Limerick hurlers

[Bing Crosby .]

 "Justin will loose, right or wrong. He'll loose."


I'll bet you a thousand euro Justin Mc Carthy will be the team manager 2011 onwards .  He will be going nowhere .

[johnneycool]

this one is a strange one as for whatever reasons the players aren't getting the same support from the Limerick shoppers, media and club delegates as was the case in Cork and Clare.

The (ex)players release a statement with their concerns and issues yet at a meeting of the Limerick county board last night it wasn't even discussed, maybe the Limerick Co board were sticking rigidly to the rules of AOB or whatever but I'm sure that will irk the disaffected players.

Are the Limerick county board burying their heads in the sand and hoping the issue blows over or are they really that steadast behind Justin? only time will tell.

[heffo]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite.

The first 'accusations' from anyone was the orchestrated leak by the Strikers to Kieran Shannon (Everyones favourite GPA-loving Journo) on the October Bank holiday in 2008 - it was an in depth piece which contained numerous personalised attacks on Gerald McCarthys character & coaching abilities.

I've no desire to get into the issue again (mainly because we were right then) but thats fact.

If you disagree with this matter of record, please produce a quote from McCarthy before the October Bank holiday 2008 - otherwise give over about your bunch of ignorant militants.

Leaked being the word, Gerald reacted with a snowball of statement after statement. With accusations after acusations, and eventually called the meeting where the press were aloud in. Then the tied changed. But Gerald was in the media whining and whining every minute of the day. The players didn't make near as many statements to the press despite them getting completley slated. But hey..not like that matters. They're just all "ignorant militants" good to know what you think of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy.etc. Good to know you've no respect for players like them.

So you agree that the first side to conduct their business through the media was the Strikers?

[Reillers]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite.

The first 'accusations' from anyone was the orchestrated leak by the Strikers to Kieran Shannon (Everyones favourite GPA-loving Journo) on the October Bank holiday in 2008 - it was an in depth piece which contained numerous personalised attacks on Gerald McCarthys character & coaching abilities.

I've no desire to get into the issue again (mainly because we were right then) but thats fact.

If you disagree with this matter of record, please produce a quote from McCarthy before the October Bank holiday 2008 - otherwise give over about your bunch of ignorant militants.

Leaked being the word, Gerald reacted with a snowball of statement after statement. With accusations after acusations, and eventually called the meeting where the press were aloud in. Then the tied changed. But Gerald was in the media whining and whining every minute of the day. The players didn't make near as many statements to the press despite them getting completley slated. But hey..not like that matters. They're just all "ignorant militants" good to know what you think of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy.etc. Good to know you've no respect for players like them.

So you agree that the first side to conduct their business through the media was the Strikers?

Why does it matter, and like you said it was a journalist, not the players. No players were mentioned in the article, and Shannon is not a player.
And like I said it's good to see what your true feelings are of the likes of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy..etc. "ignorant millitants" oh so little respect to players who've given years of service, much more then you could ever imagine.

[Reillers]

"Justin will loose, right or wrong. He'll loose."


I'll bet you a thousand euro Justin Mc Carthy will be the team manager 2011 onwards .  He will be going nowhere .

Hahaha..no.
For me he's been under a lot of pressure and it's just getting heavier and heavier.
But that said, he has got backing.

[heffo]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite.

The first 'accusations' from anyone was the orchestrated leak by the Strikers to Kieran Shannon (Everyones favourite GPA-loving Journo) on the October Bank holiday in 2008 - it was an in depth piece which contained numerous personalised attacks on Gerald McCarthys character & coaching abilities.

I've no desire to get into the issue again (mainly because we were right then) but thats fact.

If you disagree with this matter of record, please produce a quote from McCarthy before the October Bank holiday 2008 - otherwise give over about your bunch of ignorant militants.

Leaked being the word, Gerald reacted with a snowball of statement after statement. With accusations after acusations, and eventually called the meeting where the press were aloud in. Then the tied changed. But Gerald was in the media whining and whining every minute of the day. The players didn't make near as many statements to the press despite them getting completley slated. But hey..not like that matters. They're just all "ignorant militants" good to know what you think of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy.etc. Good to know you've no respect for players like them.

So you agree that the first side to conduct their business through the media was the Strikers?

Why does it matter, and like you said it was a journalist, not the players. No players were mentioned in the article, and Shannon is not a player.
And like I said it's good to see what your true feelings are of the likes of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy..etc. "ignorant millitants" oh so little respect to players who've given years of service, much more then you could ever imagine.

It matters because:

1. You gave the impression that the only reason the Strikers were washing their dirty linen in public was to respond to Ger Mc's criticisms - this is entirely false

2. "it was a journalist, not the players" - it was the players who sat down with Kieran Shannon for an entire afternoon and fed him all that bull that his entire article was based on

[INDIANA]

Indiana I wouldn't have been too far apart from you on the Cork dispute but I have to say I think you're reading this this one wrongly and missing potential consequences.
They're not training on their own - were the Cork strikers ever really doing any serious training on their own or was all the talk a PR exercise - but they have now said, "...we will not play any active part in the 2010 Limerick senior hurling panel while the present management is in place." Seems that what the Cork strikers started off saying and the Limerick boys haven't given up on playing. Strange?
Coming up with their own gameplan? Donal óg and his puck outs. Similar?
'We could have said something but didn't.' Even though they said they hadn't said anything. Contradiction?
"...lack of discipline or commitment". Who determines that?

"As a result of his failure to clarify instances where discipline was breached or a lack of commitment was evident, each player made a voluntary decision regarding their availability for the 2010 panel under the current management."
So this was an issue before Justin's interview.
"...players' representatives were asked to consider meeting the 2010 management with a view to discussing the main issues and concerns of panel members. While they were receptive to arranging a meeting, the players felt that it would achieve little,...". Now tell me that's not 'Cork-like'.

"His further assertion that "players were trying to get rid of us" is without any basis."
No need to contact the county board then. Right?
"This situation has been poorly handled by the County Board on a number of fronts:

• At several points over the course of the 2009 season, they were made aware by players that preparations were not up to the required standards and that team morale was quite poor."
So why meet the county board then?
Calls for a players' rep, no such thing as 'player power' but we'll play if Justin is removed,we've received great support and we make huge sacrifices.
There are so many similarities to Cork but these boys are being slightly more subtle in their approach.
I don't believe for one minute these boys have simply walked away, haven't met, haven't discussed their situation or aren't getting advice from Cork and the GPA.
If the county board or Justin don't respond in public, in theory that should be the end of it.
We'll see.
Seems to me like Cork repeating all over again. Players deciding how they would play and villifying the manager in particular and the CB as a by the way when they don't have the power they want.

I don't agree. Gerald didn't jettison any of the ringleaders of the strike. They removed themselves. Justin identified 10-12 players he didn't want anymore and got rid of them before the season started. Gerald also never insulted the Cork players in public. Justin chose to make some comments on some of the Limerick players in public. Whether they are true or not I don't know- I don't have connections in limerick. But they are entitled to the right of reply if someone makes a public statement about them especially in relation to their social activities. You have to remember some of the Limerick players jettisoned are tee-totallers so you would wonder is Justin losing the plot a bit. Justin should have simply said i think there are better hurlers than them in limerick. thats what the smart man would have done.

Another 10 players left becasue they don't like him as a manager. Eamonn Heery didn't like Pat O Neill in the 90's and quit. Players do this all the time and they are entitled to. Limerick aren't training on their own and they are letting Justin get on with it. the Limerick county board have backed Justin and the clubs are behind him. The fact that they are going to get annilaited in the league is a completely different issue.

Gerald was stitched up in my view- Justin hasn't been.

[Reillers]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite.

The first 'accusations' from anyone was the orchestrated leak by the Strikers to Kieran Shannon (Everyones favourite GPA-loving Journo) on the October Bank holiday in 2008 - it was an in depth piece which contained numerous personalised attacks on Gerald McCarthys character & coaching abilities.

I've no desire to get into the issue again (mainly because we were right then) but thats fact.

If you disagree with this matter of record, please produce a quote from McCarthy before the October Bank holiday 2008 - otherwise give over about your bunch of ignorant militants.

Leaked being the word, Gerald reacted with a snowball of statement after statement. With accusations after acusations, and eventually called the meeting where the press were aloud in. Then the tied changed. But Gerald was in the media whining and whining every minute of the day. The players didn't make near as many statements to the press despite them getting completley slated. But hey..not like that matters. They're just all "ignorant militants" good to know what you think of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy.etc. Good to know you've no respect for players like them.

So you agree that the first side to conduct their business through the media was the Strikers?

Why does it matter, and like you said it was a journalist, not the players. No players were mentioned in the article, and Shannon is not a player.
And like I said it's good to see what your true feelings are of the likes of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy..etc. "ignorant millitants" oh so little respect to players who've given years of service, much more then you could ever imagine.

It matters because:

1. You gave the impression that the only reason the Strikers were washing their dirty linen in public was to respond to Ger Mc's criticisms - this is entirely false

2. "it was a journalist, not the players" - it was the players who sat down with Kieran Shannon for an entire afternoon and fed him all that bull that his entire article was based on

Shannon put out a piece, so what. He never mentioned any players and most of what he said was a personalised few from himself. You don't know how he get the info and making speculations about them sitting there for an afternoon feeding him bull is a joke.

And at the end of the day the players made 8/9 statements while Gerald made over 35 statements, that's says it all really. And those 8/9 were all responses to Gerald if I remember right. Shannon's piece was not a statement from the players, like I said you've not a clue how he got those tiny bits of info.

[dowling]

Indiana I wouldn't have been too far apart from you on the Cork dispute but I have to say I think you're reading this this one wrongly and missing potential consequences.
They're not training on their own - were the Cork strikers ever really doing any serious training on their own or was all the talk a PR exercise - but they have now said, "...we will not play any active part in the 2010 Limerick senior hurling panel while the present management is in place." Seems that what the Cork strikers started off saying and the Limerick boys haven't given up on playing. Strange?
Coming up with their own gameplan? Donal óg and his puck outs. Similar?
'We could have said something but didn't.' Even though they said they hadn't said anything. Contradiction?
"...lack of discipline or commitment". Who determines that?

"As a result of his failure to clarify instances where discipline was breached or a lack of commitment was evident, each player made a voluntary decision regarding their availability for the 2010 panel under the current management."
So this was an issue before Justin's interview.
"...players' representatives were asked to consider meeting the 2010 management with a view to discussing the main issues and concerns of panel members. While they were receptive to arranging a meeting, the players felt that it would achieve little,...". Now tell me that's not 'Cork-like'.

"His further assertion that "players were trying to get rid of us" is without any basis."
No need to contact the county board then. Right?
"This situation has been poorly handled by the County Board on a number of fronts:

• At several points over the course of the 2009 season, they were made aware by players that preparations were not up to the required standards and that team morale was quite poor."
So why meet the county board then?
Calls for a players' rep, no such thing as 'player power' but we'll play if Justin is removed,we've received great support and we make huge sacrifices.
There are so many similarities to Cork but these boys are being slightly more subtle in their approach.
I don't believe for one minute these boys have simply walked away, haven't met, haven't discussed their situation or aren't getting advice from Cork and the GPA.
If the county board or Justin don't respond in public, in theory that should be the end of it.
We'll see.
Seems to me like Cork repeating all over again. Players deciding how they would play and villifying the manager in particular and the CB as a by the way when they don't have the power they want.

I don't agree. Gerald didn't jettison any of the ringleaders of the strike. They removed themselves. Justin identified 10-12 players he didn't want anymore and got rid of them before the season started. Gerald also never insulted the Cork players in public. Justin chose to make some comments on some of the Limerick players in public. Whether they are true or not I don't know- I don't have connections in limerick. But they are entitled to the right of reply if someone makes a public statement about them especially in relation to their social activities. You have to remember some of the Limerick players jettisoned are tee-totallers so you would wonder is Justin losing the plot a bit. Justin should have simply said i think there are better hurlers than them in limerick. thats what the smart man would have done.

Another 10 players left becasue they don't like him as a manager. Eamonn Heery didn't like Pat O Neill in the 90's and quit. Players do this all the time and they are entitled to. Limerick aren't training on their own and they are letting Justin get on with it. the Limerick county board have backed Justin and the clubs are behind him. The fact that they are going to get annilaited in the league is a completely different issue.

Gerald was stitched up in my view- Justin hasn't been.

There's no doubt that Limerick players haven't been to the press in the same way as the Cork strikers were but neither have they been keeping the air of dignified silence they've proclaimed. Throughout this dispute there have been player interviews in the press. On top of that they have now qualified their 'walking away' by stating they wont play under the present management. We have to assume they will play under a different management which is agreeable to them so in effect we can describe them as being on strike. All this actually puts Justin's interview in the context of a response to the players.
Even every time a player 'walked away' it was making a statement - indeed in most media reports these occasions are described as protests - so Justin is quite entitled to respond.
Ger didn't axe a number of players but maybe he should have but of course he had more to lose and probably thought he could bring certain players round. I don't think Justin's criticisms are that personal or identifying, unless I've missed a piece somewhere. But the players themselves in their statement acknowledge the truth in Justins. If there weren't individuals trying to get rid of him why did they approach the county board last year and what were they after? And if players were approaching the county board were they doing so as individuals or were there organised player meetings. We already know they had at least one about a gameplan.
I don't believe this dispute began with the dropping of certain players and I'm convinced that, at least for a number of players on protest, there has never been any intention not to try to win this dispute.
Also on the players' statement, as well as an attempt to rebutt Justin I believe it's also an attempt to show solidarity and unity among those players and not dissimilar to the Cork strikers. The approach is just slightly different and I'd guess that's because of lessons learned from the Cork dispute.
And why exactly are the dropped players and the protesting players putting on a show of unity and solidarity?
I'd be surprised if there's not more to come from them. They probably see a couple of games into the national league as being a timeline so they probably don't see much need for urgency at present and maybe see a few heavy beatings helping their cause.

As for your position Reillers, you constantly told us the Cork dispute was really about FM and the CB, two elements missing here so surely you cant back the protesters.

[Bing Crosby .]

"Gerald was stitched up in my view-  Justin hasn't been"

I don't don't how you can say that Indy . The players have walked away leaving Justin with his p***k in his hand .

As far as I'm concerned that's a stitch up . 

[INDIANA]

"Gerald was stitched up in my view-  Justin hasn't been"

I don't don't how you can say that Indy . The players have walked away leaving Justin with his p***k in his hand .

As far as I'm concerned that's a stitch up .

How- Justin doesn't want 12 of the 24 players anyway And most limerick observers would say from my reading that 5/6 of the best players in limerick are in that 12.
Of the other 12- most limerick people would say they are replaceable bar Gav O Mahony and Seamus Hickey. Most of the 24- their services aren't required anyway.
Contrast that to Gerald who simply had the whole squad walk away. Never at any stage did Gerald make any attempts not to select Og Cusack, O Hailpin or Curran- yet they said adios.
I really can't see them as the same situations.

And I'm not saying Justin is wrong. justin as manager was entitled to get rid of 12-15 players. Which he duly did. I can't remember Gerald turfing out 12 Cork hurlers.

[orangeman]

Limerick hurling selector John Tuohy has told RTÉ Sport that he is optimistic that a resolution can be found to end the ongoing impasse between the players and management in the county.

Speaking on Drivetime Sport, Tuohy said both parties are currently in talks to resolve the issues that have caused the current spilt.

Tuohy himself is acting as a mediator in the dispute.

He remains hopeful that most of those players in self imposed exile will return.

[heffo]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite.

The first 'accusations' from anyone was the orchestrated leak by the Strikers to Kieran Shannon (Everyones favourite GPA-loving Journo) on the October Bank holiday in 2008 - it was an in depth piece which contained numerous personalised attacks on Gerald McCarthys character & coaching abilities.

I've no desire to get into the issue again (mainly because we were right then) but thats fact.

If you disagree with this matter of record, please produce a quote from McCarthy before the October Bank holiday 2008 - otherwise give over about your bunch of ignorant militants.

Leaked being the word, Gerald reacted with a snowball of statement after statement. With accusations after acusations, and eventually called the meeting where the press were aloud in. Then the tied changed. But Gerald was in the media whining and whining every minute of the day. The players didn't make near as many statements to the press despite them getting completley slated. But hey..not like that matters. They're just all "ignorant militants" good to know what you think of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy.etc. Good to know you've no respect for players like them.

So you agree that the first side to conduct their business through the media was the Strikers?

Why does it matter, and like you said it was a journalist, not the players. No players were mentioned in the article, and Shannon is not a player.
And like I said it's good to see what your true feelings are of the likes of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy..etc. "ignorant millitants" oh so little respect to players who've given years of service, much more then you could ever imagine.

It matters because:

1. You gave the impression that the only reason the Strikers were washing their dirty linen in public was to respond to Ger Mc's criticisms - this is entirely false

2. "it was a journalist, not the players" - it was the players who sat down with Kieran Shannon for an entire afternoon and fed him all that bull that his entire article was based on

Shannon put out a piece, so what. He never mentioned any players and most of what he said was a personalised few from himself. You don't know how he get the info and making speculations about them sitting there for an afternoon feeding him bull is a joke.

It's not idle 'speculations' at all - I do know how he got his information.

He was able to write detailed information on the contents of sandwiches for the Cork players lunch in Lawlors hotel in Dungarvan, what Donal Og thought of those sandwiches.

He was able to write exactly what was said to Donal Og when the keeper completely disregarded his managers instructions on puck outs.

He was able to write exactly exactly what was said to Timmy McCarthy in an exchange between Timmy & Ger Mc

Indeed, Reillers - it wasn't a leaked piece from the Strikers. Indeed.

Keep the faith Chemical Reillers.

[INDIANA]

lost to carlow last weekend. Only a challenge but the signs aren't good.

[Silky]

Carlow are improving but that's still a cause for concern.