Plan for Mosque near Ground Zero

[Arthur_Friend]

A U.S. fundamentalist Christian pastor on Thursday called off his plan to burn copies of the Koran on Saturday.

Terry Jones, who heads the tiny, little-known Dove World Outreach Centre church based in the Florida university town of Gainesville, said an agreement had been reached with Muslim leaders to move the controversial location of a planned Islamic cultural centre and mosque in New York.

It would be moved away from the site of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

I don't believe he ever actually intended going through with it... just to tie a bunch of thongs
in a knot, knowing that the media would run with it...pretty genius

Why do you believe that he never actually intended to go through with it? Do you know him personally?

[J70]

he was on CNN last night threatening and inciting retribution for us if the Mosque doesn't go ahead on the proposed location as it will be deemed an insult to the Muslim world!!

He said nothing of the sort. Thankfully people don't have to take your word as gospel on this one.

Imam: Handling of Islamic center plan a matter of national security

Lipstick And Purfume....I've Come To Expect Nothing Less
As Ive Said Before Here But None Of Ye Had The Balls To Touch
it; Its Too Bad The Catholic Church Wasn't Given As Much Latitude
During The Abuse Scandal.
The Self Loathing Anti Christianity On Here Boggles The Mind

Ok, I'll bite...
Why should the catholic church deserve any latitude during the abuse scandal. It is an institution whose staff, including members at high management levels, conspired to cover up and facilitated the sexual abuse of children. The catholic church deserves everything it got and those individuals who collaborated should be facing criminal charges.

Now where are we falling down by comparison with regard to this mosque? Does this sufi brand of Islam have any connection, real or philosophical, to the 9/11 or any other terrorists? Are there any institutional structures within this religion which would bear any responsibility for terrorism or rhetoric fomenting terrorism on the part of its imans, as the catholic hierarchy does for the child abuse? Are there any imans from this sect who have been preaching terrorist jihad? If so, do they have any connection to the proposed mosque? And if not, then what is the connection between these muslims or the Park51 mosque with terrorism?

Its looking more and more like you regard all muslims, by default, as terrorist sympathizers. If that is not the case, then, in the absence of evidence of terrorist links or sympathies, why should these people not build their mosque? If you're going to come back with the sensitivity argument, why should they be sensitive to people who are blaming them for something for which they bear no responsibility? If you have evidence of terrorist links, then, once again, please present them!

[J70]

A U.S. fundamentalist Christian pastor on Thursday called off his plan to burn copies of the Koran on Saturday.

Terry Jones, who heads the tiny, little-known Dove World Outreach Centre church based in the Florida university town of Gainesville, said an agreement had been reached with Muslim leaders to move the controversial location of a planned Islamic cultural centre and mosque in New York.

It would be moved away from the site of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

I don't believe he ever actually intended going through with it... just to tie a bunch of thongs
in a knot, knowing that the media would run with it...pretty genius

Certainly not the media's finest hour... once again! But whatever about them trying to drum this idiot (who is fully within his rights to burn whatever the hell he pleases!) up into a major story, the bigger fools are the likes of Obama weighing in on this. And all the muslims who would be offended by a nothing idiot like Jones. Just like all the catholics, led by the moronic Bill Donoghue in the US, who get their knickers in a twist anytime someone says anything even remotely disrespectful about catholicism.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

A U.S. fundamentalist Christian pastor on Thursday called off his plan to burn copies of the Koran on Saturday.

Typical 'fundamentalist' fcukwit: I would have thought 'Turn the Other Cheek' was somewhat basic Christian Bible!

Not very fundamental at all, well not the the 'funda'* part at least.

* Unless that would be to fund a mosque somewhere other than close to Ground Zero.

[J70]

Man Already Knows Everything He Needs To Know About Muslims

August 30, 2010 | ISSUE 46•35


Gentries made a conscious decision to stop learning anything new about the Muslim faith on May 22, 2005.


SALINA, KS—Local man Scott Gentries told reporters Wednesday that his deliberately limited grasp of Islamic history and culture was still more than sufficient to shape his views of the entire Muslim world.

Gentries, 48, said he had absolutely no interest in exposing himself to further knowledge of Islamic civilization or putting his sweeping opinions into a broader context of any kind, and confirmed he was "perfectly happy" to make a handful of emotionally charged words the basis of his mistrust toward all members of the world's second-largest religion.

"I learned all that really matters about the Muslim faith on 9/11," Gentries said in reference to the terrorist attacks on the United States undertaken by 19 of Islam's approximately 1.6 billion practitioners. "What more do I need to know to stigmatize Muslims everywhere as inherently violent radicals?"

"And now they want to build a mosque at Ground Zero," continued Gentries, eliminating any distinction between the 9/11 hijackers and Muslims in general. "No, I won't examine the accuracy of that statement, but yes, I will allow myself to be outraged by it and use it as evidence of these people's universal callousness toward Americans who lost loved ones when the Twin Towers fell."

"Even though I am not one of those people," he added.

When told that the proposed "Ground Zero mosque" is actually a community center two blocks north of the site that would include, in addition to a public prayer space, a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant, and athletic facilities, Gentries shook his head and said, "I know all I'm going to let myself know."

Gentries explained that it "didn't take long" to find out as much about the tenets of Islam as he needed to. He said he knew Muslims stoned their women for committing adultery, trained for terrorist attacks at fundamentalist madrassas, and believed in jihad, which Gentries described as the thing they used to justify killing infidels.

"All Muslims are at war with America, and I will resist any attempt to challenge that assertion with potentially illuminating facts," said Gentries, who threatened to leave the room if presented with the number of Muslims who live peacefully in the United States, serve in the country's armed forces, or were victims themselves of the 9/11 attacks. "Period."

"If you don't believe me, wait until they put your wife in a burka," Gentries continued in reference to the face-and-body-covering worn by a small minority of Muslim women and banned in the universities of Turkey, Tunisia, and Syria. "Or worse, a rape camp. That's right: For reasons I am content being totally unable to articulate, I am choosing to associate Muslims with rape camps."

Over the past decade, Gentries said he has taken pains to avoid personal interactions or media that might have the potential to compromise his point of view. He told reporters that the closest he had come to confronting a contrary standpoint was tuning in to the first few seconds of an interview with a moderate Muslim cleric before hastily turning off the television.

"I almost gave in and listened to that guy defend Islam with words I didn't want to hear," Gentries said. "But then I remembered how much easier it is to live in a world of black-and-white in which I can assign the label of 'other' to someone and use him as a vessel for all my fears and insecurities."

Added Gentries, "That really put things back into perspective."

http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/

[J70]

NY Times poll of New Yorkers from last week.

The education one is rather interesting...

[Zapatista]

NY Times poll of New Yorkers from last week.

The education one is rather interesting...

I like 'Should Politician outside NY take a stand?

Washington should butt out!

[Tyrones own]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/23/belgian-bishop-admits-molesting-boy

If the abuse terrorism was isolated to one country or region, I would lay the blame locally. When the abuse terrorism is world-wide I would lay the blame at the top.

A slightly altered quote from Muppet on the Clergy abuse thread (makes for interesting reading by the way to shine light on the rabid double standards) kinda sums up my argument here of the hypocrisy between the lynch mob mentality of the Catholic
Church and it's indiscretions by a few, and the deafening silence of the so called moderate muslims the world over in condemning and or denouncing global terror in the name of Islam!
The Catholic Church did indeed take a deserved battering from all walks of life and quite extensively on here  but not surprisingly, that is where the similarities stop
... then again,  when I can't seem to be able to pry a condemnation for said atrocities out of Galloway's lapdogs here then maybe I'm expecting a little much from the Moderates in the muslim community 

Just like all the catholics, led by the moronic Bill Donoghue in the US, who get their knickers in a twist anytime someone says anything even remotely disrespectful about catholicism.

All the Catholics....Really J? And anyway as long as we're still only getting our knickers in a twist and not chopping peoples heads off for being offended
it's all ok for now...I suppose

[J70]

Just like all the catholics, led by the moronic Bill Donoghue in the US, who get their knickers in a twist anytime someone says anything even remotely disrespectful about catholicism.

All the Catholics....Really J? And anyway as long as we're still only getting our knickers in a twist and not chopping peoples heads off for being offended
it's all ok for now...I suppose

Is that what you're reduced to? Taking a carefully selected interpretation of a comment like that and getting indignant? In context, it obviously means the catholic busybodies who, led by Bill Donohue, get offended over trivial insults. It doesn't mean each and every catholic.

But at least you apparently don't disagree with the point of my comment which is that people take their religion and their religious objects far, far too seriously, whether its Bill Donohue blethering on about some perceived slight or muslims agitating over a cartoon or a book that says something derogatory about Mohammed.

And yes, the feigned outrage by the likes of Donohue is generally just amusing and pathetic and society rolls on regardless, thankfully. As to whether the average muslim will resort to lethal force in defence of his religion more quickly than the average christian, well obviously the stereotype says yes. Is it true though, all else being equal, taking fights over territory and extremists like the Taliban and Al Qaida out of it? No one denies that they have a fucked-up, perverted strain of their religion. But if its all muslims who are more inclined to murderousness, then we should be seeing it everywhere, including the US and Europe. Is that the case?

[muppet]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/23/belgian-bishop-admits-molesting-boy

If the abuse terrorism was isolated to one country or region, I would lay the blame locally. When the abuse terrorism is world-wide I would lay the blame at the top.

A slightly altered quote from Muppet on the Clergy abuse thread (makes for interesting reading by the way to shine light on the rabid double standards) kinda sums up my argument here of the hypocrisy between the lynch mob mentality of the Catholic
Church and it's indiscretions by a few, and the deafening silence of the so called moderate muslims the world over in condemning and or denouncing global terror in the name of Islam!
The Catholic Church did indeed take a deserved battering from all walks of life and quite extensively on here  but not surprisingly, that is where the similarities stop
... then again,  when I can't seem to be able to pry a condemnation for said atrocities out of Galloway's lapdogs here then maybe I'm expecting a little much from the Moderates in the muslim community 

Just like all the catholics, led by the moronic Bill Donoghue in the US, who get their knickers in a twist anytime someone says anything even remotely disrespectful about catholicism.

All the Catholics....Really J? And anyway as long as we're still only getting our knickers in a twist and not chopping peoples heads off for being offended
it's all ok for now...I suppose

The problem with this ridiculous analogy is that the Catholic Church didn't have countries invaded by the children they abused, they didn't have their citizens bombed by the victims of pedophilia and they didn't have their enemies armed to the teeth by the innocent children. The children can in no way be accused of provocation.

While Islamic Terrorism is unjustified as is any other terrorism, it is absurd to ignore the role of the USA's foreign policy as a catalyst for Islamic attacks on the USA and its allies.

Most posters here condemn the 911 attacks and any other attacks carried out by Al Queda and the like. They also condemn the rocket attacks on Israel and the suicide bombers but Tyrone's Own and co will always ignore that.

Moderate Islamics probably find themselves where moderate nationalists were during the 1980s. i.e. against terrorism but afraid to go around publicly denouncing it.

[Main Street]

I can't get enough of this one

[thebigfella]

What time does this burning event kick off? Do you reckon it's on normal tv or has anyone got any links? Suppose I should run round to the 24 hours and get matches too, wouldn't wanna miss out for lack of a light.

[mylestheslasher]

Nine years, two wars, all the dead -- nothing learnt

By Robert Fisk
Saturday September 11 2010

Did 9/11 make us all go mad? How fitting, in a weird, crazed way, that the apotheosis of that firestorm nine years ago should turn out to be a crackpot preacher threatening another firestorm with a Nazi-style book burning of the Koran.

Or a would-be mosque two blocks from "ground zero" -- as if 9/11 was an onslaught on Jesus-worshipping Christians, rather than on the atheist West.

But why should we be surprised? Just look at all the other crackpots spawned in the aftermath of those international crimes against humanity: the half-crazed Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the smarmy post-nuclear Moammar Gadaffi, Tony Blair with his crazed right eye and George W Bush with his black prisons and torture and lunatic "war on terror". And that wretched man who lived -- or lives still -- in an Afghan cave and the hundreds of al-Qa'idas whom he created. And remember one thing: even if the Rev Terry Jones sticks with his decision to back down, another of our cranks will be ready to take his place.

Indeed, on this grim ninth anniversary -- and heaven spare us next year from the 10th -- 9/11 appears to have produced not peace or justice or democracy or human rights, but monsters. They have prowled Iraq -- both the Western and the local variety -- and slaughtered 100,000 souls, or 500,000, or a million; and who cares? They have killed tens of thousands in Afghanistan; and who cares?

And as the sickness has spread across the Middle East and then the globe, they -- the air force pilots and the insurgents, the Marines and the suicide bombers, the al-Qa'idas and the special forces and the close air support boys and the throat-cutters -- have torn the heads off women and children and the old and the sick and the young and healthy, from the Indus to the Mediterranean, from Bali to the London Tube. That is quite a memorial to the 2,966 innocents who were killed nine years ago. All in their name, it seems, has been our holocaust of fire and blood, enshrined now in the crazed pastor of Gainesville.

And God? Where does he fit in? An archive of quotations suggests that just about every monster created in or after 9/11 is a follower of him. Bin Laden prays to God -- "to turn America into a shadow of itself", as he told me in 1997 -- and Bush prayed to God and Blair prayed -- and prays -- to God, and all the Muslim killers and an awful lot of Western soldiers and Dr (honourary) Pastor Terry Jones and his 30 (or it may be 50, since all statistics are hard to come by in the "war on terror") pray to God. And poor old God, of course, has had to listen to these prayers as he always sits through them during our mad wars. Recall the words attributed to him by a poet of another generation: "God this, God that, and God the other thing. 'Good God,' said God, 'I've got my work cut out'." And that was just World War One ...

Just five years ago -- on the fourth anniversary of the Twin Towers/Pentagon/Pennsylvania attacks -- a schoolgirl asked me at a lecture in a Belfast church whether the Middle East would benefit from more religion. No -- less religion! -- I howled back. God is good for contemplation, not for war. But this whole bloody mess involves the Middle East; it is about a Muslim people who have kept their faith while those Westerners who dominate them -- militarily, economically, culturally, socially -- have lost theirs.

Irony

How can this be, Muslims ask? Indeed, it is a superb irony that the Rev Jones is a believer while the rest of us -- by and large -- are not. Hence our books and our documentaries never refer to Muslims vs Christians, but Muslims versus 'The West'.

And of course, the one taboo subject of which we must not speak -- Israel's relationship with America, and America's unconditional support for Israel's theft of land from Muslim Arabs -- also lies at the heart of this terrible crisis in our lives. We may prefer to ignore this in "the West" -- where Muslims supposedly "hate us for what we are" or "hate our democracy" (see: Bush, Blair and a host of other mendacious politicians) -- but this great conflict lies at the heart of the "war on terror". That is why Benjamin Netanyahu reacted to the atrocities of 9/11 by claiming that the event would be good for Israel. Israel would now be able to claim that it, too, was fighting the "war on terror".

It was not. Israel's battle with the Palestinians is a ghastly caricature of our "war on terror", in which we are supposed to support the last colonial project on Earth -- and accept its thousands of victims -- because the Twin Towers and the Pentagon and United Flight 93 were attacked by 19 Arab murderers nine years ago. There is a supreme irony in the fact that one direct result of 9/11 has been the stream of Western policemen and spooks who have travelled to Israel to improve their "anti-terrorist expertise" with the help of Israeli officers.

And yes, I know the arguments. We cannot compare the actions of evil terrorists with the courage of young men and women, defending our lives -- and sacrificing theirs -- on the front lines of the "war on terror". There can be no "equivalence". "They" kill innocents because "they" are evil. "We" kill innocents by mistake. But we know we are going to kill innocents -- we willingly accept that we are going to kill innocents, that our actions are going to create mass graves of families, of the poor and the weak and the dispossessed.

This is why we created the obscene definition of "collateral damage". For if "collateral" means that these victims are innocent, then "collateral" also means that we are innocent of killing them. It was not our wish to kill them -- even if we knew it was inevitable that we would. "Collateral" is our exoneration. This one word is the difference between "them" and "us", between our God-given right to kill and Bin Laden's God-given right to murder.

That's why we know how many died on 9/11 -- 2,966, although the figure may be higher -- and why we don't "do body counts" on those whom we kill. Because they -- "our" victims -- must have no identities, no innocence, no personality, no cause or belief or feelings; and because we have killed far, far more human beings than Bin Laden and the Taliban and al-Qa'ida.

Anniversaries are newspaper and television events. And while on this gloomy anniversary the Rev Jones wanted to burn a book called the Koran, Tony Blair tried to sell a book called 'A Journey'. Rev Jones said the Koran was "evil"; people have asked whether the Blair book should be classified as "crime". Certainly, 9/11 has moved into fantasy when the Rev Jones can command the attention of the Obamas and the Clintons and the Holy Father and the even more Holy United Nations. Whom the gods would destroy... (©Independent News Service)

- Robert Fisk


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/nine-years-two-wars-all-the-dead-nothing-learnt-2333680.html

[Hedley Lamarr]

EID MUBARACK!!

[give her dixie]

 September Eleven: Hope or Hate?

"Book burning is a special kind of savagery..."


by Felicity Arbuthnot



"No creature smarts so little as a fool." (Alexander Pope, 1688-1744.)


Numerous commentators on the demented, hate filled ramblings of "Pastor" Terry Jones, who may or may not celebrate his 11th September by an evening of Qur'an burnings, have referred to the potential of Muslim retaliation across the globe.  General Petraeus is concerned about backlash to US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Obama and Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, more or less reiterated his stance -  whilst saying they are powerless to stop his hate filled initiative. One can only speculate as to whether they would be as sanguine were it the Torah or Talmud being burned.



Yet the avalanche of comments also create a further divide.

Jones is a man with miniscule "following." Near no mention is being made of Christians, Jews or those born to both religions, but who have long wandered away, and of other faiths, or none, shamed and repelled to have this action committed in their name - they are American, British, German, Spanish, Polish, Italian and other nations - civilian, but unwillingly "allied" to the "coalition", who have invaded - and are threatening -  Muslim countries. They are part of the millions who marched against war - and the countless more, who first believed the threats spouted by their governments, then acknowledged that they had been mislead and have acted tirelessly, trying to redress their - and governments - mistakes.



One website condemning the action attracted seven thousand protesters near-instantly. A tongue in cheek commentator suggested it is the Pastor who should be burned - in Hell. Another site has attracted more thousands of non-Muslims to a worldwide "Wear a Hijab Day", on 11th September - and another to convert the anniversary to global: "Buy a Qur'an Day."



One writer wondered what kind of "crazy" now "represents" God. Well, a few actually. There was George W. Bush, who announced he was embarking on a "Crusade" and was enjoined by then Prime Minister Tony Blair, now converted to Catholicism. There was the "Clash of Civilisations", nonsense.  And US and UK soldiers taking in guns with Biblical quotes on the stocks - and distributing bibles in the relevant languages as they incursed - and worse - in to towns, villages, neighbourhoods in Afghanistan and Iraq. A practice, when discovered, which led - ironically - to a photo-op of ceremonial burnings of remaining bible stocks by US troops.



Guantanamo, Bagram and formerly US and UK-operated prisons in Iraq (and elsewhere) including another infamy, Abu Ghraib, filled with near entirely Muslims. Countless languishing for years, uncharged and with no day in Court. Tortured, unimaginably degraded, their Qur'ans have been thrown in to toilets, stepped on and worse. In Fallujah in the original confrontation when the US troops took over a school, they left having written obscenities about Islam on doors and walls, having repeatedly defecated and again, done the unspeakable to Qur'ans.



Book burning is a special kind of savagery, it both destroys and displays an ignorance of and fear of culture, own and that of others. Julius Caesar burned the great library in Alexandria in 48 BC. Nero burned Rome in 64 AD. The Mongul hordes the Baghdad Library and that of the great Munstanstarya University eight hundred years ago. Hitler, of course was in to book burning, organized under Goebbels, the Orwellianly-named Minster of Enlightenment. The new Monguls, in US uniform, allowed or were instrumental, in the same the same, multi-fold, in 2003 - and have continued to bomb and burn property and people - and Qur'ans - for seven years - ongoing, for all the misleading "pullout" nonsense.



Perhaps Mr Jones - who seemingly packs a .40-caliber pistol on his hip - has unwittingly made one progressive step. After what has been revealed, from top to bottom of barking crazy fundamentalism in Christianity, many may think twice before ever again writing or uttering the words: "fundamentalist" with "Islam."



11th September falls at the start of the three day Muslim celebration of Eid, marking the end of the holy month of Ramadan, a time of abstinence. Eid is joyous meals, new clothes for children, gifts and pristine money for the young. In Afghanistan and Iraq, for the majority it is either scaled down to near nothing, or just a memory, due to grief, invasion, inflicted travel terror, poverty, or all four . 



For America, it is the commemoration of the fall of the Towers, with no thought of the 11th September inflicted in casualties, daily, weekly, monthly on the countries invaded since - who had no nationals even accused of being on the flights which allegedly hit the buildings and the Pentagon (facts which over twelve hundred professionals and experts now dispute the official version.)



Anniversaries on 11th September abound, from the mists of time onwards. However, some salutary ones, in relatively recent history, show America is not alone in its suffering, indeed, has created that of others. On 11th September 1919, US Marines invaded Honduras; on 11th September 1941, the ground was broken for the construction of the Pentagon, that source of more subsequent world wide marauding and slaughter. On 11th September  1965, the US First Cavalry arrived in Viet Nam - and on 11th September 1973, the Nixon Administration's collusion in the overthrow of the democratically elected President Salvador Allende in Chile, came to fruition, ushering in the decades of the "disappeared", under General Augusto Pinochet.



Ally Britain indulged in a bit of decimation on 11th September 1944, bombing and creating a fire storm in Darmstadt, Germany, incinerating eleven thousand five hundred people. 11th September 1997 is remembered for the loss of fourteen Estonian soldiers on the Russian submarine Kurske, in a haunting disaster. The widow of one who died reflected, memorably: " If you betray your country (the law is invoked) and you pay the price. But what happens if your country betrays you?" Quite.



Betrayed also are the nationalities of the numerous other countries who died in the Twin Towers - over one in ten of the tragedy. They included nationals of Jordan and Lebanon, India lost forty one, South Korea twenty eight, Canada and Japan both lost twenty four, Colombia seventeen, Jamaica, Mexico and the Philippines sixteen each, Australia and Germany eleven each, Italy ten, Israel five and the UK sixty seven, including nationals of its territory, Bermuda. Deaths in lesser numbers are from nations across the planet. (Wikipedia and others.) In spite of a near uniquely international tragedy, and opportunity for coming together, it seems to have been transformed in to exclusively American grief - and revenge.



Even that wretched dove, symbol of global peace, which adorns cards for all seasons, has become embroiled, with "Pastor" Jones, in naming his strange interpretation of vengeful, not conciliatory, Christianity: "Dove World Outreach Centre."  Jones, of course sent children from his church to school, wearing shirts stating: "Islam Is Of The Devil," also the title of a book he has written. Impossible not to think of a recent depiction on a card, of a desperate dove, not with an olive leaf, or twig in its beak, but the entire branch. It  is depicted struggling through the thermals, drops of perspiration bursting though the feathers.



Those of note who have spoken out appear to be more worried about retaliation on US and UK troops, than the implications of a shaming act. With the news from Pentagon documents, that US troops have alleged to have been involved in further atrocities, collecting of fingers, teeth bones, even skulls of victims, retaliation seems anyway, pretty well guaranteed. 



Recently a contributer to a Middle East-orientated website wrote: "I am a Muslim : Kill me & call it "collateral damage"; imprison me & call it: "security measure"; exile my people en masse & call it: "A New Middle East"; steal my resources, invade my land, murder my wife & children, alter the leadership of my country & call it: "democracy." He speaks for millions. Those representing the West, especially the US and UK need humility, genuine outreach, to listen carefully before they talk and bridge building, not bridge burning.

11th September 1893 marked the first World Parliament of Religions, held in Chicago, an outreach of understanding between all faiths, and held ever since. An anniversary which celebrates justice, not vengeance. A good starting point in emulating their efforts, might be to ponder on a verse from the Qur'an. The copy in mind is in superb, lovingly crafted caligraphy, on palest peachy-primrose, dawn's perhaps most perfect herald. Translated, it reads:



"I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn,

From the mischief of created things,

From the mischief of darkness as it overspreads,

From the mischief of those who blow on knots'

And from the mischief of the envious one as he practises envy."