Lance Armstrong

[muppet]

It was me blaming the French, they've been hounding him for years, very nasty & bitter at times. There'd be no current investigation without the French history of persuing him. Innocent until proven guilty.

Legally and properly that is correct.

However there is a lot of evidence in that article and in my opinion it does not look good. He has been unfortunate to befriend an awful lot of liars over the years.

[J70]

500 passed tests or the testimony of caught drug cheats In any other situation it would be threw out of court.

In terms of whether he will ever be proven to have been a doper, you may be correct.

However, he will always be tainted in my opinion, given the fact that he so thoroughly dominated a sport that was rife with performance enhancing drugs. Maybe that's a disservice to him, but given the history over the past decade or two of doping in numerous sports, I seriously doubt it.

The rapture is due to begin in just over six hours, so its all academic anyway!

[bennydorano]

It was me blaming the French, they've been hounding him for years, very nasty & bitter at times. There'd be no current investigation without the French history of persuing him. Innocent until proven guilty.

Legally and properly that is correct.

However there is a lot of evidence in that article and in my opinion it does not look good. He has been unfortunate to befriend an awful lot of liars over the years.

What article is this? Unless i'm missing something there's no evidence bar anecdotal stories from convicted drug cheats.

[muppet]

It was me blaming the French, they've been hounding him for years, very nasty & bitter at times. There'd be no current investigation without the French history of persuing him. Innocent until proven guilty.

Legally and properly that is correct.

However there is a lot of evidence in that article and in my opinion it does not look good. He has been unfortunate to befriend an awful lot of liars over the years.

What article is this? Unless i'm missing something there's no evidence bar anecdotal stories from convicted drug cheats.

The prosecutor would seem to disagree with you.

[maddog]

500 passed tests or the testimony of caught drug cheats In any other situation it would be threw out of court.

In terms of whether he will ever be proven to have been a doper, you may be correct.

However, he will always be tainted in my opinion, given the fact that he so thoroughly dominated a sport that was rife with performance enhancing drugs.

Therefore Miguel Indurain (5 tours in a row) having previously been unable to climb a ladder would fall under huge suspicion. Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault etc must be as well. Bennydorano is correct in his analysis of the french witch hunt. This started way back in 86 when an english speaker (lemond) had the termerity to upset the apple cart in "their race". One of the worst doping controversies surrounded Richard Virenque strangely the French were quite quiet on that one. Not saying its beyond the realms of possibility that Armstrong cheated his way through 500 or more dope tests, but until proven by more than the talk of average journeymen cyclists trying to make a name or a few pound for themselves with a controversial story i will give him the benefit of the doubt.

[bennydorano]

So, is there an article with 'evidence' then muppet?

[muppet]

500 passed tests or the testimony of caught drug cheats In any other situation it would be threw out of court.

In terms of whether he will ever be proven to have been a doper, you may be correct.

However, he will always be tainted in my opinion, given the fact that he so thoroughly dominated a sport that was rife with performance enhancing drugs.

Therefore Miguel Indurain (5 tours in a row) having previously been unable to climb a ladder would fall under huge suspicion. Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault etc must be as well. Bennydorano is correct in his analysis of the french witch hunt. This started way back in 86 when an english speaker (lemond) had the termerity to upset the apple cart in "their race". One of the worst doping controversies surrounded Richard Virenque strangely the French were quite quiet on that one. Not saying its beyond the realms of possibility that Armstrong cheated his way through 500 or more dope tests, but until proven by more than the talk of average journeymen cyclists trying to make a name or a few pound for themselves with a controversial story i will give him the benefit of the doubt.

LeMond is one of those pointing the finger. LeMond also has a tape suggesting a friend of Armstrong's who testified for him, admitted she wasn't telling the truth. You need to read the article which by the way, was in Sports Illustrated.

[J70]

500 passed tests or the testimony of caught drug cheats In any other situation it would be threw out of court.

In terms of whether he will ever be proven to have been a doper, you may be correct.

However, he will always be tainted in my opinion, given the fact that he so thoroughly dominated a sport that was rife with performance enhancing drugs.

Therefore Miguel Indurain (5 tours in a row) having previously been unable to climb a ladder would fall under huge suspicion. Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault etc must be as well. Bennydorano is correct in his analysis of the french witch hunt. This started way back in 86 when an english speaker (lemond) had the termerity to upset the apple cart in "their race". One of the worst doping controversies surrounded Richard Virenque strangely the French were quite quiet on that one. Not saying its beyond the realms of possibility that Armstrong cheated his way through 500 or more dope tests, but until proven by more than the talk of average journeymen cyclists trying to make a name or a few pound for themselves with a controversial story i will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Was doping as pervasive back then as it is now? Did a dominant performer have to beat a field were the other cyclists were mostly using performance enhancing drugs?

[Tony Baloney]

500 passed tests or the testimony of caught drug cheats In any other situation it would be threw out of court.

In terms of whether he will ever be proven to have been a doper, you may be correct.

However, he will always be tainted in my opinion, given the fact that he so thoroughly dominated a sport that was rife with performance enhancing drugs.

Therefore Miguel Indurain (5 tours in a row) having previously been unable to climb a ladder would fall under huge suspicion. Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault etc must be as well. Bennydorano is correct in his analysis of the french witch hunt. This started way back in 86 when an english speaker (lemond) had the termerity to upset the apple cart in "their race". One of the worst doping controversies surrounded Richard Virenque strangely the French were quite quiet on that one. Not saying its beyond the realms of possibility that Armstrong cheated his way through 500 or more dope tests, but until proven by more than the talk of average journeymen cyclists trying to make a name or a few pound for themselves with a controversial story i will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Was doping as pervasive back then as it is now? Did a dominant performer have to beat a field were the other cyclists were mostly using performance enhancing drugs?

Don't know if it was pervasive but it was certainly around.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

[Puckoon]

I have heard from an authority figure in golf that Tiger injects his golf balls with HGH so he can win and remain the #1 golfer in the world.

Prove me wrong 

Man you were close to being onto a massive scoop there.

[INDIANA]

500 passed tests or the testimony of caught drug cheats In any other situation it would be threw out of court.

In terms of whether he will ever be proven to have been a doper, you may be correct.

However, he will always be tainted in my opinion, given the fact that he so thoroughly dominated a sport that was rife with performance enhancing drugs.

Therefore Miguel Indurain (5 tours in a row) having previously been unable to climb a ladder would fall under huge suspicion. Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault etc must be as well. Bennydorano is correct in his analysis of the french witch hunt. This started way back in 86 when an english speaker (lemond) had the termerity to upset the apple cart in "their race". One of the worst doping controversies surrounded Richard Virenque strangely the French were quite quiet on that one. Not saying its beyond the realms of possibility that Armstrong cheated his way through 500 or more dope tests, but until proven by more than the talk of average journeymen cyclists trying to make a name or a few pound for themselves with a controversial story i will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Was doping as pervasive back then as it is now? Did a dominant performer have to beat a field were the other cyclists were mostly using performance enhancing drugs?

Of course it was. Stephen Roche by all accounts is under suspicion as well.

The fact is the Italian teams invented most of the drugs and everyone else just copied them.

[bennydorano]

Muppet, having read the SI article, i cant for the life of me see how you think that strengthens any point you (or the prosecutor) are tryin to make.  If the drug taking is generally seen as so pervasive, why hound Lance and not every other top cyclist of the past 20yrs?

[bennydorano]

500 passed tests or the testimony of caught drug cheats In any other situation it would be threw out of court.

In terms of whether he will ever be proven to have been a doper, you may be correct.

However, he will always be tainted in my opinion, given the fact that he so thoroughly dominated a sport that was rife with performance enhancing drugs.

Therefore Miguel Indurain (5 tours in a row) having previously been unable to climb a ladder would fall under huge suspicion. Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault etc must be as well. Bennydorano is correct in his analysis of the french witch hunt. This started way back in 86 when an english speaker (lemond) had the termerity to upset the apple cart in "their race". One of the worst doping controversies surrounded Richard Virenque strangely the French were quite quiet on that one. Not saying its beyond the realms of possibility that Armstrong cheated his way through 500 or more dope tests, but until proven by more than the talk of average journeymen cyclists trying to make a name or a few pound for themselves with a controversial story i will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Was doping as pervasive back then as it is now? Did a dominant performer have to beat a field were the other cyclists were mostly using performance enhancing drugs?

Of course it was. Stephen Roche by all accounts is under suspicion as well.

The fact is the Italian teams invented most of the drugs and everyone else just copied them.

Roche & Kelly were both caught. Roche when nearing retirement, but under huge suspicion over 1987 when he won all round him.

[Tyrones own]

I'm in Lance's corner anyway, surely now it's all going to be someone's word against his, how can anything be physically  proven?  The f**king French seem to  have it in for him big time, w**kers.  500 tests and clean everytime is a pretty decent record.

We have heard that line many times before. Michelle De Bruin used to use it until it was revealed she had failed tests before, but the authorities wanted cast iron proof before taking her on. Funnily enough it was Androstenedione found in a number of her samples that destroyed her defense, the same drug mentioned towards the end of that article.

The article is American and it contains the testimony of many Americans. The prosecutor is American and the courts will be American. If there is to be jail, it will be an American jail. But of course TO blame's the French. Class. 

Wrong again......Apology accepted Muppet 

[muppet]

Muppet, having read the SI article, i cant for the life of me see how you think that strengthens any point you (or the prosecutor) are tryin to make.  If the drug taking is generally seen as so pervasive, why hound Lance and not every other top cyclist of the past 20yrs?

They did and caught some who are now pointing the finger at Lance.

Delgado (beaten on the 2nd last stage by Roche in 1987) who won the Tour de France in 1988 failed a test for a drug that was banned by the Olympics people (can't be bothered looking for their name) but hadn't yet made the cycling list. This 'vindicated' him.

Both Kelly and Roche failed tests, Kelly was prior to the sporting watershed that was Ben Johnson in 1988 so it was in a different context. His 'I had the flu and accidentally took something' explanation was the norm then and was accepted even if it sounds pathetic now. Roche uses the Linford Christie 'I am retired and never tested positive in competition, therefore I am innocent' posit.