Plan for Mosque near Ground Zero

[Tyrones own]

The problem with this ridiculous analogy is that the Catholic Church didn't have countries invaded by the children they abused, they didn't have their citizens bombed by the victims of pedophilia and they didn't have their enemies armed to the teeth by the innocent children. The children can in no way be accused of provocation.

While Islamic Terrorism is unjustified as is any other terrorism, it is absurd to ignore the role of the USA's foreign policy as a catalyst for Islamic attacks on the USA and its allies.

As I stated many times here, ye lads refuse to leave a stone left unturned in searching out a justification of one kind or another for Islamic terror...
and the deafening silence of it's followers. An eye for an eye is suddenly OK now as an excuse because it's the US making them do it

Now tell me honestly, are ye really actually that naive to believe that if the US pulled up stakes through out the world and brought every
man and woman home tomorrow that the world would be a safer place and or that Muslim extremist would suddenly say ah sure that's that then
...wise up, they need the US as a smoke screen so that they have somebody to blame as they go about their stated intention!

[give her dixie]

If That 'Mosque' ISN'T Built, This Is No Longer America

OpenMike 9/11/10
Michael Moore's daily blog

I am opposed to the building of the "mosque" two blocks from Ground Zero.

I want it built on Ground Zero.

Why? Because I believe in an America that protects those who are the victims of hate and prejudice. I believe in an America that says you have the right to worship whatever God you have, wherever you want to worship. And I believe in an America that says to the world that we are a loving and generous people and if a bunch of murderers steal your religion from you and use it as their excuse to kill 3,000 souls, then I want to help you get your religion back. And I want to put it at the spot where it was stolen from you.

There's been so much that's been said about this manufactured controversy, I really don't want to waste any time on this day of remembrance talking about it. But I hate bigotry and I hate liars, and so in case you missed any of the truth that's been lost in this, let me point out a few facts:

1. I love the Burlington Coat Factory. I've gotten some great winter coats there at a very reasonable price. Muslims have been holding their daily prayers there since 2009. No one ever complained about that. This is not going to be a "mosque," it's going to be a community center. It will have the same prayer room in it that's already there. But to even have to assure people that "it's not going to be mosque" is so offensive, I now wish they would just build a 111-story mosque there. That would be better than the lame and disgusting way the developer has left Ground Zero an empty hole until recently. The remains of over 1,100 people still haven't been found. That site is a sacred graveyard, and to be building another monument to commerce on it is a sacrilege. Why wasn't the entire site turned into a memorial peace park? People died there, and many of their remains are still strewn about, all these years later.

2. Guess who has helped the Muslims organize their plans for this community center? The JEWISH COMMUNITY CENTER of Manhattan! Their rabbi has been advising them since the beginning. It's been a picture-perfect example of the kind of world we all want to live in. Peter Stuyvessant, New York's "founder," tried to expel the first Jews who arrived in Manhattan. Then the Dutch said, no, that's a bit much. So then Stuyvessant said ok, you can stay, but you cannot build a synagogue anywhere in Manhattan. Do your stupid Friday night thing at home. The first Jewish temple was not allowed to be built until 1730. Then there was a revolution, and the founding fathers said this country has to be secular -- no religious nuts or state religions. George Washington (inaugurated around the corner from Ground Zero) wanted to make a statement about this his very first year in office, and wrote this to American Jews:


"The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy -- a policy worthy of imitation. ...


"It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens ...


"May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants -- while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid."

3. The Imam in charge of this project is the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Read about his past here.

4. Around five dozen Muslims died at the World Trade Center on 9/11. Hundreds of members of their families still grieve and suffer. The 19 killers did not care what religion anyone belonged to when they took those lives.

5. I've never read a sadder headline in the New York Times than the one on the front page this past Monday: "American Muslims Ask, Will We Ever Belong?" That should make all of us so ashamed that even a single one of our fellow citizens should ever have to worry about if they "belong" here.

6. There is a McDonald's two blocks from Ground Zero. Trust me, McDonald's has killed far more people than the terrorists.

7. During an economic depression or a time of war, fascists are extremely skilled at whipping up fear and hate and getting the working class to blame "the other" for their troubles. Lincoln's enemies told poor Southern whites that he was "a Catholic." FDR's opponents said he was Jewish and called him "Jewsevelt." One in five Americans now believe Obama is a Muslim and 41% of Republicans don't believe he was born here.

8. Blaming a whole group for the actions of just one of that group is anti-American. Timothy McVeigh was Catholic. Should Oklahoma City prohibit the building of a Catholic Church near the site of the former federal building that McVeigh blew up?

9. Let's face it, all religions have their whackos. Catholics have O'Reilly, Gingrich, Hannity and Clarence Thomas (in fact all five conservatives who dominate the Supreme Court are Catholic). Protestants have Pat Robertson and too many to list here. The Mormons have Glenn Beck. Jews have Crazy Eddie. But we don't judge whole religions on just the actions of their whackos. Unless they're Methodists.

10. If I should ever, God forbid, perish in a terrorist incident, and you or some nutty group uses my death as your justification to attack or discriminate against anyone in my name, I will come back and haunt you worse than Linda Blair marrying Freddy Krueger and moving into your bedroom to spawn Chucky. John Lennon was right when he asked us to imagine a world with "nothing to kill or die for and no religion, too." I heard Deepak Chopra this week say that "God gave humans the truth, and the devil came and he said, 'Let's give it a name and call it religion.' " But John Adams said it best when he wrote a sort of letter to the future (which he called "Posterity"): "Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present Generation to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it." I'm guessing ol' John Adams is up there repenting nonstop right now.

Friends, we all have a responsibility NOW to make sure that Muslim community center gets built. Once again, 70% of the country (the same number that initially supported the Iraq War) is on the wrong side and want the "mosque" moved. Enormous pressure has been put on the Imam to stop his project. We have to turn this thing around. Are we going to let the bullies and thugs win another one? Aren't you fed up by now? When would be a good time to take our country back from the haters?

I say right now. Let's each of us make a statement by donating to the building of this community center! It's a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization and you can donate a dollar or ten dollars (or more) right now through a secure pay pal account by clicking here. I will personally match the first $10,000 raised (forward your PayPal receipt to webguy@michaelmoore.com). If each one of you reading this blog/email donated just a couple of dollars, that would give the center over $6 million, more than what Donald Trump has offered to buy the Imam out. C'mon everyone, let's pitch in and help those who are being debased for simply wanting to do something good. We could all make a huge statement of love on this solemn day.

I lost a co-worker on 9/11. I write this today in his memory.

"The man who speaks of the enemy / Is the enemy himself."
                                                                        -- Bertolt Brecht

[muppet]

The problem with this ridiculous analogy is that the Catholic Church didn't have countries invaded by the children they abused, they didn't have their citizens bombed by the victims of pedophilia and they didn't have their enemies armed to the teeth by the innocent children. The children can in no way be accused of provocation.

While Islamic Terrorism is unjustified as is any other terrorism, it is absurd to ignore the role of the USA's foreign policy as a catalyst for Islamic attacks on the USA and its allies.

As I stated many times here, ye lads refuse to leave a stone left unturned in searching out a justification of one kind or another for Islamic terror...
and the deafening silence of it's followers. An eye for an eye is suddenly OK now as an excuse because it's the US making them do it

Now tell me honestly, are ye really actually that naive to believe that if the US pulled up stakes through out the world and brought every
man and woman home tomorrow that the world would be a safer place and or that Muslim extremist would suddenly say ah sure that's that then
...wise up, they need the US as a smoke screen so that they have somebody to blame as they go about their stated intention!

As usual no one has said anything that you say they have.

No said that if the US ups sticks the extremists would end their terror, have they? Why would anyone debate with you when you argue in your Own parallel universe.

Why do you think the Muslims attacked the US and not say Iceland?

[give her dixie]

US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'


Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies.

Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians.

In one of the most serious accusations of war crimes to emerge from the Afghan conflict, the killings are alleged to have been carried out by members of a Stryker infantry brigade based in Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan.

According to investigators and legal documents, discussion of killing Afghan civilians began after the arrival of Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs at forward operating base Ramrod last November. Other soldiers told the army's criminal investigation command that Gibbs boasted of the things he got away with while serving in Iraq and said how easy it would be to "toss a grenade at someone and kill them".

One soldier said he believed Gibbs was "feeling out the platoon".

Investigators said Gibbs, 25, hatched a plan with another soldier, Jeremy Morlock, 22, and other members of the unit to form a "kill team". While on patrol over the following months they allegedly killed at least three Afghan civilians. According to the charge sheet, the first target was Gul Mudin, who was killed "by means of throwing a fragmentary grenade at him and shooting him with a rifle", when the patrol entered the village of La Mohammed Kalay in January.

Morlock and another soldier, Andrew Holmes, were on guard at the edge of a poppy field when Mudin emerged and stopped on the other side of a wall from the soldiers. Gibbs allegedly handed Morlock a grenade who armed it and dropped it over the wall next to the Afghan and dived for cover. Holmes, 19, then allegedly fired over the wall.

Later in the day, Morlock is alleged to have told Holmes that the killing was for fun and threatened him if he told anyone.

The second victim, Marach Agha, was shot and killed the following month. Gibbs is alleged to have shot him and placed a Kalashnikov next to the body to justify the killing. In May Mullah Adadhdad was killed after being shot and attacked with a grenade.

The Army Times reported that a least one of the soldiers collected the fingers of the victims as souvenirs and that some of them posed for photographs with the bodies.

Five soldiers – Gibbs, Morlock, Holmes, Michael Wagnon and Adam Winfield – are accused of murder and aggravated assault among other charges. All of the soldiers have denied the charges. They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.

The killings came to light in May after the army began investigating a brutal assault on a soldier who told superiors that members of his unit were smoking hashish. The Army Times reported that members of the unit regularly smoked the drug on duty and sometimes stole it from civilians.

The soldier, who was straight out of basic training and has not been named, said he witnessed the smoking of hashish and drinking of smuggled alcohol but initially did not report it out of loyalty to his comrades. But when he returned from an assignment at an army headquarters and discovered soldiers using the shipping container in which he was billeted to smoke hashish he reported it.

Two days later members of his platoon, including Gibbs and Morlock, accused him of "snitching", gave him a beating and told him to keep his mouth shut. The soldier reported the beating and threats to his officers and then told investigators what he knew of the "kill team".

Following the arrest of the original five accused in June, seven other soldiers were charged last month with attempting to cover up the killings and violent assault on the soldier who reported the smoking of hashish. The charges will be considered by a military grand jury later this month which will decide if there is enough evidence for a court martial. Army investigators say Morlock has admitted his involvement in the killings and given details about the role of others including Gibbs. But his lawyer, Michael Waddington, is seeking to have that confession suppressed because he says his client was interviewed while under the influence of prescription drugs taken for battlefield injuries and that he was also suffering from traumatic brain injury.

"Our position is that his statements were incoherent, and taken while he was under a cocktail of drugs that shouldn't have been mixed," Waddington told the Seattle Times

[Tyrones own]

As usual no one has said anything that you say they have.

No said that if the US ups sticks the extremists would end their terror, have they? Why would anyone debate with you when you argue in your Own parallel universe.

My bad... I misunderstood this then;
While Islamic Terrorism is unjustified as is any other terrorism, it is absurd to ignore the role of the USA's foreign policy as a catalyst for Islamic attacks on the USA and its allies.

Why do you think the Muslims attacked the US and not say Iceland?

Is the US the only place they have terrorized the world over?

[Hedley Lamarr]

Don't be shy now TO

[new devil]

I can't get enough of this one

Is that suppose to be funny?

[J70]

I can't get enough of this one

Is that suppose to be funny?

What's with the Air Force One plane? Is this part of the "Imam Obama" or "Obama is a muslim" paranoia coming out of the more insane element of right wing at the moment.

[Tyrones own]

Is this part of the "Imam Obama" or "Obama is a muslim" paranoia coming out of the more insane element of right wing at the moment.

[Tyrones own]

Don't be shy now TO

What..to go off and fight to preserve the Liberty and freedoms that are enjoyed here and then used to undermine
every fiber of this Great Country as we knew it...no thanks, I can get spat at left and right here on
the board without putting on a uniform 

[J70]

Is this part of the "Imam Obama" or "Obama is a muslim" paranoia coming out of the more insane element of right wing at the moment.

The only other meaning I can think of is Obama apparently attacking "freedom".

But ok, please enlighten us as to the meaning of the gif? Or will that go unanswered like the Darwin recantation and the reason why the Park51 mosque people should move their site to respect and show sensitivity people who are labelling them as terrorist sympathisers or supporters, without any apparent justification beyond the fact that they share the same broad religion.

[Hedley Lamarr]

What..to go off and fight to preserve the Liberty and freedoms that are enjoyed here and then used to undermine
every fiber of this Great Country as we knew it...no thanks, I can get spat at left and right here on
the board without putting on a uniform   






It was very easy for Bush and Co to send other people's sons and daughters to war

[muppet]

As usual no one has said anything that you say they have.

No said that if the US ups sticks the extremists would end their terror, have they? Why would anyone debate with you when you argue in your Own parallel universe.

My bad... I misunderstood this then;
While Islamic Terrorism is unjustified as is any other terrorism, it is absurd to ignore the role of the USA's foreign policy as a catalyst for Islamic attacks on the USA and its allies.

Why do you think the Muslims attacked the US and not say Iceland?

Is the US the only place they have terrorized the world over?

If you make every effort to completely ignore and misinterpret every point, why shouldn't I?

We are talking about Muslims and the USA.

Here is a clue. The USA has occupied Afghanistan for 9 years and Iraq for 7. Do you not understand that the locals might be a bit more annoyed with the USA than say Iceland who haven't occupied them for any years? And we haven't even mentioned Israel.

Terrorism is a serious virus for humanity. But the Brits discovered that pulling troops out actually reduced acts of terrorism against them. I find it strange that they haven't taught their allies that might isn't always right.

[Main Street]

I can't get enough of this one

Is that suppose to be funny?

What's with the Air Force One plane? Is this part of the "Imam Obama" or "Obama is a muslim" paranoia coming out of the more insane element of right wing at the moment.

That's way too complicated. Maybe you had forgotten that last year, AIR Force One was sent up in the air to fly around the Statute of Liberty in a photo op.
Apparently not enough people were informed about this.
Obama's director of the military office had to resign over the controversy that resulted.
"The low-flying aircraft scared some people on the ground and in buildings, fearing another 9/11 attack. An F-16 fighter jet, which took the photo, trailed Air Force One in the skies above New York and New Jersey, adding to the drama."

Is that suppose to be funny?

There is no one true humour, humour is subjective, also it depends on time, place and person.
if you don't get it or don't find it funny, no need to give it further thought.
Considering the present day extreme reaction to the prayer house for Muslims, I find that it has a humourous connection.

[muppet]

There is no one true humour, humour is subjective, also it depends on time, place and person.
if you don't get it or don't find it funny, no need to give it further thought.

Funnymentalists like you are danger to society as are all comic extremists.