The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread

[saffron sam2]

I know Neil Lennon personally, he played for our club team (clan na gael) and he also played for Armagh minors. He was a Gael back then before he choose soccer (correct decision) but when you know someone like that and have to sit back and read some of the dung people write about the man it's maddening and I'd love to write a whole lot more here only I'd be banned. Yes he's no angel and he's ruffled a few feathers but he's done no worse than managers down south have done as pointed out by another poster.

He's an Irish Catholic from Lurgan (town in it's self is full off bitter bastids) and thats why he's getting the abuse. I spoke with a Rangers fan this morning from Glasgow (season ticket holder at Ibrox) and he told me that we only think it's bad in n Ireland, that in Scotland it's actually worse and that there are many Rangers fans out there who actually want to see him murdered and that he wouldn't be surprised if he was found dead one day soon...that is scary shit.

So to all you lads out there who think he deserves the abuse i say...go f**k yourselves no i mean have a good look at yourselves in the mirror

Martin O'Neill was from Derry (Kilrea?) full of bitter bastids (on both sides off course ) It's strange that he never got the same abuse. No one should be getting the abuse he has got since taking over as manager and from the time he stopped playing for Norn Iron. Will this happen to all mangers from Irish decent who take over the Celtic jobs in the future?

Talk us through Martin O'Neill's Celtic playing career.

[RedandGreenSniper]

I think there are two separate issues here and they shouldn't be morphed into one. Some here are saying that Lennon's behaviour is why he is getting the abuse he is. That's not right. That's almost absolving the guilt of the attackers. They need to be pursued swiftly and with the full rigour of the law. It is an awful blight on the game in Scotland.

But I think we can talk about Lennon's behaviour too. People are comparing him to O'Neill, Moyes, Ferguson et al. I don't remember any of them engaging bitterly with an opposition player, even if it was someone as hateful as Diouf. And I certainly don't recall any of them going nose to nose with someone from the opposition management like Lennon did with McCoist. He's the most volatile manager I've ever seen in Scotland or England, including Neil Warnock. It doesn't for one second give anyone the right to do what they are doing and these people should be chased from football grounds for good. But it is not contradictory to say that Lennon is aware of the 'type' of supporters in Scottish football and while to say that any of these threats to him are his fault would be wrong, better behaviour from his on the sideline would probably help things. Ridding these thugs from the stands is not going to happen overnight. Hopefully the Scottish FA and the police will start to act a lot more swiftly than they have been. In the mean time Neil Lennon does need to ease up a little himself as well.

So wengers refusal to shake daglishs hand a few weeks ago and the views exchanged arent any different?
What about pulis and Hughes earlier in the season?
Wengers oubursts at players who injure his players.
Gary Nevilles behaviour in manchester derbys as well as against liverpool.
There are many more examples where behaviour by mangers/players south of the border can be classed as intimadation/stupidity/bad behaviour or whatever people want to class it as.
However i dont hear the same resentment towards some of the above.

What about Martin O Neill?
Everyone remembers his running up and down a touchline jumping like a looney everytime celtic scored whether it be parkhead,easter road,ibrox or pittodrie.
Yet this was seen as accepatable.
If lennon did the same he would condemened for it and said to be spreading hatred.

The examples you give - only Pulis and Hughes are comparable. But that was only one incident and not between such bitter rivals where such behaviour is hardly well advised. Gary Neville's cheering in front of the Liverpool supporters was severely criticised, arguably more so than Lennon's interaction with Diouf. Lennon has been involved in several incidents, more than anyone else at at that level of football. And as for O'Neill celebrating, that hardly helped but wouldn't engender trouble in the same way as nearly coming to blows with opposition management and players.

Lennon's passion is seen as a quality by many people. It is frightening that others would see it as an opportunity to try to kill him. It is frightening. Of course these people are the chief problem and ought to caught and punished appropriately. But the sad reality of modern society is that these people exist and people in such influential and powerful positions as Neil Lennon need to be aware of that fact. I wish I could say I was shocked and surprised when I heard he had been sent a suspect device, threatened with murder and attacked by a supporter. But I wasn't. I was angered, saddened, yes. But not surprised.

[Milltown Row2]

I know Neil Lennon personally, he played for our club team (clan na gael) and he also played for Armagh minors. He was a Gael back then before he choose soccer (correct decision) but when you know someone like that and have to sit back and read some of the dung people write about the man it's maddening and I'd love to write a whole lot more here only I'd be banned. Yes he's no angel and he's ruffled a few feathers but he's done no worse than managers down south have done as pointed out by another poster.

He's an Irish Catholic from Lurgan (town in it's self is full off bitter bastids) and thats why he's getting the abuse. I spoke with a Rangers fan this morning from Glasgow (season ticket holder at Ibrox) and he told me that we only think it's bad in n Ireland, that in Scotland it's actually worse and that there are many Rangers fans out there who actually want to see him murdered and that he wouldn't be surprised if he was found dead one day soon...that is scary shit.

So to all you lads out there who think he deserves the abuse i say...go f**k yourselves no i mean have a good look at yourselves in the mirror

Martin O'Neill was from Derry (Kilrea?) full of bitter bastids (on both sides off course ) It's strange that he never got the same abuse. No one should be getting the abuse he has got since taking over as manager and from the time he stopped playing for Norn Iron. Will this happen to all mangers from Irish decent who take over the Celtic jobs in the future?

Talk us through Martin O'Neill's Celtic playing career.

Sam I'll PM my address if you want to stalk me properly, I'm struggling to find where I said MON played for Celtic, but you go on ahead ya knob

[saffron sam2]

I know Neil Lennon personally, he played for our club team (clan na gael) and he also played for Armagh minors. He was a Gael back then before he choose soccer (correct decision) but when you know someone like that and have to sit back and read some of the dung people write about the man it's maddening and I'd love to write a whole lot more here only I'd be banned. Yes he's no angel and he's ruffled a few feathers but he's done no worse than managers down south have done as pointed out by another poster.

He's an Irish Catholic from Lurgan (town in it's self is full off bitter bastids) and thats why he's getting the abuse. I spoke with a Rangers fan this morning from Glasgow (season ticket holder at Ibrox) and he told me that we only think it's bad in n Ireland, that in Scotland it's actually worse and that there are many Rangers fans out there who actually want to see him murdered and that he wouldn't be surprised if he was found dead one day soon...that is scary shit.

So to all you lads out there who think he deserves the abuse i say...go f**k yourselves no i mean have a good look at yourselves in the mirror

Martin O'Neill was from Derry (Kilrea?) full of bitter bastids (on both sides off course ) It's strange that he never got the same abuse. No one should be getting the abuse he has got since taking over as manager and from the time he stopped playing for Norn Iron. Will this happen to all mangers from Irish decent who take over the Celtic jobs in the future?

Talk us through Martin O'Neill's Celtic playing career.

Sam I'll PM my address if you want to stalk me properly, I'm struggling to find where I said MON played for Celtic, but you go on ahead ya knob

Okay, I'll make my point nice and simple for you. You are comparing apples with oranges. Neil Lennon's problems started when he joined Celtic as a player. There was the infamous booing at Windsor Park by, I'm told, a faction, almost all standing in a group on the Kop, who were 90% Linfield/Rangers fans who turned up especially for this game (It was NL's first at home after joining Celtic). There was the death threat. Now, it is not unfair to assume that had O'Neill joined Celtic as a player that he would have suffered a similar fate, both at Windsor and in Scotland. Had he then gone on to manage Celtic almost directly after his playing career ended, he too would likely have got the Lennon treatment. You simply cannot compare O'Neill's and Lennon's treatment as Celtic managers.

Can I assume you are another who thinks Lennon is somehow responsible for the reprehensible actions of others?

As for the other nonsense, no need to PM your address - I already have it. No stalking either, just don't want anyone to read your nonsense and think that it represents the orthodoxy of the gaaboard.

Wally.

[rossie mad]

I think there are two separate issues here and they shouldn't be morphed into one. Some here are saying that Lennon's behaviour is why he is getting the abuse he is. That's not right. That's almost absolving the guilt of the attackers. They need to be pursued swiftly and with the full rigour of the law. It is an awful blight on the game in Scotland.

But I think we can talk about Lennon's behaviour too. People are comparing him to O'Neill, Moyes, Ferguson et al. I don't remember any of them engaging bitterly with an opposition player, even if it was someone as hateful as Diouf. And I certainly don't recall any of them going nose to nose with someone from the opposition management like Lennon did with McCoist. He's the most volatile manager I've ever seen in Scotland or England, including Neil Warnock. It doesn't for one second give anyone the right to do what they are doing and these people should be chased from football grounds for good. But it is not contradictory to say that Lennon is aware of the 'type' of supporters in Scottish football and while to say that any of these threats to him are his fault would be wrong, better behaviour from his on the sideline would probably help things. Ridding these thugs from the stands is not going to happen overnight. Hopefully the Scottish FA and the police will start to act a lot more swiftly than they have been. In the mean time Neil Lennon does need to ease up a little himself as well.

So wengers refusal to shake daglishs hand a few weeks ago and the views exchanged arent any different?
What about pulis and Hughes earlier in the season?
Wengers oubursts at players who injure his players.
Gary Nevilles behaviour in manchester derbys as well as against liverpool.
There are many more examples where behaviour by mangers/players south of the border can be classed as intimadation/stupidity/bad behaviour or whatever people want to class it as.
However i dont hear the same resentment towards some of the above.

What about Martin O Neill?
Everyone remembers his running up and down a touchline jumping like a looney everytime celtic scored whether it be parkhead,easter road,ibrox or pittodrie.
Yet this was seen as accepatable.
If lennon did the same he would condemened for it and said to be spreading hatred.

The examples you give - only Pulis and Hughes are comparable. But that was only one incident and not between such bitter rivals where such behaviour is hardly well advised. Gary Neville's cheering in front of the Liverpool supporters was severely criticised, arguably more so than Lennon's interaction with Diouf. Lennon has been involved in several incidents, more than anyone else at at that level of football. And as for O'Neill celebrating, that hardly helped but wouldn't engender trouble in the same way as nearly coming to blows with opposition management and players.

Lennon's passion is seen as a quality by many people. It is frightening that others would see it as an opportunity to try to kill him. It is frightening. Of course these people are the chief problem and ought to caught and punished appropriately. But the sad reality of modern society is that these people exist and people in such influential and powerful positions as Neil Lennon need to be aware of that fact. I wish I could say I was shocked and surprised when I heard he had been sent a suspect device, threatened with murder and attacked by a supporter. But I wasn't. I was angered, saddened, yes. But not surprised.

I think i can see where your coming from there.
However the attitude towards lennon by some people on here seems to suggest he deserves it.
In other words there are people on here who in a roundabout way seem to be justifying what is happeneing to him.
If people say that he puts in for alot of this or its his own fault then in my eyes these people who say this are justifying what is happening to him.

[lynchbhoy]

I think there are two separate issues here and they shouldn't be morphed into one. Some here are saying that Lennon's behaviour is why he is getting the abuse he is. That's not right. That's almost absolving the guilt of the attackers. They need to be pursued swiftly and with the full rigour of the law. It is an awful blight on the game in Scotland.

But I think we can talk about Lennon's behaviour too. People are comparing him to O'Neill, Moyes, Ferguson et al. I don't remember any of them engaging bitterly with an opposition player, even if it was someone as hateful as Diouf. And I certainly don't recall any of them going nose to nose with someone from the opposition management like Lennon did with McCoist. He's the most volatile manager I've ever seen in Scotland or England, including Neil Warnock. It doesn't for one second give anyone the right to do what they are doing and these people should be chased from football grounds for good. But it is not contradictory to say that Lennon is aware of the 'type' of supporters in Scottish football and while to say that any of these threats to him are his fault would be wrong, better behaviour from his on the sideline would probably help things. Ridding these thugs from the stands is not going to happen overnight. Hopefully the Scottish FA and the police will start to act a lot more swiftly than they have been. In the mean time Neil Lennon does need to ease up a little himself as well.

So wengers refusal to shake daglishs hand a few weeks ago and the views exchanged arent any different?
What about pulis and Hughes earlier in the season?
Wengers oubursts at players who injure his players.
Gary Nevilles behaviour in manchester derbys as well as against liverpool.
There are many more examples where behaviour by mangers/players south of the border can be classed as intimadation/stupidity/bad behaviour or whatever people want to class it as.
However i dont hear the same resentment towards some of the above.

What about Martin O Neill?
Everyone remembers his running up and down a touchline jumping like a looney everytime celtic scored whether it be parkhead,easter road,ibrox or pittodrie.
Yet this was seen as accepatable.
If lennon did the same he would condemened for it and said to be spreading hatred.

The examples you give - only Pulis and Hughes are comparable. But that was only one incident and not between such bitter rivals where such behaviour is hardly well advised. Gary Neville's cheering in front of the Liverpool supporters was severely criticised, arguably more so than Lennon's interaction with Diouf. Lennon has been involved in several incidents, more than anyone else at at that level of football. And as for O'Neill celebrating, that hardly helped but wouldn't engender trouble in the same way as nearly coming to blows with opposition management and players.

Lennon's passion is seen as a quality by many people. It is frightening that others would see it as an opportunity to try to kill him. It is frightening. Of course these people are the chief problem and ought to caught and punished appropriately. But the sad reality of modern society is that these people exist and people in such influential and powerful positions as Neil Lennon need to be aware of that fact. I wish I could say I was shocked and surprised when I heard he had been sent a suspect device, threatened with murder and attacked by a supporter. But I wasn't. I was angered, saddened, yes. But not surprised.

i'd expect you are not surprised because you obv realise the kind of knuckle dragger anti Irish/catholic/celtic ethos that exists in scotland.

i'd say that if this happened in england, with Lennon/ferguson/wenger/pullis/holloway etc as the manager involved- you woul dbe astonished!

my point is, that is isnt Lennon that is the factor, its the location and the sectarian fans (I mean the anti Irish/catholic/celtic element - the other fans of Aberdeen, dundee etc as well as the Celtic support are nothing like the crowd that are causing the hassle).

[gallsman]

While clearly a problem in both Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular, just how strong is sectarianism on a day to day basis when you take footballing rivalry out of the equation?

[lynchbhoy]

While clearly a problem in both Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular, just how strong is sectarianism on a day to day basis when you take footballing rivalry out of the equation?

while staying at the jurys hotel in glasgows then fashionable west end in early/mid 90's I came across a very surly lounge girl waitress who fired the drinks at us with grunts and was at odds with the rest of the hotel staff mannerisms.
I tried to talk to her and see what the problem was (in a chatty up way rather than asking her outright) - it turned out that she was a rangers fan and copped on that the four lads in our group were Irish and for that reason alone 'disliked us'
as we were obv Irish/catholic/celtic fans (she was correct on all three).
However after talking to her, she softened up a fair bit and wasnt as hostile, maybe not 'nice' but normal enough.
if thats what a young 19/20 year old is like, what are the older generation like.
that reminds me.
Driving back to Edinburgh airport after Celtic beat dunfermiline 3-1 in Larssons last meaningful Celtic game, I was behind a Celtic supporters bus. passing the infamous 'louden tavern' there was a man aged approx 50 something throwing stones and bits of bricks at the passing Celtic supporters busses.
what a sc**bag.

Lived in London for a while and was friendly with a few rangers fans there. My father used to have two jock brothers over the the house when we lived in england as kids, one was a rangers fan , the other a celtic fan. I've worked with scottish rangers fans in Dublin too. Most decent. The only 'bad' one I met was one that was from belfast and a north of Ireland supporter. he obv just didnt want to be in Dublin, and was ignorant to everyone, inc the jock ranger fans !

[gallsman]

Thanks for that lb. Doesn't really answer the question though as I asked about sectarianism after removing the footballing aspect from it.

[clootfromthe21]

While clearly a problem in both Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular, just how strong is sectarianism on a day to day basis when you take footballing rivalry out of the equation?

I'm curious about that as well Gallsman.

Without getting into the whole "we are not as bad as them" debate, while the Celtic Rangers thing historically is entirely/mostly/a wee bit (take your pick) a result of sectarianism, is the Celtic Rangers thing now becoming a cause of (or at least perpetuates) sectarianism in that people begin to follow one or the other and, in the course of following their team, "buy-in" to some of the more extreme aspects of same?

[lynchbhoy]

Thanks for that lb. Doesn't really answer the question though as I asked about sectarianism after removing the footballing aspect from it.

well the first incident was nothing to do with 'football'. while the girl was a rangers fan, it wasnt that we were soccer fans she disliked. this was mid week when we were in glasgow. it was obv bred into her that Irish/catholics were some kind of monster and the 'enemy'.
only after I spoke to her she realised we were not.
I dont accept that she was openly hostile to us because she 'thought' we were Celtic fans - it was far more obviously deeper than that.

[Milltown Row2]

I know Neil Lennon personally, he played for our club team (clan na gael) and he also played for Armagh minors. He was a Gael back then before he choose soccer (correct decision) but when you know someone like that and have to sit back and read some of the dung people write about the man it's maddening and I'd love to write a whole lot more here only I'd be banned. Yes he's no angel and he's ruffled a few feathers but he's done no worse than managers down south have done as pointed out by another poster.

He's an Irish Catholic from Lurgan (town in it's self is full off bitter bastids) and thats why he's getting the abuse. I spoke with a Rangers fan this morning from Glasgow (season ticket holder at Ibrox) and he told me that we only think it's bad in n Ireland, that in Scotland it's actually worse and that there are many Rangers fans out there who actually want to see him murdered and that he wouldn't be surprised if he was found dead one day soon...that is scary shit.

So to all you lads out there who think he deserves the abuse i say...go f**k yourselves no i mean have a good look at yourselves in the mirror

Martin O'Neill was from Derry (Kilrea?) full of bitter bastids (on both sides off course ) It's strange that he never got the same abuse. No one should be getting the abuse he has got since taking over as manager and from the time he stopped playing for Norn Iron. Will this happen to all mangers from Irish decent who take over the Celtic jobs in the future?

Talk us through Martin O'Neill's Celtic playing career.

Sam I'll PM my address if you want to stalk me properly, I'm struggling to find where I said MON played for Celtic, but you go on ahead ya knob

Okay, I'll make my point nice and simple for you. You are comparing apples with oranges. Neil Lennon's problems started when he joined Celtic as a player. There was the infamous booing at Windsor Park by, I'm told, a faction, almost all standing in a group on the Kop, who were 90% Linfield/Rangers fans who turned up especially for this game (It was NL's first at home after joining Celtic). There was the death threat. Now, it is not unfair to assume that had O'Neill joined Celtic as a player that he would have suffered a similar fate, both at Windsor and in Scotland. Had he then gone on to manage Celtic almost directly after his playing career ended, he too would likely have got the Lennon treatment. You simply cannot compare O'Neill's and Lennon's treatment as Celtic managers.

Can I assume you are another who thinks Lennon is somehow responsible for the reprehensible actions of others?

As for the other nonsense, no need to PM your address - I already have it. No stalking either, just don't want anyone to read your nonsense and think that it represents the orthodoxy of the gaaboard.

Wally.

Again I was talking about managers of Celtic that came from Norn Iron who were Catholics, if you want to debate with me regarding something else then do so.

I was posting on the back of something illdecide had posted, and I didn't didn't realise that you decided what was the accepted view of all the posters on the gaaboard.

As for my view on Lennon no one deserves the abuse/threats he is getting, (already posted that when it happened) my question was simple, I'll ask again why hasn't others (from Norn Ireland) who have managed Celtic received the same as Lennon?

As to say it's not unfair to say MON would have got the same had he played for Celtic before managing is daft, with you're prediction skills could you tell me the numbers for the lotto this weekend? Aye that's right to assume something like would be silly.


Illdecide has already said he is no angel, and I believe he was a target for the bigots for a long time, I also said at the time that it would be a bad judgement to have incidents (while not all his doing) during Old Firm games as this will only incite the obvious bigots that are involved in Old Firm games.

It's a hateful atmosphere, I've been to a few games in the early nineties and didn't like them at all. The surrounding areas were dubbed with sectarian slogans that I would have seen growing up on the Falls, this was a different country which didn't have the problems that we were having, but the connection seems seamless.

[RedandGreenSniper]

I think there are two separate issues here and they shouldn't be morphed into one. Some here are saying that Lennon's behaviour is why he is getting the abuse he is. That's not right. That's almost absolving the guilt of the attackers. They need to be pursued swiftly and with the full rigour of the law. It is an awful blight on the game in Scotland.

But I think we can talk about Lennon's behaviour too. People are comparing him to O'Neill, Moyes, Ferguson et al. I don't remember any of them engaging bitterly with an opposition player, even if it was someone as hateful as Diouf. And I certainly don't recall any of them going nose to nose with someone from the opposition management like Lennon did with McCoist. He's the most volatile manager I've ever seen in Scotland or England, including Neil Warnock. It doesn't for one second give anyone the right to do what they are doing and these people should be chased from football grounds for good. But it is not contradictory to say that Lennon is aware of the 'type' of supporters in Scottish football and while to say that any of these threats to him are his fault would be wrong, better behaviour from his on the sideline would probably help things. Ridding these thugs from the stands is not going to happen overnight. Hopefully the Scottish FA and the police will start to act a lot more swiftly than they have been. In the mean time Neil Lennon does need to ease up a little himself as well.

So wengers refusal to shake daglishs hand a few weeks ago and the views exchanged arent any different?
What about pulis and Hughes earlier in the season?
Wengers oubursts at players who injure his players.
Gary Nevilles behaviour in manchester derbys as well as against liverpool.
There are many more examples where behaviour by mangers/players south of the border can be classed as intimadation/stupidity/bad behaviour or whatever people want to class it as.
However i dont hear the same resentment towards some of the above.

What about Martin O Neill?
Everyone remembers his running up and down a touchline jumping like a looney everytime celtic scored whether it be parkhead,easter road,ibrox or pittodrie.
Yet this was seen as accepatable.
If lennon did the same he would condemened for it and said to be spreading hatred.

The examples you give - only Pulis and Hughes are comparable. But that was only one incident and not between such bitter rivals where such behaviour is hardly well advised. Gary Neville's cheering in front of the Liverpool supporters was severely criticised, arguably more so than Lennon's interaction with Diouf. Lennon has been involved in several incidents, more than anyone else at at that level of football. And as for O'Neill celebrating, that hardly helped but wouldn't engender trouble in the same way as nearly coming to blows with opposition management and players.

Lennon's passion is seen as a quality by many people. It is frightening that others would see it as an opportunity to try to kill him. It is frightening. Of course these people are the chief problem and ought to caught and punished appropriately. But the sad reality of modern society is that these people exist and people in such influential and powerful positions as Neil Lennon need to be aware of that fact. I wish I could say I was shocked and surprised when I heard he had been sent a suspect device, threatened with murder and attacked by a supporter. But I wasn't. I was angered, saddened, yes. But not surprised.

i'd expect you are not surprised because you obv realise the kind of knuckle dragger anti Irish/catholic/celtic ethos that exists in scotland.

i'd say that if this happened in england, with Lennon/ferguson/wenger/pullis/holloway etc as the manager involved- you woul dbe astonished!

my point is, that is isnt Lennon that is the factor, its the location and the sectarian fans (I mean the anti Irish/catholic/celtic element - the other fans of Aberdeen, dundee etc as well as the Celtic support are nothing like the crowd that are causing the hassle).

Yes, it is the sectarian element of supporters I refer to. It would be a shock if it happened in England. That virus needs to be run from the Scottish game, it is why so many people are being turned off it. But the slightly nuanced part of my point is that this isn't going to happen overnight. In the mean time those involved - Celtic/Rangers players and managers etc - ought to be aware of the poison that is out there and act accordingly. This isn't blaming Lennon for what happened, just arguing that he and others like him need to act in a certain restrained way. Is that hard luck on them? Yeah, it probably is. But I don't see where he has a choice.

[wanderer]

While clearly a problem in both Scotland in general and Glasgow in particular, just how strong is sectarianism on a day to day basis when you take footballing rivalry out of the equation?

I have lived and worked all over Scotland for many years, and I can say that the Scottish people are every bit as friendly & hospitable as the Irish. The craic we would have at work & socialising between Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dunfermine etc supporters was great. Plenty of p*ss taking, snide remarks etc but all in good spirits

All in all, in large parts of the society I have never known it to be a problem and would not have been as wary of saying something that could be construed as being sectarian, as I would be at home.

Shamed as I am to say it, large parts of the trouble at games involving Rangers & Celtic tend to have an Irish undertone to it. Be it 1st/2nd/3rd generation lads or "supporters" in town for a boozy weekend. Other teams have a particulary nasty element to their support, but these are basic scumbags who would fight with their shadow, and football is a convienant excuse to be a thug at every opportunity i.e. hearts/celtic game

Due to Rangers/Celtic having such large fanbases it is dragged out as "Scotlands Shame" but in reality its a small hardcore of idiots, which unfortunately a lot of these migrate to the old firm (or the bigot brothers as they are regulary called here) to seek out there kicks

For all the stories and tales I hear at home about rangers fans, I have personally seen with my own eyes Celtic fans doing just as bad. For every fan of rangers that is critised, there is one equally as bad supporting Celtic in my experience. For every salt of the earth Celtic fan, there is a Rangers equivalent.

Most fans of other teams would love Rangers and Celtic to join the English league so they can get away from the circus of everything being about them, and every decision being brought back to some random historical context.

Its every bit as much our shame as theirs

[lynchbhoy]

Yes, it is the sectarian element of supporters I refer to. It would be a shock if it happened in England. That virus needs to be run from the Scottish game, it is why so many people are being turned off it. But the slightly nuanced part of my point is that this isn't going to happen overnight. In the mean time those involved - Celtic/Rangers players and managers etc - ought to be aware of the poison that is out there and act accordingly. This isn't blaming Lennon for what happened, just arguing that he and others like him need to act in a certain restrained way. Is that hard luck on them? Yeah, it probably is. But I don't see where he has a choice.

fair enough.
though its that last point exactly that I have the problem with.
why should people around the world have to tailor their behaviour because of fear for what some lawless erseholes might do ?
I never accepted this for the nationalist/Irish/catholic people in the north of Ireland, I dont accept it in parts of the fundamentalist islamic world, I dont accept this in the old oppressive Irish Catholic church scenario, I wont and dont accept this in scotland either.