful route of smearing the NI support with half-truths and downright lies.

Actually, even on the identity stuff he cocks up, such as here: "Everton's Shane Duffy, for example, was brought up in Derry City and played Gaelic football for Doire Colmcille. He is an Irishman, not a Northerner. Which is why he has repeatedly stated he will never play for Northern Ireland". Duffy in fact played for the NI u-16, u-17, u-19, u-21 and B international teams, and was actually an unused substitute for the full international team. (Also, I don't see the relevance of the Doire Colmcille reference - I wonder would the club thank him for that one...)

You can stop your wondering now because I can tell you the club would thank him, why wouldnt they, NI football supporters are like hens teeth in Derry City

[MW]

It suggests that playing for Doire Colmcille is self-evidently incompatible with going on to play international football for Northern Ireland (or even seeing oneself as a "Northerner"...? not a label I ascribe to anyway but still...). I know literally nothing about the club he mentions but it's not an entirely helpful impression he manages to give.

Also I don't know why you try to pretend it's a geographical reference - actually there are a fair few Northern Ireland fans in Derry/Londonderry.

[trileacman]

If i was good enough I don't think i would play for the Northern Ireland team but that said Joe Brolly is no representative of my views on the matter. His article contains alot of half-truths and heresay.

[Leo]

Such a depressing thread.
Of course some nationalist lads will feel more attuned to ROI, others may be comfortable enough with stcking to the IFA who nutured their early careers..
Cut the base sectarian undertone out of it and let them make thier own minds up.
And for those ultra "Irish" talibanesque righteous fundamentals they would do well to remember that until the FAI decided they wanted their own wee fiefdom (corruption and all)  there was only one football association in Ireland - and it is still the IFA. I would want it otherwise but facts can be uncomfortable.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

It suggests that playing for Doire Colmcille is self-evidently incompatible with going on to play international football for Northern Ireland (or even seeing oneself as a "Northerner"...? not a label I ascribe to anyway but still...). I know literally nothing about the club he mentions but it's not an entirely helpful impression he manages to give.

Also I don't know why you try to pretend it's a geographical reference - actually there are a fair few Northern Ireland fans in Derry/Londonderry.

Your statement suggests that members of DC might be angry with Joe because of their ref to them, my retort was that they wont. My basis for that is that DC are based in the Westbank of Derry which is anout 97% nationalist and where suporting NI is foreign to most people's tastes. They simply won't mind, you really are not in touch with grass roots nationalist opinions in some areas. And on the geographical thingy there are areas where catholics are much less likely to give support to NI than others, Derry would be one of them. Joe refers to this point himself in the article. I stand corrected though on saying NI supporters are like hen's teeth in Derry, I should have clarified that I meant that I was talking about amongst the Cathloic community.