The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread

[lynchbhoy]

Again I was talking about managers of Celtic that came from Norn Iron who were Catholics, if you want to debate with me regarding something else then do so.
I was posting on the back of something illdecide had posted, and I didn't didn't realise that you decided what was the accepted view of all the posters on the gaaboard.
As for my view on Lennon no one deserves the abuse/threats he is getting, (already posted that when it happened) my question was simple, I'll ask again why hasn't others (from Norn Ireland) who have managed Celtic received the same as Lennon?
As to say it's not unfair to say MON would have got the same had he played for Celtic before managing is daft, with you're prediction skills could you tell me the numbers for the lotto this weekend? Aye that's right to assume something like would be silly.
Illdecide has already said he is no angel, and I believe he was a target for the bigots for a long time, I also said at the time that it would be a bad judgement to have incidents (while not all his doing) during Old Firm games as this will only incite the obvious bigots that are involved in Old Firm games.
It's a hateful atmosphere, I've been to a few games in the early nineties and didn't like them at all. The surrounding areas were dubbed with sectarian slogans that I would have seen growing up on the Falls, this was a different country which didn't have the problems that we were having, but the connection seems seamless.

what has lennon done for anyone to say he is no angel ?
FFS
MON did get death threats and his house 'attacked' during his time there.
Again if that was England, there would be outrage.
however there were a number of instances where Celtic neanderthals would stone/break windows of one or two rangers players also - but thankfully this seems to have stopped.
MON didnt receive the same kind of threats as Lennon is getting (and as is the QC and Scots Labor party MP and Celtic fan - their names escape me) - imo its the further decline of behavious and increased sectarianism towards Irish/ncatholic/celtic folk that has these incidents now worse than 10 years ago !
imo.

[Milltown Row2]

Again I was talking about managers of Celtic that came from Norn Iron who were Catholics, if you want to debate with me regarding something else then do so.
I was posting on the back of something illdecide had posted, and I didn't didn't realise that you decided what was the accepted view of all the posters on the gaaboard.
As for my view on Lennon no one deserves the abuse/threats he is getting, (already posted that when it happened) my question was simple, I'll ask again why hasn't others (from Norn Ireland) who have managed Celtic received the same as Lennon?
As to say it's not unfair to say MON would have got the same had he played for Celtic before managing is daft, with you're prediction skills could you tell me the numbers for the lotto this weekend? Aye that's right to assume something like would be silly.
Illdecide has already said he is no angel, and I believe he was a target for the bigots for a long time, I also said at the time that it would be a bad judgement to have incidents (while not all his doing) during Old Firm games as this will only incite the obvious bigots that are involved in Old Firm games.
It's a hateful atmosphere, I've been to a few games in the early nineties and didn't like them at all. The surrounding areas were dubbed with sectarian slogans that I would have seen growing up on the Falls, this was a different country which didn't have the problems that we were having, but the connection seems seamless.

what has lennon done for anyone to say he is no angel ?
FFS
MON did get death threats and his house 'attacked' during his time there.
Again if that was England, there would be outrage.
however there were a number of instances where Celtic neanderthals would stone/break windows of one or two rangers players also - but thankfully this seems to have stopped.
MON didnt receive the same kind of threats as Lennon is getting (and as is the QC and Scots Labor party MP and Celtic fan - their names escape me) - imo its the further decline of behavious and increased sectarianism towards Irish/ncatholic/celtic folk that has these incidents now worse than 10 years ago !
imo.

Lynchbhoy it was Illdecide who said this, a poster who knows him personally (unlike you), take your post up with him on that.

The level of abuse MON had is nowhere near the same and you know it. Loads of English players over the years have left clubs and joined rival clubs and got threats, same in any country, but because its religious it's different.

Are you so blind to not see sectarianism on both sides? Watch the next Old Firm game on the Falls Road, pick any bar ya want, come back and tell me that you didn't hear sectarianism being squealed at the TV

[lynchbhoy]

what has lennon done for anyone to say he is no angel ?
FFS
MON did get death threats and his house 'attacked' during his time there.
Again if that was England, there would be outrage.
however there were a number of instances where Celtic neanderthals would stone/break windows of one or two rangers players also - but thankfully this seems to have stopped.
MON didnt receive the same kind of threats as Lennon is getting (and as is the QC and Scots Labor party MP and Celtic fan - their names escape me) - imo its the further decline of behavious and increased sectarianism towards Irish/catholic/celtic folk that has these incidents now worse than 10 years ago !
imo.
[/quote]

Lynchbhoy it was Illdecide who said this, a poster who knows him personally (unlike you), take your post up with him on that.
The level of abuse MON had is nowhere near the same and you know it. Loads of English players over the years have left clubs and joined rival clubs and got threats, same in any country, but because its religious it's different.

Are you so blind to not see sectarianism on both sides? Watch the next Old Firm game on the Falls Road, pick any bar ya want, come back and tell me that you didn't hear sectarianism being squealed at the TV
[/quote]
lennon not being an angel in what way though - I am talking about from the same perception as the rangers fans/hearts fans etc have - its not down to a knowledge of the guy because we all know him personally.
he could be a prize ersehole personality wise for all I know or care, but I cannot judge him on something I cannot see.

what I am saying was that MON got abuse
he didnt get that same level of abuse then as the abuse was not as bad then.
it seems to have escalated. I would bet that if MON was back in charge now, you would see the much same thing.

falls road ?
i'm talking about sectarianism in scotland - where its certainly one sided.
I dont think its any secret that I am not fond of belfast natives on both sides of the divide. there are very few catholics/protestants/celtic fans or rangers fans from belfast that I have liked. the dislike for anyone apart from themselves  is what turns me off them - so whatever sectarianism lies in belvast on whatever side of the divide is only adding to a long list of unattractive traits they have.
imo (yep , i,m not everybody's cup of tea either).
but hopefully I wont get attacked on the golf course later, or have my house attacked or spray painted or even have bullets or nail bombs sent to me  - because i'm no angel !!

[balladmaker]

http://www.facebook.com/notes/george-galloway-mp/dying-of-shame-the-bigotry-which-dare-not-speak-its-name/161445107252900

Dying of shame: The bigotry which dare not speak its name.
by George Galloway MP on Thursday, 12 May 2011 at 09:10

Forget that rather facile comment by a legendary manager about football being more important than life or death, to a present-day one it is about just that. Or rather more specifically, death.

Neil Lennon, the manager of Celtic, is a Catholic, a republican and courageously outspoken. It shouldn't be necessary to append these adjectives to his name but it is because of them that he has received his latest live death threat, a bullet in the post. Prior to that there have been deadly letter bombs and more bullets, his home in Glasgow's West End is bristling with security devices, his wife has to go to a safe house with their child when Celtic are travelling and Lennon is under police protection, but clearly of the most cursory nature. On Wednesday evening as he stood on the touchline guiding his team to victory over Hearts at Tynecastle a home supporter leaped the wall scampered past what is laughably known as security and landed a blow before being overpowered by Lennon's coaching assistants. His assailant hasn't appeared in court yet but you couldn't get odds anywhere that the man is anything other than a virulent and violent Protestant bigot.

If Neil Lennon decides at the end of this week and the league campaign that he's chucking it in then no one would blame him. Scotland, however, would die of shame.

The reaction in Scotland has been curiously muted. It's as if that because we've lived with anti-Catholic bigotry for so long it's not unexpected, if slightly over the top. Some have even turned it onto the victims, that it's really the Tims' fault for maintaining separate schools. If those letter-bombers or that attacker had just shared a sandwich with a Catholic at play times if would never have come to this.

Some even went further. George Foulkes, Baron Foulkes of Cumnock, is a former chairman of Hearts, the club the attacker follows. He's a lickspittle Labour man with a despicable record. In 1993, he was forced to resign as Shadow Defence Minister after being convicted of being drunk and disorderly during in incident in which he struck a Police officer. And in September last year he, along with 54 other public figures, signed an open letter stating their opposition to the Pope's state visit to the UK. On Sky News on the day after the Lennon attack Foulkes joked that if Celtic moved to the Irish league that would solve the problem.

Bigotry is clearly in the genes too. His son Alex, another Hearts supporter, is a sectarian football hooligan. He was convicted of hurling abuse at Celtic fans – the longest and most sustained police officers had witnessed - and when arrested told the police they'd be in trouble because his father was an MP and his mother was on the police board.

No one would argue that Celtic fans are spotless – one was jailed this week for racial abuse of a Rangers' player – but they have never been guilty of the sustained, anthemic, sectarian chanting and singing that the Rangers support has disgraced itself over more than a century (Rangers will have to play their next European away game supporterless because of it). Their songs are rebel ones about their heritage, rather than foul abuse at the other half of the Old Firm's religion. And it was only in the mid-1980s that Rangers signed its first Catholic player. Pele couldn't have got into the team before then.

It took UEFA, the football authority, to bring the first official sanction on Rangers. Rafts of politicians, councillors and sheriffs could have done it for aeons before, but didn't. And the police have traditionally stood back and allowed the support to 'f**k the Pope' and bathe in 'Fenian blood', despite the flagrant breaches of at least two laws. Only in the last match between the two sides, after what us Scots would call a previous touchline stramash, have the police promised zero tolerance.

Where were they when this crazed numpty, who could have been carrying a knife, jumped over the barrier and launched his attack on Lennon? Given the previous history plod should have been in the dugout with him, or at least hovering in the technical area. And what about the stewards who are meant to stop these incursions? Missing in inaction! Tynecastle, Hearts ground, should now be closed until there are guarantees that such an incident can never re-occur. As should Ibrox, Rangers ground, at the first chirrup of what used to be called a party song but is better described as sectarian bile.

It isn't just the authorities who have been craven over the decades in the face of this, the left are equally guilty. In the wake of the last letter bomb to Lennon I tried to organise an anti-sectarian rally in Glasgow's George Square but my erstwhile political colleagues deliberately scuppered it. There had to be a 'balanced slate', you see, not just Catholics or Celtic supporters – presumably a Church of Scotland minister and a former 'Gers player who had recanted! – because it couldn't just be about the victims. It wasn't intended to be, but why the hell not! If Lennon had been black or Asian, or a Sighthill asylum seeker they'd have been out on the streets at the drop of a leaflet.

Scottish piety about being a tolerant country has been exploded by the sustained sectarian attacks on Lennon. It's the bigotry which dare not speak its name. To his credit the First Minister Alex Salmond, another Hearts supporter, has condemned the attack. But until there's drastic action against these sick-making Protestant hate-merchants it's just so much mouthwash. We all need to stand behind Neil Lennon. Or, perhaps more accurately, in front of him.

[paco]

While clearly a problem in both Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular, just how strong is sectarianism on a day to day basis when you take footballing rivalry out of the equation?

I have lived and worked all over Scotland for many years, and I can say that the Scottish people are every bit as friendly & hospitable as the Irish. The craic we would have at work & socialising between Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dunfermine etc supporters was great. Plenty of p*ss taking, snide remarks etc but all in good spirits

All in all, in large parts of the society I have never known it to be a problem and would not have been as wary of saying something that could be construed as being sectarian, as I would be at home.

Shamed as I am to say it, large parts of the trouble at games involving Rangers & Celtic tend to have an Irish undertone to it. Be it 1st/2nd/3rd generation lads or "supporters" in town for a boozy weekend. Other teams have a particulary nasty element to their support, but these are basic scumbags who would fight with their shadow, and football is a convienant excuse to be a thug at every opportunity i.e. hearts/celtic game

Due to Rangers/Celtic having such large fanbases it is dragged out as "Scotlands Shame" but in reality its a small hardcore of idiots, which unfortunately a lot of these migrate to the old firm (or the bigot brothers as they are regulary called here) to seek out there kicks

For all the stories and tales I hear at home about rangers fans, I have personally seen with my own eyes Celtic fans doing just as bad. For every fan of rangers that is critised, there is one equally as bad supporting Celtic in my experience. For every salt of the earth Celtic fan, there is a Rangers equivalent.

Most fans of other teams would love Rangers and Celtic to join the English league so they can get away from the circus of everything being about them, and every decision being brought back to some random historical context.

Its every bit as much our shame as theirs

So, by that logic, for every Rangers "fan" who sends bullets/bombs/etc to the opposition manager in the post, there is a Celtic "fan" doing the same?

[stew]

Neil Lennon deserves to lead a normal life, he does not deserved to be hounded and his family should not have to suffer at the habds of these vile bigots. The fact that some on here seem to think he brings it on himself is disgusting in the extreme.

I hope he stays, i hope the cops due their job and i hope that the politicians will decide this issue needs to be addressed with comprehensive new laws that will lock these cnuts up for a considerable period of time.

I have never been a Celtic fan but I hope to God they lay the wood going forward.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

...
For all the stories and tales I hear at home about rangers fans, I have personally seen with my own eyes Celtic fans doing just as bad. For every fan of rangers that is critised, there is one equally as bad supporting Celtic in my experience. For every salt of the earth Celtic fan, there is a Rangers equivalent.

Most fans of other teams would love Rangers and Celtic to join the English league so they can get away from the circus of everything being about them, and every decision being brought back to some random historical context.

Its every bit as much our shame as theirs

Sorry, but that's just self-flagellating bollox. From today's Guardian: Figures from the Crown Office [in Scotland] show there are at least 600 convictions each year for sectarian offences. A study in 2006 showed Catholics were six times more likely to be victims than Protestants.

I'm not saying that Taigs are whiter than white, far from it, but let's not be afraid to cry foul wherever it arises.

Edit: EG will be along shortly with the perfectly rational explanation that Catholics are six times more likely to report it than Protestants.

[armagho9]

While clearly a problem in both Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular, just how strong is sectarianism on a day to day basis when you take footballing rivalry out of the equation?

I have lived and worked all over Scotland for many years, and I can say that the Scottish people are every bit as friendly & hospitable as the Irish. The craic we would have at work & socialising between Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dunfermine etc supporters was great. Plenty of p*ss taking, snide remarks etc but all in good spirits

All in all, in large parts of the society I have never known it to be a problem and would not have been as wary of saying something that could be construed as being sectarian, as I would be at home.

Shamed as I am to say it, large parts of the trouble at games involving Rangers & Celtic tend to have an Irish undertone to it. Be it 1st/2nd/3rd generation lads or "supporters" in town for a boozy weekend. Other teams have a particulary nasty element to their support, but these are basic scumbags who would fight with their shadow, and football is a convienant excuse to be a thug at every opportunity i.e. hearts/celtic game

Due to Rangers/Celtic having such large fanbases it is dragged out as "Scotlands Shame" but in reality its a small hardcore of idiots, which unfortunately a lot of these migrate to the old firm (or the bigot brothers as they are regulary called here) to seek out there kicks

For all the stories and tales I hear at home about rangers fans, I have personally seen with my own eyes Celtic fans doing just as bad. For every fan of rangers that is critised, there is one equally as bad supporting Celtic in my experience. For every salt of the earth Celtic fan, there is a Rangers equivalent.

Most fans of other teams would love Rangers and Celtic to join the English league so they can get away from the circus of everything being about them, and every decision being brought back to some random historical context.

Its every bit as much our shame as theirs

Not talking about the sectarian issue but compare these, Celtic get to Uefa cup final.  50,000 fans go to Seville, no trouble of any kind (even though the mood amongst many would have been anger after the actions of the Porto players).  Celtic get award for best supporters in Europe.

Few years later, Rangers get to the final.  Their fans cause havoc in Manchester City centre before and after the match, in one incident caught on camers a large group give two police a hiding (one a woman cop).

I met a few Rangers fans myself when i was over in Glasgow for a weekend and they were sound but i am convinced that the bitterness and hatred is far worse from their side.  In many cases it is not even sectarianism it is just pure thuggery like in Manchester

[dillinger]

Reading the report from George Galloway. I like George as a broadcaster, we would share the same socialist views but he in my opinion is a bigot. He is a die hard Celtic surportor so his views are always going to be Celtic minded. George says Celtic fans sing songs about their heritage? Is singing songs about the IRA any better than Fenian blood?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Is singing songs about the IRA any better than Fenian blood?

dillinger, I fully appreciate that perspective.

You must, however, remember (or maybe you'll choose not to  ) that I would much rather the Rangers crowd sang songs in veneration of the UDA or UVF of yesterday or year, as opposed to songs about wading through my bodily fluid of life, of today.

[Evil Genius]

Edit: EG will be along shortly with the perfectly rational explanation that Catholics are six times more likely to report it than Protestants.

Er, any reason for dragging me into this? 

[bennydorano]

Good luck to the dirty fenians tomorrow, given what's been going on it would be very very sweet, heres hoping.

[sammymaguire]

Well... will Lenny's men be fortunate enough to pick up the SPL (replica) trophy at Parkhead today?

[ONeill]

The octopus is dead.

[tyroneStatto]

and they were criticising neil lennon for saying teams lie down to rangers 

disgraceful stuff by kilmarnock - 3 goals down after 7 mins, they didnt even try and pretend to have a go ffs. would this happen in any other league in world football?