Tyrone Club Football and Hurling

[dhá chos chlé]

Will this all be finalised by tonight up at garvaghy?

[RedhandEastie]

With regard to recently published set of fixtures - I though since Edendork are making use of AI to write letters - id do the same to analyse the proposed fixtures.

The starred rounds are basically split into 2 groups
County-heavy starred group

These teams mostly play each other in Rounds 1–7:

Club   County players missing
Errigal Ciaran   5
Edendork   4
Loughmacrory   4
Coalisland   3
Donaghmore   3
Trillick   3
Eglish           2
Killyclogher   1

That group has 25 county players affected.

Low/no county-player starred group

These teams mostly play each other in Rounds 1–7:

Club   County players missing
Omagh           1
Carrickmore   1
Dungannon   1
Dromore           1
Galbally   0
Ardboe           0
Clonoe           0
Moortown   0

That group has only 4 county players affected.

That means the redraw protects the county-heavy clubs from having to play teams like Galbally, Ardboe, Clonoe or Moortown while badly weakened.

Pure county-player disadvantage

On the basis of players missing, the most disadvantaged team is clearly:

1. Errigal Ciaran

They lose 5 county players for 7 starred games.

That is 35 player-games lost.

Team   Own player-games lost   Opponents missing against them   Net disadvantage
Errigal Ciaran   35   20   +15
Edendork   28   21   +7
Loughmacrory   28   21   +7
Omagh           7       3       +4
Dungannon   7   3   +4
Dromore           7   3   +4
Carrickmore   7   3   +4
Trillick   21   22   -1
Donaghmore   21   22   -1
Coalisland   21   22   -1
Galbally   0   4   -4
Ardboe           0   4   -4
Clonoe           0   4   -4
Moortown   0   4   -4
Eglish           14   23    -9
Killyclogher   7   24   -17

So if the argument is "who suffers most because they are missing county players?", the answer is:

Errigal Ciaran, then Edendork and Loughmacrory.

But fixture fairness is a different issue

From a league fairness point of view, the low/no county-player teams can argue they are disadvantaged because they do not get to play the county-heavy teams while they are weakened.

For example, Galbally's starred fixtures are:

Round   Fixture   Opponent county players missing
1   Dungannon v Galbally   1
2   Clonoe v Galbally   0
3   Galbally v Omagh   1
4   Dromore v Galbally   1
5   Moortown v Galbally   0
6   Galbally v Carrickmore   1
7   Ardboe v Galbally   0

Galbally face opponents missing only 4 players total across all 7 starred games.

Then from Round 8 onwards, when games are worth 3 points, Galbally face:

Edendork
Errigal Ciaran
Loughmacrory
Trillick
Coalisland
Donaghmore
Eglish
Killyclogher

So Galbally play the county-heavy group in the 3-point non-starred games, not the 2-point starred games.

That is a strong fairness argument.

Home and away fairness

Galbally and Dromore also have the worst starred home/away split.

Team   Starred home games   Starred away games
Galbally   2                   5
Dromore           2                   5
Carrickmore   5                   2
Dungannon   5                   2

A fairer split would be 3 home / 4 away or 4 home / 3 away.

So from a venue point of view, Galbally and Dromore are the worst treated.

Final verdict
Most disadvantaged by missing county players

Errigal Ciaran — clearly.

Most disadvantaged by the structure of the redraw

Galbally and Dromore have the strongest case.

If I had to name one overall from a fixture-fairness argument

I'd say:

Dromore slightly worst overall

Because Dromore have:

Only 2 home starred games
5 away starred games
They lose 1 county player
Their starred opponents are barely weakened
They then face the county-heavy teams later in the 3-point games


Galbally have no county players, but the redraw gives them almost no benefit from starred fixtures and gives them 5 away games out of 7.

The fairest way is to spread the county-heavy teams across the full starred block, rather than putting the heavy county-player clubs mainly against each other and leaving Galbally, Ardboe, Clonoe, Moortown, Dromore, Omagh, Carrickmore and Dungannon mostly playing each other.

I would use these rules:

Rounds 1–7 remain starred.
Every team gets either 3 home / 4 away or 4 home / 3 away.
Each team should face opponents missing roughly the same total number of county players.
Avoid one group of "county-heavy" clubs and one group of "low/no-county-player" clubs.

Using your county-player numbers, this is a much fairer starred fixture list.

Proposed fairer starred fixtures
Round 1 ★
Home   Away
Killyclogher   Loughmacrory
Galbally   Trillick
Errigal Ciaran   Carrickmore
Ardboe           Clonoe
Dromore           Eglish
Coalisland   Donaghmore
Moortown   Dungannon
Omagh           Edendork
Round 2 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Moortown
Coalisland   Edendork
Omagh           Dromore
Dungannon   Ardboe
Errigal Ciaran   Donaghmore
Eglish           Galbally
Clonoe           Killyclogher
Carrickmore   Trillick
Round 3 ★
Home   Away
Omagh           Loughmacrory
Dungannon   Edendork
Moortown   Donaghmore
Eglish           Coalisland
Clonoe           Dromore
Ardboe   Carrickmore
Trillick   Errigal Ciaran
Galbally   Killyclogher
Round 4 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Edendork
Omagh   Moortown
Dungannon   Coalisland
Donaghmore   Dromore
Ardboe   Eglish
Clonoe   Errigal Ciaran
Carrickmore   Galbally
Trillick   Killyclogher
Round 5 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Ardboe
Dromore   Errigal Ciaran
Galbally   Coalisland
Moortown   Killyclogher
Edendork   Trillick
Carrickmore   Omagh
Dungannon   Clonoe
Donaghmore   Eglish
Round 6 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Carrickmore
Trillick   Clonoe
Killyclogher   Eglish
Donaghmore   Galbally
Errigal Ciaran   Dungannon
Ardboe   Omagh
Edendork   Dromore
Moortown   Coalisland
Round 7 ★
Home   Away
Coalisland   Loughmacrory
Dromore   Moortown
Edendork   Ardboe
Errigal Ciaran   Omagh
Galbally   Dungannon
Killyclogher   Donaghmore
Eglish   Trillick
Carrickmore   Clonoe
Why this is fairer

The current redraw has a huge imbalance. Some teams are playing opponents missing only 3 or 4 county players total across the seven starred games, while others are playing opponents missing 20+.

This proposed version tightens that gap massively.

Team   Opponent county players missing across R1–R7   Starred home/away
Dromore   15   3H / 4A
Omagh   15   4H / 3A
Coalisland   14   3H / 4A
Galbally   14   4H / 3A
Moortown   14   4H / 3A
Ardboe   13   4H / 3A
Carrickmore   13   4H / 3A
Edendork   13   3H / 4A
Trillick   13   3H / 4A
Clonoe   12   3H / 4A
Donaghmore   12   3H / 4A
Dungannon   12   4H / 3A
Killyclogher   12   3H / 4A
Eglish   11   3H / 4A
Errigal Ciaran   10   4H / 3A
Loughmacrory   10   4H / 3A

Under this model, the spread is only 10 to 15.

The current redraw has a spread of roughly 3 to 24, which is far too wide.

Main benefit

This removes the big problem where:

Galbally, Ardboe, Clonoe and Moortown get almost no benefit from starred fixtures.
Killyclogher and Eglish get a very favourable starred block.
The county-heavy clubs mostly cancel each other out.
Some teams get 5 away starred games.

In this version:

Nobody has worse than 3 home / 4 away.
Nobody gets a soft or brutal starred block.
The county-player effect is spread much more evenly.
The 2-point starred games are more representative of the whole division.

Are your numbers correct?
Off the top of my head Coalisland 4 county men,
Killyclogher 2 county men,
Eglish 3 county players

[square_ball]

And also to add into the mix weren't squad players released to play league games last season? So Killyclogher have 2 county players who could be released to play against a team with county players who aren't released to play.

[cjx]

With regard to recently published set of fixtures - I though since Edendork are making use of AI to write letters - id do the same to analyse the proposed fixtures.

The starred rounds are basically split into 2 groups
County-heavy starred group

These teams mostly play each other in Rounds 1–7:

Club   County players missing
Errigal Ciaran   5
Edendork   4
Loughmacrory   4
Coalisland   3
Donaghmore   3
Trillick   3
Eglish           2
Killyclogher   1

That group has 25 county players affected.

Low/no county-player starred group

These teams mostly play each other in Rounds 1–7:

Club   County players missing
Omagh           1
Carrickmore   1
Dungannon   1
Dromore           1
Galbally   0
Ardboe           0
Clonoe           0
Moortown   0

That group has only 4 county players affected.

That means the redraw protects the county-heavy clubs from having to play teams like Galbally, Ardboe, Clonoe or Moortown while badly weakened.

Pure county-player disadvantage

On the basis of players missing, the most disadvantaged team is clearly:

1. Errigal Ciaran

They lose 5 county players for 7 starred games.

That is 35 player-games lost.

Team   Own player-games lost   Opponents missing against them   Net disadvantage
Errigal Ciaran   35   20   +15
Edendork   28   21   +7
Loughmacrory   28   21   +7
Omagh           7       3       +4
Dungannon   7   3   +4
Dromore           7   3   +4
Carrickmore   7   3   +4
Trillick   21   22   -1
Donaghmore   21   22   -1
Coalisland   21   22   -1
Galbally   0   4   -4
Ardboe           0   4   -4
Clonoe           0   4   -4
Moortown   0   4   -4
Eglish           14   23    -9
Killyclogher   7   24   -17

So if the argument is "who suffers most because they are missing county players?", the answer is:

Errigal Ciaran, then Edendork and Loughmacrory.

But fixture fairness is a different issue

From a league fairness point of view, the low/no county-player teams can argue they are disadvantaged because they do not get to play the county-heavy teams while they are weakened.

For example, Galbally's starred fixtures are:

Round   Fixture   Opponent county players missing
1   Dungannon v Galbally   1
2   Clonoe v Galbally   0
3   Galbally v Omagh   1
4   Dromore v Galbally   1
5   Moortown v Galbally   0
6   Galbally v Carrickmore   1
7   Ardboe v Galbally   0

Galbally face opponents missing only 4 players total across all 7 starred games.

Then from Round 8 onwards, when games are worth 3 points, Galbally face:

Edendork
Errigal Ciaran
Loughmacrory
Trillick
Coalisland
Donaghmore
Eglish
Killyclogher

So Galbally play the county-heavy group in the 3-point non-starred games, not the 2-point starred games.

That is a strong fairness argument.

Home and away fairness

Galbally and Dromore also have the worst starred home/away split.

Team   Starred home games   Starred away games
Galbally   2                   5
Dromore           2                   5
Carrickmore   5                   2
Dungannon   5                   2

A fairer split would be 3 home / 4 away or 4 home / 3 away.

So from a venue point of view, Galbally and Dromore are the worst treated.

Final verdict
Most disadvantaged by missing county players

Errigal Ciaran — clearly.

Most disadvantaged by the structure of the redraw

Galbally and Dromore have the strongest case.

If I had to name one overall from a fixture-fairness argument

I'd say:

Dromore slightly worst overall

Because Dromore have:

Only 2 home starred games
5 away starred games
They lose 1 county player
Their starred opponents are barely weakened
They then face the county-heavy teams later in the 3-point games


Galbally have no county players, but the redraw gives them almost no benefit from starred fixtures and gives them 5 away games out of 7.

The fairest way is to spread the county-heavy teams across the full starred block, rather than putting the heavy county-player clubs mainly against each other and leaving Galbally, Ardboe, Clonoe, Moortown, Dromore, Omagh, Carrickmore and Dungannon mostly playing each other.

I would use these rules:

Rounds 1–7 remain starred.
Every team gets either 3 home / 4 away or 4 home / 3 away.
Each team should face opponents missing roughly the same total number of county players.
Avoid one group of "county-heavy" clubs and one group of "low/no-county-player" clubs.

Using your county-player numbers, this is a much fairer starred fixture list.

Proposed fairer starred fixtures
Round 1 ★
Home   Away
Killyclogher   Loughmacrory
Galbally   Trillick
Errigal Ciaran   Carrickmore
Ardboe           Clonoe
Dromore           Eglish
Coalisland   Donaghmore
Moortown   Dungannon
Omagh           Edendork
Round 2 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Moortown
Coalisland   Edendork
Omagh           Dromore
Dungannon   Ardboe
Errigal Ciaran   Donaghmore
Eglish           Galbally
Clonoe           Killyclogher
Carrickmore   Trillick
Round 3 ★
Home   Away
Omagh           Loughmacrory
Dungannon   Edendork
Moortown   Donaghmore
Eglish           Coalisland
Clonoe           Dromore
Ardboe   Carrickmore
Trillick   Errigal Ciaran
Galbally   Killyclogher
Round 4 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Edendork
Omagh   Moortown
Dungannon   Coalisland
Donaghmore   Dromore
Ardboe   Eglish
Clonoe   Errigal Ciaran
Carrickmore   Galbally
Trillick   Killyclogher
Round 5 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Ardboe
Dromore   Errigal Ciaran
Galbally   Coalisland
Moortown   Killyclogher
Edendork   Trillick
Carrickmore   Omagh
Dungannon   Clonoe
Donaghmore   Eglish
Round 6 ★
Home   Away
Loughmacrory   Carrickmore
Trillick   Clonoe
Killyclogher   Eglish
Donaghmore   Galbally
Errigal Ciaran   Dungannon
Ardboe   Omagh
Edendork   Dromore
Moortown   Coalisland
Round 7 ★
Home   Away
Coalisland   Loughmacrory
Dromore   Moortown
Edendork   Ardboe
Errigal Ciaran   Omagh
Galbally   Dungannon
Killyclogher   Donaghmore
Eglish   Trillick
Carrickmore   Clonoe
Why this is fairer

The current redraw has a huge imbalance. Some teams are playing opponents missing only 3 or 4 county players total across the seven starred games, while others are playing opponents missing 20+.

This proposed version tightens that gap massively.

Team   Opponent county players missing across R1–R7   Starred home/away
Dromore   15   3H / 4A
Omagh   15   4H / 3A
Coalisland   14   3H / 4A
Galbally   14   4H / 3A
Moortown   14   4H / 3A
Ardboe   13   4H / 3A
Carrickmore   13   4H / 3A
Edendork   13   3H / 4A
Trillick   13   3H / 4A
Clonoe   12   3H / 4A
Donaghmore   12   3H / 4A
Dungannon   12   4H / 3A
Killyclogher   12   3H / 4A
Eglish   11   3H / 4A
Errigal Ciaran   10   4H / 3A
Loughmacrory   10   4H / 3A

Under this model, the spread is only 10 to 15.

The current redraw has a spread of roughly 3 to 24, which is far too wide.

Main benefit

This removes the big problem where:

Galbally, Ardboe, Clonoe and Moortown get almost no benefit from starred fixtures.
Killyclogher and Eglish get a very favourable starred block.
The county-heavy clubs mostly cancel each other out.
Some teams get 5 away starred games.

In this version:

Nobody has worse than 3 home / 4 away.
Nobody gets a soft or brutal starred block.
The county-player effect is spread much more evenly.
The 2-point starred games are more representative of the whole division.

A lot of time and effort gone into that

Supercomputer

[PMG1]

After tonight's meeting all changed now that every game has 2 points for a win

[Onthe40]

so the Div3 league now starts next Fri night..email out last night
after putting clubs on hold for weeks due to the 20s they are going to start it 2 nights after the AI semi and with Tyrone possibly in a final

No way likes of fintona will play with 3 lads on the panel if tyrone in a final

what a mess

[Goals_Will_Come]

so the Div3 league now starts next Fri night..email out last night
after putting clubs on hold for weeks due to the 20s they are going to start it 2 nights after the AI semi and with Tyrone possibly in a final

No way likes of fintona will play with 3 lads on the panel if tyrone in a final

what a mess

It is only Fintona affected by U20s. They wont play until it is over, similar to Cookstown and Glenelly in recent years. Rest of the league gets under way.
A logical decision.

[Onthe40]

is it logical to just wait another week and start all at the same time?

[barelegs]

Clubs were asked at meeting on Tuesday night. Cookstown and Fintona were the two clubs to raise concerns about playing on without U20s. CCC were to look at option of holding their games back

[tyroneStatto]

Realistically Fintona at home should be able to beat a lower ranked team in the division even without 3 U-20's, if they were given such a fixture to start off with?

[square_ball]

Division 3 started last year and Cookstown and Glenelly had to play catch up with a few mid week fixtures thrown in. It has happened previously with Drumragh as well.

[Goals_Will_Come]

Clubs were asked at meeting on Tuesday night. Cookstown and Fintona were the two clubs to raise concerns about playing on without U20s. CCC were to look at option of holding their games back

More than Cookstown affected in Intermediate. Beragh, Aghaloo, Kildress as well.
Junior only a matter of one team playing a few midweek games to catch up.

[HalfBack7]

this has to be the worst start to the league ever. I've never seen such a farce. Thank f**k I'm no longer playing football. To my knowledge we are the only county in Ireland who haven't started their adult leagues

Division 1 - No Start date confirmed. Reserves Started.
Division 2 - No start date confirmed. Reserves Started.
Division 3 - Email the other night, with a week and a half notice before start of league. Reserves Started.
All three division strung along for weeks not know what was happening.

Division 3A - Started 17th April, 3rd round tomorrow. Fixtures sent out on the Sunday/Monday for the Friday. No clear fixture list with dates for the year ahead communicated with clubs. Are they all just going to run week after week in the order they are listed, or is there a few double rounds going to be thrown in. Who knows. (Clubs will probably find out on a Sunday/Monday email that they have a double round that week).
Reserves - F**k knows what's happening there. Don't think the CCC even know. Rumour that only 5 or 6 clubs have entered reserve teams. CCC not to bothered, haven't even had the manners to communicate with clubs.

[W.A.G. Lover]

this has to be the worst start to the league ever. I've never seen such a farce. Thank f**k I'm no longer playing football. To my knowledge we are the only county in Ireland who haven't started their adult leagues

Division 1 - No Start date confirmed. Reserves Started.
Division 2 - No start date confirmed. Reserves Started.
Division 3 - Email the other night, with a week and a half notice before start of league. Reserves Started.
All three division strung along for weeks not know what was happening.

Division 3A - Started 17th April, 3rd round tomorrow. Fixtures sent out on the Sunday/Monday for the Friday. No clear fixture list with dates for the year ahead communicated with clubs. Are they all just going to run week after week in the order they are listed, or is there a few double rounds going to be thrown in. Who knows. (Clubs will probably find out on a Sunday/Monday email that they have a double round that week).
Reserves - F**k knows what's happening there. Don't think the CCC even know. Rumour that only 5 or 6 clubs have entered reserve teams. CCC not to bothered, haven't even had the manners to communicate with clubs.

I usually wouldn't defend the county board in these situations, but sometimes they need a break when the real fault is the clubs.
Weve clubs with senior inter-county players who will only agree to starred fixtures, but then disagree with an already agreed 2point/3 point starred fixture system.
The same clubs will then not agree to changing the league structures for more divisions, creating home/away games, thus more starred fixtures and allowing the league to commence earlier.
Clubs now dictating that leagues don't commence until u-20s are over, even though they are not senior inter-county which is what starred fixtures were created for.

I suggested last year changing the league structures, similar to ccc proposals.
Either return to the old 1A, 1B, 2 & 3 with approx. 11 starred/11 un-starred games & top 16 from previous season in senior champ, next 16 intermediate champ and the remainder in Junior Champ.
Or split into 1A & 1B (Senior Champ), 2A & 2B (Intermediate Champ), 3A & 3B (Junior Champ) with approx. 7 starred/7 un-starred fixtures for everyone.
Both proposals keep the integrity of linking league and championship whilst also giving teams home/away games and allowing the leagues to proceed without intercounty players (FYI id introduce u-20s into the starred fixtures with the changes).

Until the clubs can agree on a system whereby the leagues can commence without senior and u-20 inter-county players, we will continue in this mad cycle each year.

[Quarterbackk]

98% of the footballers in Tyrone are Club footballers. Think of the player that was defeated in the championship September 25 - - Or the lad that hasnt made a county team or college team - He hasnt played football for the best part of September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May. 8 Months of the year. And then everything is crammed into 4 Months - Overload fixtures, More Injuries. Clubs paying management teams for 4 months. Its a farce. 

The clubs need to take a stand - and hurt them when it counts - the club championship. The only time the county board bothers about clubs is when they can make a fortune of money from them to help sail the County football.

All this talk about Tyrone Championship being the best.  Bullshit.  Is it the best for developing players when they only get 1 game a year in championship. - No.  Its the best for generating cash and thats what clubs need to come together on.  Give them a proper set of fixtures - a start date - a Holiday period in July and not a rushed 4 month season.

Refuse to play in championship until its sorted - Then you affect the cash generating machine.