Páraic Duffy speaks out!

[irunthev]

OK - here's a very simple question for Paraic Duffy


- Is Martin McElkennon taking home over over £3,000 per month for training Monaghan?


Adb  - If he cares to elaboarte
Has Martin McElkennon been the first fulltime paid coach of a county team over the past 2 years?


Maybe since he's a neighbour of his and trainer of his own county team he can answer that?

On the subject of McElkennon, I know people say he is a great trainer etc etc, but what success has he had? It has ben rumoured that he is getting paid for quite some time from different sources... but I don't see any silverware beside his name. Surely, if he is receiving the money he is meant to be, then there must be some tangible success

[Hardy]

i agree 100% with his remarks

money being given to managers could be used to fund full time/part time coaches to ensure kids in schools get to play GAA games

I don't often agree with Rossies but I do on this issue.

It is hypocrisy in the extreme to argue that managers nowadays can't be expected to do it for nothing and then attack players for looking for money. What's good for the goose is good for the manager.

This is very simple. Gaelic games are either amateur or they are not.

IMHO managers should not be paid while the game remains amateur.

I disagree, Muppet. The players are the participants, the beneficiaries of the services the rest of the organisation provides so that they can participate. The organisation pays all sorts of professionals for services to support the games. If we pay physiotherapists, landscapers and bus drivers, why should we single out managers as the only service providers whom we expect to provide their services for nothing?

[cornafean]

If there are financial compliance issues or malpractices happening within an organisation, the chief executive of that organisation should be resolving them and taking steps to ensure that they do not recur. The last thing they should do is air unsubstantiated allegations in the media regarding any such issues or malpractices.

[rrhf]

Duffy may have started a witchhunt here that needs addressing. With talk of managers being appointed with commission on shirt sales abounding its time for the GAA to bring in a parish or county rule about management and coaching.  I think its a fair enough assumption that most people managing outside their own loyalties are not just doing it for the love of the game.   
If counties need development coaching to bring them to the next level ,then that is addressed and provided for and monitored by provinical councils.

[tonesfirstandlast]

If there are financial compliance issues or malpractices happening within an organisation, the chief executive of that organisation should be resolving them and taking steps to ensure that they do not recur. The last thing they should do is air unsubstantiated allegations in the media regarding any such issues or malpractices.

That's what I would have thought

[Zulu]

Duffy may have started a witchhunt here that needs addressing. With talk of managers being appointed with commission on shirt sales abounding its time for the GAA to bring in a parish or county rule about management and coaching.  I think its a fair enough assumption that most people managing outside their own loyalties are not just doing it for the love of the game.   
If counties need development coaching to bring them to the next level ,then that is addressed and provided for and monitored by provinical councils.

I'd disagree with that tbh, having lived in a few of the weaker counties I know only too well the difficulties that weaker counties face and the positive effect bringing in an outside manager can make. Anyway most of these counties would need an army of development coaches to make a real difference, besides development officers aren't an option for clubs so if you have a parish rule for coaches then the best will only ever be able to work for their own club while other clubs may not be able to get a coach at all. If we were to do as you suggest we could have a situation where an excellent coach couldn't coach anyone (if he fell out with those running his own club or the players) and other clubs who could be managed by a clueless club stalwart because they have nobody of the necessary quality, which is true of most clubs.

To my mind this is a situation where the GAA has naturally evolved, which though technically against the rules is something that is both necessary and demanded by most clubs and counties. The one thing I would suggest to clubs and counties is if you're bringing in an outside coach and if you are going to pay him a large sum of money do so on the basis that he works with you to develop your underage set up, that he visits clubs and schools (if he is the county coach) or he visits the local school and does work with the underage coaches (if he is a club coach).

[magpie seanie]

i agree 100% with his remarks

money being given to managers could be used to fund full time/part time coaches to ensure kids in schools get to play GAA games

I don't often agree with Rossies but I do on this issue.

It is hypocrisy in the extreme to argue that managers nowadays can't be expected to do it for nothing and then attack players for looking for money. What's good for the goose is good for the manager.

This is very simple. Gaelic games are either amateur or they are not.

IMHO managers should not be paid while the game remains amateur.

I disagree, Muppet. The players are the participants, the beneficiaries of the services the rest of the organisation provides so that they can participate. The organisation pays all sorts of professionals for services to support the games. If we pay physiotherapists, landscapers and bus drivers, why should we single out managers as the only service providers whom we expect to provide their services for nothing?

I can see the logic in that but it creates other difficulties. Those with the biggest cheque books get the best managers - is that a situation we would support (I know in practice that is probably what is happening anyway). There should be a set payment allowed for intercounty managers and it should be paid centrally from Croke Park (not my idea - someone mentioned it to me last week and it makes sense). Either that or completely ban payments above mileage etc and ruthlessly adhere to this. Level the playing field.

[haranguerer]

Peter Quinn when president organised a task force to investigate under the table payments to managers. He reported back that they couldn't find the tables let alone the money !!!   


There are club managers who are getting damn near to € 30k.

It might turn out Quinn should have looked closer to home.

Mebbe his brothers office?? 

I'm happy with it the way it is - pay away, but let on you're not

[Zulu]

I can see the logic in that but it creates other difficulties. Those with the biggest cheque books get the best managers - is that a situation we would support (I know in practice that is probably what is happening anyway). There should be a set payment allowed for intercounty managers and it should be paid centrally from Croke Park (not my idea - someone mentioned it to me last week and it makes sense). Either that or completely ban payments above mileage etc and ruthlessly adhere to this. Level the playing field

I don't think either is the way to go tbh, talk of banning payments simply isn't an option there has never been a service that people want it and when you ban it, people stop wanting it. Paying coaches is here to stay, the only question is how best to manage it and unless the GAA make it legal under the rules of the association then the way it is at the moment is probably the best scenario. I don't think the ones with the biggest cheque book are necessarily getting the best coaches, most coaches are taking jobs on a geographical basis (not all I know) rather than a monetary one. And while there are some big numbers being quoted here they are the exception rather than the rule from my experience anyway, and I've heard of rugby coaches getting €70-80K for coaching amateur teams that get smaller crowds than I've had in my sitting room watching the Sunday Game. We do too much hand ringing about too many things in the GAA, if ain't broke and all that.

[Lar Naparka]

I am sick to death listening to rumours and unsubstantiated allegations about under the counter paymentsm and to hear them repeated by a leading official beggars belief. Duffy should provide evidence or consider his position, he cant have it both ways.

I most heartily second that sentiment. Duffy and Nicky Brennan before him went public on several occasions to berate county boards that gave under the table payments to their managers. Now Duffy has upped the ante somewhat by putting a figure on the amount in a specific case and also revealing the source of this payment.
My initial reaction to this news was, "If he has all those details, why isn't action being taken?"
Really, is there any benefit to be gained from him or other blazers at HQ beating their breasts in public about nefarious activities that appear to be widespread within the association? I think it's negatives all the way unless they intend taking concrete action.
Every manager in Ulster will now come under suspicion, most unfairly, and those to whom he alludes are put on their guard and will take steps to hide their tracks.
Another negative I feel is the fact that now a figure is in the public domain, other managers will start considering parity of esteem, as it were.
I very much doubt that illegal payments are the sole preserve of Ulster counties and even if the continual moaning from Croke Park is all I have to go by, I'd say the practice of payments to managers is very widespread.
Here, I'd agree with Hardy; why not accept the inevitable and give managers a reasonable compensation for their labour and out of pocket expenses?
At best, a reasonable case can be made for such payments. At worst, an occasional blast from headquarters to acknowledge that the practice exists and is commonplace, while doing nothing about it, only makes a bad situation worse.

[uselessfootballer]

As the GAA has allowed for the payment of retainers or inflated expenses to managers/trainers/coaches to develop with its knowledge (official or otherwise) I think that rather than make public comment about this alleged case or that alleged sase the association should concentrate on putting in place a process that manages out the worst of these practices.

My suggestion would be that at club level no club should be allowed to make expenses payments directly to players, coaches, managers, trainers, physios, doctors etc. All claims for payments should be made to the County Board who should in turn bill the club.
Similarly at county level all expenses claims should be handled by the respective provincial boards and not the county boards who would in turn be billed by the provincial board. These steps would bring a little more clarity and openness to the process. Unfortunately it wouldn't stop ilegal undeclared payments from individual bussiness men to managers etc but it would serve to isolate these as illegal undeclared payments.

My own small Junior club spent approx 30% of its income last year on payments (exxpenses) to the manager of its senior team. now this club had  5 other teams in competition last year (more this year) but only one person associated with one team warranted the payment of expenses.
I don't believe the situation is right and I feel that the use of this money for this purpose in my club is stifiling the development of other areas of the club. On one occasion when I was washing the reserve team shirts, 2 of them fell apart in the washing machine such was their age and state of repair. As my club only has 1 pitch we are in need of some grade of lighting on at least some of the pitch to allow evening outdoor training outside of the summer months.   These and other investment needs are made more unlikely by the payment of so called expenses to the senior team manager

[orangeman]

Has anybody tried to add up the total bill for outside managers in club football / hurling

Take Tyrone - most football clubs are paying - not all of them are - but the majority I would guess are paying and I'd say most club teams have some sort of external influence.

In division one I'd say the bill is approx. £150k - anyone else care to hazard a guess 150K is a lot of money on average given that some of the 16 teams aren't paying at all.

No point fooling ourselves - who pays it is irelevant - it's being paid.

Should it be paid ?? That's another question.

[Zulu]

As the GAA has allowed for the payment of retainers or inflated expenses to managers/trainers/coaches to develop with its knowledge (official or otherwise) I think that rather than make public comment about this alleged case or that alleged sase the association should concentrate on putting in place a process that manages out the worst of these practices.

My suggestion would be that at club level no club should be allowed to make expenses payments directly to players, coaches, managers, trainers, physios, doctors etc. All claims for payments should be made to the County Board who should in turn bill the club.
Similarly at county level all expenses claims should be handled by the respective provincial boards and not the county boards who would in turn be billed by the provincial board. These steps would bring a little more clarity and openness to the process. Unfortunately it wouldn't stop ilegal undeclared payments from individual bussiness men to managers etc but it would serve to isolate these as illegal undeclared payments.

My own small Junior club spent approx 30% of its income last year on payments (exxpenses) to the manager of its senior team. now this club had  5 other teams in competition last year (more this year) but only one person associated with one team warranted the payment of expenses.
I don't believe the situation is right and I feel that the use of this money for this purpose in my club is stifiling the development of other areas of the club. On one occasion when I was washing the reserve team shirts, 2 of them fell apart in the washing machine such was their age and state of repair. As my club only has 1 pitch we are in need of some grade of lighting on at least some of the pitch to allow evening outdoor training outside of the summer months.   These and other investment needs are made more unlikely by the payment of so called expenses to the senior team manager

If what you say is true I would suggest your club is being poorly served by those charged with running it, why don't you bring a motion to your clubs agm that all and any payments to coaches should be stopped and the money used to upgrade facilities etc.? It would be much better practice for a club to pay a coach to run their underage set up than their adult team as this might lead to a sustainable level of success at all grades.

[saffron sam2]

I hear big McGilligan's interview for the Derry job was some craic altogether.

Does he know Duffy?

Duffy, by the way, has made himself out to be a bit of a clown with this interjection.

[Logan]

The only thing I think is so stupid about this is that it's only become an issue now!

We know this has been going on for 10 years at least.

Now it's a big elephant in the room.

What about players getting paid?
Who was paying the big money for the Mullaghbawn/Na Fianna man while he was the first professional footballer - or even Larry by the Lee before that?