The OFFICIAL Liverpool FC thread - Salah says goodbye

[Billys Boots]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies. 

[NAG1]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

It simply requires a bigger stadium too.

[stew]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

Billy, Barca and Real are said to be is desperate financial shape altogether, the only club doing it right of the one's you mentioned are Bayern Munich.

How do you explain what Ferguson did then Billy? it took him a few years to get rolling and look at the home grown players he has produced for nothing!

By the way, in Appleton, Wisconsin, 30 mile up the road from me, Everton have sunk a million into developing an academy club there, in fact two of my players just joined that club so I would say most top premier clubs are spending big bucks to find/develop talent.

[johnneycool]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

Billy, Barca and Real are said to be is desperate financial shape altogether, the only club doing it right of the one's you mentioned are Bayern Munich.

How do you explain what Ferguson did then Billy? it took him a few years to get rolling and look at the home grown players he has produced for nothing!

By the way, in Appleton, Wisconsin, 30 mile up the road from me, Everton have sunk a million into developing an academy club there, in fact two of my players just joined that club so I would say most top premier clubs are spending big bucks to find/develop talent.

It's been a day or two since Ferguson produced a homegrown player, possibly Jonny Evans being the only one of the current batch.

[take_yer_points]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

Billy, Barca and Real are said to be is desperate financial shape altogether, the only club doing it right of the one's you mentioned are Bayern Munich.

How do you explain what Ferguson did then Billy? it took him a few years to get rolling and look at the home grown players he has produced for nothing!

By the way, in Appleton, Wisconsin, 30 mile up the road from me, Everton have sunk a million into developing an academy club there, in fact two of my players just joined that club so I would say most top premier clubs are spending big bucks to find/develop talent.

It's been a day or two since Ferguson produced a homegrown player, possibly Jonny Evans being the only one of the current batch.

Think Cleverley signed for Man U when he was 10 or 11 - I'd say you could count him as homegrown

[Lecale2]

It would be mad to consider sacking Brendan now after 6 months but could they just keep him away from the press conferences? He sounds more like David Brent every time I hear him.

[ranch]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

Billy, Barca and Real are said to be is desperate financial shape altogether, the only club doing it right of the one's you mentioned are Bayern Munich.

How do you explain what Ferguson did then Billy? it took him a few years to get rolling and look at the home grown players he has produced for nothing!

By the way, in Appleton, Wisconsin, 30 mile up the road from me, Everton have sunk a million into developing an academy club there, in fact two of my players just joined that club so I would say most top premier clubs are spending big bucks to find/develop talent.

It's been a day or two since Ferguson produced a homegrown player, possibly Jonny Evans being the only one of the current batch.

Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck would all be considered as homegrown I'd imagine. Add Giggs and Scholes into that and that's 5 out of the current squad off the top of my head. Not bad.

[Lecale2]

Giggs and Scholes is going back a bit!!

[EC Unique]

Giggs and Scholes is going back a bit!!

They are still current players...... Just.

[ranch]

Giggs and Scholes is going back a bit!!

In that case does Steven Gerrard still count as a homegrown Liverpool player? Or Jamie Carragher?
Puyol and Valdes at Barca?

[nrico2006]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

Billy, Barca and Real are said to be is desperate financial shape altogether, the only club doing it right of the one's you mentioned are Bayern Munich.

How do you explain what Ferguson did then Billy? it took him a few years to get rolling and look at the home grown players he has produced for nothing!

By the way, in Appleton, Wisconsin, 30 mile up the road from me, Everton have sunk a million into developing an academy club there, in fact two of my players just joined that club so I would say most top premier clubs are spending big bucks to find/develop talent.

It's been a day or two since Ferguson produced a homegrown player, possibly Jonny Evans being the only one of the current batch.

Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck would all be considered as homegrown I'd imagine. Add Giggs and Scholes into that and that's 5 out of the current squad off the top of my head. Not bad.

Fletcher has been at United since he was young too.  I love how the Liverpool fans have been sucked in by Rodgers and his talk of the 'project' etc.  Managers are judged on results, not on what they hope results will be in 2 or 3 years, its all about the here and now and Brendan should be seriously worried about his future considering the results this season.

[AZOffaly]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

Billy, Barca and Real are said to be is desperate financial shape altogether, the only club doing it right of the one's you mentioned are Bayern Munich.

How do you explain what Ferguson did then Billy? it took him a few years to get rolling and look at the home grown players he has produced for nothing!

By the way, in Appleton, Wisconsin, 30 mile up the road from me, Everton have sunk a million into developing an academy club there, in fact two of my players just joined that club so I would say most top premier clubs are spending big bucks to find/develop talent.

It's been a day or two since Ferguson produced a homegrown player, possibly Jonny Evans being the only one of the current batch.

Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck would all be considered as homegrown I'd imagine. Add Giggs and Scholes into that and that's 5 out of the current squad off the top of my head. Not bad.

Fletcher has been at United since he was young too.  I love how the Liverpool fans have been sucked in by Rodgers and his talk of the 'project' etc.  Managers are judged on results, not on what they hope results will be in 2 or 3 years, its all about the here and now and Brendan should be seriously worried about his future considering the results this season.

I think you've just summarised in 7 words what is wrong with soccer these days. I was not a fan of getting Brendan Rodgers in to replace Dalglish in the first place, but I have to say that I, as a long term suffering fan, am encouraged by the journey he has started out on. The style of play is a throwback to what Liverpool should be about (Rodgers didn't invent passing at Liverpool), and they are enjoyable to watch. The next step, and the most important step, is to start translating possession into goals, and goals into wins. But that doesn't happen overnight unless you spend megamoney on players like RVP.  Sturridge looks like he gives a cutting edge when paired with Suarez, and the difference was stark on Monday night when he was out.

But to suggest that Rodgers needs to be sacked because of inconsistent results in madness in my view. We need to take a longer term view of this and. while making it clear to the manager that measurable progress has to be attained, we need to be patient. 'The 'here and now' view leads to nothing except restarting with a new plan every year, and that is not sustainable'. The only quick fix is a sugar daddy with millions and millions to sink into the team, and that is not what we have at Liverpool. Whether that's a good or bad thing is moot.

[Billys Boots]

I was making the point that the decent academy structures produce good professionals every year - Utd academy has the best record in England (I think they haven't fielded a first team in over 30 years without at least one academy graduate in it), but it's not producing consistent results because of the pressure to win prizes (possibly simply because of the leniency awarded to Ferguson early in his career when there was a massive windfall from the academy - Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Butt, Nevilles etc.). 

Stew, Everton pumped money into Home Farm in Dublin for a few years - not enough instant results for them though.  I understand that Liverpool are still bankrolling St. Kevins Boys too. 

[nrico2006]

There's no short-term solution at Liverpool, irrespective of who's managing the team and the club.  They should be looking to build a long-term structure like that of Barcelona, Bayern Munich (or Real Madrid possibly).  The Barcelona project began with the arrival of Johan Cruyff in 1973 - they didn't win a Champions League until 1992; in the interim period they won La Liga only once (if I remember correctly), and very few Copa del Reys either.  At the start of the 70s, they had had a good 20 years of competition both domestically and in Europe - they decided that to combat the riches of Madrid that they needed to change the clubs operations and football ethos drastically.  It took 20 (30 really) years to achieve their goal - there's no short way of doing it; it requires a complete change of thinking.  I think that Liverpool are embarking on a similar project - they'll need to suffer a lot of smugness from Manchester in the interim.

Interestingly, RM and Barca, collectively spend €20M annually on building and running their Academies.

Billy, Barca and Real are said to be is desperate financial shape altogether, the only club doing it right of the one's you mentioned are Bayern Munich.

How do you explain what Ferguson did then Billy? it took him a few years to get rolling and look at the home grown players he has produced for nothing!

By the way, in Appleton, Wisconsin, 30 mile up the road from me, Everton have sunk a million into developing an academy club there, in fact two of my players just joined that club so I would say most top premier clubs are spending big bucks to find/develop talent.

It's been a day or two since Ferguson produced a homegrown player, possibly Jonny Evans being the only one of the current batch.

Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck would all be considered as homegrown I'd imagine. Add Giggs and Scholes into that and that's 5 out of the current squad off the top of my head. Not bad.

Fletcher has been at United since he was young too.  I love how the Liverpool fans have been sucked in by Rodgers and his talk of the 'project' etc.  Managers are judged on results, not on what they hope results will be in 2 or 3 years, its all about the here and now and Brendan should be seriously worried about his future considering the results this season.

I think you've just summarised in 7 words what is wrong with soccer these days. I was not a fan of getting Brendan Rodgers in to replace Dalglish in the first place, but I have to say that I, as a long term suffering fan, am encouraged by the journey he has started out on. The style of play is a throwback to what Liverpool should be about (Rodgers didn't invent passing at Liverpool), and they are enjoyable to watch. The next step, and the most important step, is to start translating possession into goals, and goals into wins. But that doesn't happen overnight unless you spend megamoney on players like RVP.  Sturridge looks like he gives a cutting edge when paired with Suarez, and the difference was stark on Monday night when he was out.

But to suggest that Rodgers needs to be sacked because of inconsistent results in madness in my view. We need to take a longer term view of this and. while making it clear to the manager that measurable progress has to be attained, we need to be patient. 'The 'here and now' view leads to nothing except restarting with a new plan every year, and that is not sustainable'. The only quick fix is a sugar daddy with millions and millions to sink into the team, and that is not what we have at Liverpool. Whether that's a good or bad thing is moot.

Liverpool have also spent 'megamoney' in the past couple of years on Henderson, Allen, Downing, Carrol and Suarez.

[AZOffaly]

True, there have been bad purchases, but I'm talking about a root and branch tearout of a Man City or Chelsea variety. 1 purchase of 20 million (Suarez) is not going to be adding a finishing touch, like RVP was. Downing, Henderson and Allen are way overpriced, as British players tend to be, and Carroll was just a cockup.

When you are starting from where Liverpool are starting one or two good buys is not enough. It takes a mindset change, which is in progress, and then adding the right players. That can't be done in 6 months, and it's crazy to sack a man on the basis of inconsistent results in the middle of such a process. If you believed in the man, and believed in the process last summer, you have to stick it out for at least 2 years. If there is no improvement year on year by this time next year, then yes, awkward questions would have to be asked. But even this time next year will be some way away from where we will want to be.