Lance Armstrong

[ludermor]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

[maddog]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

Usually there are about 180 riders in the Tour de France or thereabouts, is it not a sweeping statement to day that they all have admitted to taking drugs ? If Usain Bolt wins the next 100metres at the Olympics and the guy in 2nd tests positive does that mean Bolt must be on the steroids ?

[muppet]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

Usually there are about 180 riders in the Tour de France or thereabouts, is it not a sweeping statement to day that they all have admitted to taking drugs ? If Usain Bolt wins the next 100metres at the Olympics and the guy in 2nd tests positive does that mean Bolt must be on the steroids ?

Maddog are you serious? Your comparison is ridiculous.

In the TDF they have team stages. Bolt runs on his own except in the relay. If Bolt's team mates cheat, he loses his relay medal. Armstrong's former team mates have admitted cheating. Some of those team mates rode with him on the team time trials in the TDF.

[ludermor]

it is a very sweepnig statement but over the last 20years there has been very few top cyclists who have not been found to have taken drugs .
Usain Bolt has always been a freak since his schoolboy days whereas Lance Armstrong was a good but unexceptional cyclist in his youth.

[maddog]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

Usually there are about 180 riders in the Tour de France or thereabouts, is it not a sweeping statement to day that they all have admitted to taking drugs ? If Usain Bolt wins the next 100metres at the Olympics and the guy in 2nd tests positive does that mean Bolt must be on the steroids ?

Maddog are you serious? Your comparison is ridiculous.

In the TDF they have team stages. Bolt runs on his own except in the relay. If Bolt's team mates cheat, he loses his relay medal. Armstrong's former team mates have admitted cheating. Some of those team mates rode with him on the team time trials in the TDF.

The team time trial when they have them in the TDF seldom has any significant bearing on the outcome.

[muppet]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

Usually there are about 180 riders in the Tour de France or thereabouts, is it not a sweeping statement to day that they all have admitted to taking drugs ? If Usain Bolt wins the next 100metres at the Olympics and the guy in 2nd tests positive does that mean Bolt must be on the steroids ?

Maddog are you serious? Your comparison is ridiculous.

In the TDF they have team stages. Bolt runs on his own except in the relay. If Bolt's team mates cheat, he loses his relay medal. Armstrong's former team mates have admitted cheating. Some of those team mates rode with him on the team time trials in the TDF.

The team time trial when they have them in the TDF seldom has any significant bearing on the outcome.

So a small bit of drug assistance for some of the team is ok then?

[maddog]

it is a very sweepnig statement but over the last 20years there has been very few top cyclists who have not been found to have taken drugs .
Usain Bolt has always been a freak since his schoolboy days whereas Lance Armstrong was a good but unexceptional cyclist in his youth.

Unexceptional ? Youngest world road race champion at the age of 21, US amateur champion the year before, he was late in taking up cycling admittedly, he was a professional triathlete at the age of 16.

[maddog]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

Usually there are about 180 riders in the Tour de France or thereabouts, is it not a sweeping statement to day that they all have admitted to taking drugs ? If Usain Bolt wins the next 100metres at the Olympics and the guy in 2nd tests positive does that mean Bolt must be on the steroids ?

Maddog are you serious? Your comparison is ridiculous.

In the TDF they have team stages. Bolt runs on his own except in the relay. If Bolt's team mates cheat, he loses his relay medal. Armstrong's former team mates have admitted cheating. Some of those team mates rode with him on the team time trials in the TDF.

The team time trial when they have them in the TDF seldom has any significant bearing on the outcome.

So a small bit of drug assistance for some of the team is ok then?

No its not, but if a guy on his team was doping what im saying is that it wouldnt have a huge bearing on Armstrongs performance.

[muppet]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

Usually there are about 180 riders in the Tour de France or thereabouts, is it not a sweeping statement to day that they all have admitted to taking drugs ? If Usain Bolt wins the next 100metres at the Olympics and the guy in 2nd tests positive does that mean Bolt must be on the steroids ?

Maddog are you serious? Your comparison is ridiculous.

In the TDF they have team stages. Bolt runs on his own except in the relay. If Bolt's team mates cheat, he loses his relay medal. Armstrong's former team mates have admitted cheating. Some of those team mates rode with him on the team time trials in the TDF.

The team time trial when they have them in the TDF seldom has any significant bearing on the outcome.

So a small bit of drug assistance for some of the team is ok then?

No its not, but if a guy on his team was doping what im saying is that it wouldnt have a huge bearing on Armstrongs performance.

It wasn't 'a guy' and it means the team should be thrown out retrospectively as they would have been if they were caught at the time. If I was Armstrong and I was clean I would hand back my medals (or whatever they get) in the spirit of fairness in sport and say my team mates let me down.

[maddog]

Is there not another issue here for Lance Armstrong. In athletics if a member of a relay team is caught cheating the entire team forfeits their medals. Even if Armstrong is clean as he claims, how can he take much credit for all his victories if so many of his team mates who supported him in these competitions were cheating and using illegal substances? Surely he was getting an unfair advantage over his main opponents.

But they were all on the juice as well............. how anyone can think Armstrong was clean yet still beat all of his competitors ( who almost to a man have admitted taking drugs) is living in a dreamworld.

Usually there are about 180 riders in the Tour de France or thereabouts, is it not a sweeping statement to day that they all have admitted to taking drugs ? If Usain Bolt wins the next 100metres at the Olympics and the guy in 2nd tests positive does that mean Bolt must be on the steroids ?

Maddog are you serious? Your comparison is ridiculous.

In the TDF they have team stages. Bolt runs on his own except in the relay. If Bolt's team mates cheat, he loses his relay medal. Armstrong's former team mates have admitted cheating. Some of those team mates rode with him on the team time trials in the TDF.

The team time trial when they have them in the TDF seldom has any significant bearing on the outcome.

So a small bit of drug assistance for some of the team is ok then?

No its not, but if a guy on his team was doping what im saying is that it wouldnt have a huge bearing on Armstrongs performance.

It wasn't 'a guy' and it means the team should be thrown out retrospectively as they would have been if they were caught at the time. If I was Armstrong and I was clean I would hand back my medals (or whatever they get) in the spirit of fairness in sport and say my team mates let me down.

Like Meath should have last year, joking aside the bearing that Amstrongs teammates had on his tour triumphs is minimal and he shouldnt be giving anything back. But as ive said before if it is proven that he cheated i will be the first to condemn him, at the minute there is still little more than heresay.

[ludermor]

it is a very sweepnig statement but over the last 20years there has been very few top cyclists who have not been found to have taken drugs .
Usain Bolt has always been a freak since his schoolboy days whereas Lance Armstrong was a good but unexceptional cyclist in his youth.

Unexceptional ? Youngest world road race champion at the age of 21, US amateur champion the year before, he was late in taking up cycling admittedly, he was a professional triathlete at the age of 16.

Yes unexceptional , he did win the world title which was a one day event and i would hardly claim to winning the US amateur champion would make him exceptional in a world sense.Before he got cancer he won just 2 stages in the Tour De France ( over 4 years) but then went on to win the thing 7 years in a row ( with 22 stage wins). It just does not add up

[Sandino]

Team Time trials may have very little effect on the overall classification of the TdeF However having a workhorse of a team mate to help drag you up a mountain or to help chase down a break away has a major impact on who wins the Tours. I'm not making a judgement call on Armstrong just comapring how other sports treat cheats, even those who are part of a team who may have done no wrong.

[maddog]

it is a very sweepnig statement but over the last 20years there has been very few top cyclists who have not been found to have taken drugs .
Usain Bolt has always been a freak since his schoolboy days whereas Lance Armstrong was a good but unexceptional cyclist in his youth.

Unexceptional ? Youngest world road race champion at the age of 21, US amateur champion the year before, he was late in taking up cycling admittedly, he was a professional triathlete at the age of 16.

Yes unexceptional , he did win the world title which was a one day event and i would hardly claim to winning the US amateur champion would make him exceptional in a world sense.Before he got cancer he won just 2 stages in the Tour De France ( over 4 years) but then went on to win the thing 7 years in a row ( with 22 stage wins). It just does not add up

I think you will find that very few people make much of a splash in their first Tour. Cycling is a sport where they tend to mature later (average age of tour winner is 27 or so ) For example Bernard Hinault started professional cycling in 1974 but didnt win the TDF until 1978, Miguel Indurain turned pro in 1984 but didnt win the first of his 5 in a row TDF until 1991 after having failed to even complete on a couple of occasions.
Also there is the fact that Armstrong dominated in an era that was weak to say the least. This is something that is seriously overlooked.

[ludermor]

Like Meath should have last year, joking aside the bearing that Amstrongs teammates had on his tour triumphs is minimal and he shouldnt be giving anything back. But as ive said before if it is proven that he cheated i will be the first to condemn him, at the minute there is still little more than heresay.

Cant agree with that, without his team mates there is no way a single rider can survive on the mountians , keeping in touch with leaders or reeling back in breaks.

[Sandino]

Spot on, ludermor! Its a team event the Tour.