GAA clubs in Debt -RTE

[Orangemac]

in the case of gaa clubs are the trustees responsible personally for any debts that arise?

A trustee in a club is not responsible for club debt by dint of their trustee responsibility.

The president of the Clara GAA club is a Mr. Brian Cowen, I think he has to bear a fair whack of responsibility

Clara should be all right then. The % of Clowens pension that he spends in the bar should cover the loan... moving forward snort.

[redandblackareback]

too many feckers got carried away in the boom, buying jeeps, pick up trucks, houses like sweets and then BOOM!! It was just the way society was 6/7 years ago.. everyone thought it was a bottomless pit!!

[muppet]

too many feckers got carried away in the boom, buying jeeps, pick up trucks, houses like sweets and then BOOM!! It was just the way society was 6/7 years ago.. everyone thought it was a bottomless pit!!

They were right.

[Main Street]

in the case of gaa clubs are the trustees responsible personally for any debts that arise?

A trustee in a club is not responsible for club debt by dint of their trustee responsibility.

r u sure ?
why do the banks request the trustees to sign for the loans in their personal names as trustees
also if the land belongs to the gaa   with the bank having no recourse to it which i doubt ,then why do the banks register charges/mortgages in respect of the club debts against the land which is registered in the names of the trustees

The trustees sign on behalf of the club - the club could hardly sign something itself!

The whole point about being a trustee is your are acting in trust for the club - you own or owe absolutely nothing yourself.

The only way a trustee could be in trouble is if they acted negligently or fraudulently, then the club could probably sue them. For example if a club bought a piece of land for €300k from a brother of a trustee, and it was the trustee who arranged and signed off on it - and now that land is worth €50k and the club has a massive debt it can't afford to service.

I think that is true as long as they are indemnified by the club or someone else (which in fairness you would expect or no sane person would accept the position).

The trustee is indemnified by the club/GAA constitution. Conditional of course, the trustee has to follow the clear procedures outlined in the constitution. A trustee is a trusted person who acts in the interests of the club, following the clear instructions of the board. The board is responsible for decisions, the trustee acts on behalf of the board.

[Hound]

hound-say bank pursue the loan which for talks sake is 2million, clubs assets are sold for 1 million leaving a shortfall of one million, who ponies up balance, I accept that all members are probably  in theory liable( depending on the membership) but I presume that the bank will in theory pursue the trustees as they are the parties to the deed, they cant sue the club necause it is not a legal entity.

Selling the assets of the club is a long way down the line.

Firstly you'd hope that the club is able to make its loan repayments, therefore there is no real concern that the value of the land has halved.

If the club is having trouble meeting payments, then the next step is to restructure and perhaps hope the bank will take the payments over a longer term so each monthly payment is less.

If that doesn't work, then the bank will demand an immediate lump sum, using the threat of taking the club's land. So the club will then need to go on a massive funraising venture, seeking money from members and the wider community - and/or will go cap in hand to the GAA for a handout.

A lot will obviously depend on the original loan arrangements. If it was a full recourse loan, then the bank can go after all the club's assets, not just the land on which it was secured. If it was limited recourse then they can only take the land, and that's the end of the matter. In the former case, the club is dead and finished. In the latter case, the club can continue, perhaps using council grounds.

The bank may also have got guarantees from the GAA (in which case the GAA would be obliged to pay the loan if the club did not meet its payment requirements - not sure if the GAA ever give such guarantees) or from individual club members (this would be the only way a club member or trustee can be liable, and I imagine it would be a rare thing indeed that an individual would go guarantor on such a loan).

Whether you are a member of a GAA club, golf club or any other club, the general rule is that creditors can't go after you if the club can't pay its debts (assuming no personal guarantees). You only lose what you put in (joining fees, membership fees, etc.).