Limerick hurlers

[Bing Crosby .]

These lads are living in la la land if they think they'l glean any sympathy from Limerick geals for that press release . It's all very sad really , a few of those lads were fine hurlers . I hope that they come to their senses sooner rather than later .

[DuffleKing]

A right of reply to the constant barrage of innuendo and accusations in the press.

Very measured and thorough too

[AZOffaly]

So much for the softly softly approach. Although to be fair I don't think they are asking for anything and seem to have accepted the fact that they are off the panel of their own volition.

[INDIANA]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

[Reillers]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite. You pick and choose the facts you want then and in this case as well. You fail to see the similiarities because you don't want to, you were all about morals, and the GAA..etc when it was about Cork, but when it's to do with a different county, well, then it's a different story all together. It's not poor old Justin is it. It's both sides fault, which is rational and level head..etc. But it's bullshit if you go by what you based your opinions on in what happened in Cork. But hey, apparently there aren't any similarities at all. 

[INDIANA]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite. You pick and choose the facts you want then and in this case as well. You fail to see the similiarities because you don't want to, you were all about morals, and the GAA..etc when it was about Cork, but when it's to do with a different county, well, then it's a different story all together. It's not poor old Justin is it. It's both sides fault, which is rational and level head..etc. But it's bullshit if you go by what you based your opinions on in what happened in Cork. But hey, apparently there aren't any similarities at all. 

The fact are Reillers:

- The cork hurlers formed a renegade panel to train outsides the remit of the GAA.
- They had a press conference to announce they were withdrawing their services.
-They never at any stage recognised the right of the manager to pick his own squad even if they weren't on it
-Gerald didn't discard any of the senior players. they discarded themselves.

Those are the facts Reillers and they are undisputed. I can't see the similarities./ The fact that you're not bright enough to see the difference isn't my fault. Justin has picked his squad and he's running with that. He's discarded 12 senior players as his is right as manager.
He won't open up the Irish Independent and see a renegade Limerick panel training on their own.

[heffo]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite.

The first 'accusations' from anyone was the orchestrated leak by the Strikers to Kieran Shannon (Everyones favourite GPA-loving Journo) on the October Bank holiday in 2008 - it was an in depth piece which contained numerous personalised attacks on Gerald McCarthys character & coaching abilities.

I've no desire to get into the issue again (mainly because we were right then) but thats fact.

If you disagree with this matter of record, please produce a quote from McCarthy before the October Bank holiday 2008 - otherwise give over about your bunch of ignorant militants.

[Reillers]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite.

The first 'accusations' from anyone was the orchestrated leak by the Strikers to Kieran Shannon (Everyones favourite GPA-loving Journo) on the October Bank holiday in 2008 - it was an in depth piece which contained numerous personalised attacks on Gerald McCarthys character & coaching abilities.

I've no desire to get into the issue again (mainly because we were right then) but thats fact.

If you disagree with this matter of record, please produce a quote from McCarthy before the October Bank holiday 2008 - otherwise give over about your bunch of ignorant militants.

Leaked being the word, Gerald reacted with a snowball of statement after statement. With accusations after acusations, and eventually called the meeting where the press were aloud in. Then the tied changed. But Gerald was in the media whining and whining every minute of the day. The players didn't make near as many statements to the press despite them getting completley slated. But hey..not like that matters. They're just all "ignorant militants" good to know what you think of Joe Deane, Timmy McCarthy.etc. Good to know you've no respect for players like them.

[Reillers]

I fail to see the similarities.

-The Limerick players haven't formed a renegade panel to train on their own
- 12 of them have voluntarily withdrawn their services- remember Justin had discarded 12 of them as well. Thats their right
-They have accepted Justin's entitlement to pick his own panel and are letting him get on with it.
- they haven't organised press conferences for announcements.

Seems to me they just answered some of the claims out there from Justin. I think both sides are to blame but I can't see the similarities between this and the Cork case. If they don't want to play for Justin thats fine by me. They are entitled not to do so.

Hypocrite, you weren't too pleased when the Cork lads answered some of the claims out there from Gerald, and they were a lot, statement after statement of accusations, but anytime the Cork players answered to them you threw a miny little fit, but like I said, hypocrite. You pick and choose the facts you want then and in this case as well. You fail to see the similiarities because you don't want to, you were all about morals, and the GAA..etc when it was about Cork, but when it's to do with a different county, well, then it's a different story all together. It's not poor old Justin is it. It's both sides fault, which is rational and level head..etc. But it's bullshit if you go by what you based your opinions on in what happened in Cork. But hey, apparently there aren't any similarities at all. 

The fact are Reillers:

- The cork hurlers formed a renegade panel to train outsides the remit of the GAA.
- They had a press conference to announce they were withdrawing their services.
-They never at any stage recognised the right of the manager to pick his own squad even if they weren't on it
-Gerald didn't discard any of the senior players. they discarded themselves.

Those are the facts Reillers and they are undisputed. I can't see the similarities./ The fact that you're not bright enough to see the difference isn't my fault. Justin has picked his squad and he's running with that. He's discarded 12 senior players as his is right as manager.
He won't open up the Irish Independent and see a renegade Limerick panel training on their own.

The Cork panel trained..something wrong with that? I'm sure the lads off the Limerick panel are doing the same, training away. And that's something you never really had any issue with at the time.

When press confrence are you on about the one they did before the tied changed?? I don't remember another one. And if they had a press conference at the start, which correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think they had, that wasn't an issue with you either, you didn't make it one. (Too busy bashing Donal Og and the GPA.)

The third issue, since when did he need their permission??

Gerald provoked his players, just like Justin has apparently done the same according to them, not in the same way but it happened.
Justin dropped a few from the pannel, they all then (well most anyway) said they were walking away and would not play under Justin again.

I can see the difference clearly, I just think it's hillarious that you wont admit to the simmilarities, or is it because you're just not "bright" enough??

But like I said, these issues you've raised here are not the ones that you had problems with in the topic, not that I remember and you repeated yourself a lot so..
You were all about the morale standings and about the GAA and what they're doing to it by refusing to play. You were so so passionate, but it was never really about the Cork players you said, just about what they are doing. Limerick are doing something similiar, yes there are differences, but the issues you had with their actions are the same you should have here with the Limerick players actions.
If your motivation was not how much you hated them, but hated what they were doing, like you said then you should have the same feelings here but you don't, and I don't see the same outrage either. But that's not surprising.

[dowling]

Indiana I wouldn't have been too far apart from you on the Cork dispute but I have to say I think you're reading this this one wrongly and missing potential consequences.
They're not training on their own - were the Cork strikers ever really doing any serious training on their own or was all the talk a PR exercise - but they have now said, "...we will not play any active part in the 2010 Limerick senior hurling panel while the present management is in place." Seems that what the Cork strikers started off saying and the Limerick boys haven't given up on playing. Strange?
Coming up with their own gameplan? Donal óg and his puck outs. Similar?
'We could have said something but didn't.' Even though they said they hadn't said anything. Contradiction?
"...lack of discipline or commitment". Who determines that?

"As a result of his failure to clarify instances where discipline was breached or a lack of commitment was evident, each player made a voluntary decision regarding their availability for the 2010 panel under the current management."
So this was an issue before Justin's interview.
"...players' representatives were asked to consider meeting the 2010 management with a view to discussing the main issues and concerns of panel members. While they were receptive to arranging a meeting, the players felt that it would achieve little,...". Now tell me that's not 'Cork-like'.

"His further assertion that "players were trying to get rid of us" is without any basis."
No need to contact the county board then. Right?
"This situation has been poorly handled by the County Board on a number of fronts:

• At several points over the course of the 2009 season, they were made aware by players that preparations were not up to the required standards and that team morale was quite poor."
So why meet the county board then?
Calls for a players' rep, no such thing as 'player power' but we'll play if Justin is removed,we've received great support and we make huge sacrifices.
There are so many similarities to Cork but these boys are being slightly more subtle in their approach.
I don't believe for one minute these boys have simply walked away, haven't met, haven't discussed their situation or aren't getting advice from Cork and the GPA.
If the county board or Justin don't respond in public, in theory that should be the end of it.
We'll see.
Seems to me like Cork repeating all over again. Players deciding how they would play and villifying the manager in particular and the CB as a by the way when they don't have the power they want.

[dowling]

As for yourself Reillers, you've a bit of a brass neck. Did you not go on about how none of understood the Cork dispute, the CB and Frank Murphy. Well this is a different CB and there's no Frank.

[Reillers]

As for yourself Reillers, you've a bit of a brass neck. Did you not go on about how none of understood the Cork dispute, the CB and Frank Murphy. Well this is a different CB and there's no Frank.

I never said about my position on the Limerick situation, I was just pointing out how much of a hypocrite he was being. He made out all along that what he was against in the Cork situation was not the players but their actions, but refuse to show the same outrage and such about Limerick that he did when it came to Cork, when the same things should be infuriating him here. Instead he refuses to acknowledge it at all.

[Reillers]

Indiana I wouldn't have been too far apart from you on the Cork dispute but I have to say I think you're reading this this one wrongly and missing potential consequences.
They're not training on their own - were the Cork strikers ever really doing any serious training on their own or was all the talk a PR exercise - but they have now said, "...we will not play any active part in the 2010 Limerick senior hurling panel while the present management is in place." Seems that what the Cork strikers started off saying and the Limerick boys haven't given up on playing. Strange?
Coming up with their own gameplan? Donal óg and his puck outs. Similar?
'We could have said something but didn't.' Even though they said they hadn't said anything. Contradiction?
"...lack of discipline or commitment". Who determines that?

"As a result of his failure to clarify instances where discipline was breached or a lack of commitment was evident, each player made a voluntary decision regarding their availability for the 2010 panel under the current management."
So this was an issue before Justin's interview.
"...players' representatives were asked to consider meeting the 2010 management with a view to discussing the main issues and concerns of panel members. While they were receptive to arranging a meeting, the players felt that it would achieve little,...". Now tell me that's not 'Cork-like'.

"His further assertion that "players were trying to get rid of us" is without any basis."
No need to contact the county board then. Right?
"This situation has been poorly handled by the County Board on a number of fronts:

• At several points over the course of the 2009 season, they were made aware by players that preparations were not up to the required standards and that team morale was quite poor."
So why meet the county board then?
Calls for a players' rep, no such thing as 'player power' but we'll play if Justin is removed,we've received great support and we make huge sacrifices.
There are so many similarities to Cork but these boys are being slightly more subtle in their approach.
I don't believe for one minute these boys have simply walked away, haven't met, haven't discussed their situation or aren't getting advice from Cork and the GPA.
If the county board or Justin don't respond in public, in theory that should be the end of it.
We'll see.
Seems to me like Cork repeating all over again. Players deciding how they would play and villifying the manager in particular and the CB as a by the way when they don't have the power they want.

I don't agree with half..well most of that. But at least your consistant. You had issues with what the Cork players did, and you now have issues with what the Limerick players did. Indy just had problems with the Cork players in general, but would never admit it.

And to be fair, everyone I know who was against the Cork players during the strike, who's read Donal Og's book (which is excellent to be fair) have changed their mind a lot in parts. There's this one lad I know, the most anti Cork players person I know, and he (brilliantly, as a joke) got a present of Donal Og's autobiograpy for Christmas and after he swore he'd never read it, he said he'd rather..well it doesn't matter what he said..really shouldn't repeat it. But he got that bored on a flight back to Australia and ending up reading it anyway. The conclusion he came to. Donal Og is up his own arse completley (that didn't change in his view) but also that he'd make a good manager, there's no messing around it's straight to the point with him (which is not always a good thing I'm told) but more importantly for this is that he can see reason why they did what they did, and would be far more sympathetic to the last strike after reading it.

..But really emphasised the fact that he was up his own hole just a little too much. A good read though. I recoment ye do the same, but I'd be wasting my time completley.

[dowling]

So where do you stand on this dispute?

[Reillers]

So where do you stand on this dispute?

Well like you said I've no right to criticise them, for me, the players have a right to walk away if they want. They're doing it, well have done so far, a lot neater then what happened in Cork, probably because of the little history there, that was viewable to people outside Cork anyway.

I remember thinking that they were throwing a bit of a strop at the very start for a while just because Justin dropped a few of them, (even though I didn't agree with some of the players he dropped) but obviously things ran a lot deeper then not being picked, much deeper.

What happened in Cork, because of the media involvement and the whole country looking and judging and criticising, the emotions ran so high and knee jerk reactions happened, because of the high profile players and the history there, and it became so long and draining and it killed our season, that's the price they paid, we had no season what so ever, no training, nothing.
What the players are doing they've a mighty reason for it and believe me it's not something they engage in lightly, and Justin, like Gerald will feel he has every right to stand his ground. And just like Gerald, as a GAA legend he'll have support, like he does now. But there will only be one outcome and I think we all know that.

It hasn't gotten that personal in Limerick yet, if they keep it that way things will be resolved a lot quicker. Things were said and done in Cork that happened in the heat of the moment in a knee jerk reaction that couldn't be taken back. I think that the likes of Limerick would have learned from that. But if they keep it like it is now, calm and clean, then it will resolve itself.
Limerick isn't Cork, they don't have anywhere near the same amount of players to choose from to pick another squad. So there will be more mounting presure, more then there is now on Justin.

Justin will loose, right or wrong. He'll loose. If it's clean cut then the mess wont drag out as long I'd say and the damage might still be repairable.

Limerick haven't made the same mistakes that were made in Cork. And for the sake of the GAA I hope they don't. I don't know if the GAA or the public could stomach another full blown strike.

I agree and backed the Cork players because I knew they were right, and the end result proved it to be true, but I remember someone commenting about the players rebellion, it wasn't about agreeing with it, it was about what happened next, and that when the dalm breaks..
And that might be the case here.