Plan for Mosque near Ground Zero

[ardmhachaabu]

Where is that for Hedley?

[Hedley Lamarr]

This ethnic breakdown surprised me

This is the ethnic breakdown of Muslims in America.

[ardmhachaabu]

Gotcha now, no real surprises there though to be honest 

[Puckoon]

This ethnic breakdown surprised me

I have no opinion, but in the interests of fairness; just throwing the pie chart up there is misleading at best Hedley.

From the same wikipedia article, referencing the percentage breakdown in your pie chart:

"A survey of ethnic comprehension by the Pew Forum survey in 2007 showed that 37% respondents viewed themselves of white descent (mainly of Arab and South Asian origin), 24% were Black (mainly African American), 20% Asian (mainly South Asian origin), 15% other race (includes mixed Arabs or Asians) and 4% were of Hispanic descent.[70]"

Taking the words with the pie chart removes the "surprise" if you ask me.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Have to agree with you there...didn't read all the article

[J70]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

Have you any evidence of Muslim countries jailing or beheading christians for trying to build a church?

Have you any evidence of 95% of the propaganda you're pedaling here on a daily basis, bar some socialist reporter's trumped up imagination ?

I believe Dixie has been to some majority Muslim countries - have you?

It is a fair point to ask of stew, can you give evidence to back up the point that you would be jailed or beheaded for opening a catholic church in most if not all muslim countries? That is a major exaggeration at best i'm thinking. Even if it were true it is hardly an excuse for people in the "enlightened" west to go round being equally as ignorant.

Yes, that is another of the ridiculous non-arguments being presented by the opposition to the mosque.

[J70]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

And on a street where virtually no visitors to the WTC will venture. Or at least would not have before this ridiculous display of national hysteria.

On what grounds are the opposition in Green Bay opposing the mosque there?

[Tyrones own]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

Have you any evidence of Muslim countries jailing or beheading christians for trying to build a church?

Have you any evidence of 95% of the propaganda you're pedaling here on a daily basis, bar some socialist reporter's trumped up imagination ?

I believe Dixie has been to some majority Muslim countries - have you?

It is a fair point to ask of stew, can you give evidence to back up the point that you would be jailed or beheaded for opening a catholic church in most if not all muslim countries? That is a major exaggeration at best i'm thinking. Even if it were true it is hardly an excuse for people in the "enlightened" west to go round being equally as ignorant.

Yes, that is another of the ridiculous non-arguments being presented by the opposition to the mosque.

Thought It wasn't a Mosque wasn't that an exaggerated term drummed up by the racist right 

And on a street where virtually no visitors to the WTC will venture.

Visitors... ach right so it stops with a lock of auld visitors 

[Tyrones own]

Is it any wonder the majority of American's are defensive of the Mosque when the Imam leading this insult
refuses to denounce Hamas and label them what they are..Terrorists, Yes the same terrorists that murdered
those 4 innocent Israelis today one of them a pregnant woman

Below is the "Yahoo" link;
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100831/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_talks

and a quote from it for the neutrals here in case there's any confusion of the type of scum we're dealing with
and that's being heavily defended here left and right by the bleeding hearts 

"About 3,000 people joined a rally in Gaza to celebrate the attack. Hamas military wing spokesman
Abu Obeida  was among them and told The Associated Press:
"The Qassam Brigades announces its full responsibility for the heroic operation in Hebron."

But it's just racism and bigotry on Americas part right

[J70]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

Have you any evidence of Muslim countries jailing or beheading christians for trying to build a church?

Have you any evidence of 95% of the propaganda you're pedaling here on a daily basis, bar some socialist reporter's trumped up imagination ?

I believe Dixie has been to some majority Muslim countries - have you?

It is a fair point to ask of stew, can you give evidence to back up the point that you would be jailed or beheaded for opening a catholic church in most if not all muslim countries? That is a major exaggeration at best i'm thinking. Even if it were true it is hardly an excuse for people in the "enlightened" west to go round being equally as ignorant.

Yes, that is another of the ridiculous non-arguments being presented by the opposition to the mosque.

Thought It wasn't a Mosque wasn't that an exaggerated term drummed up by the racist right 

If that's all you have to be snide about or try to score points, then do us both a favour and stop wasting our time with the fake victimhood. Its the mosque part of it that is apparently so offensive; its being called a mosque by most people and in most discussions; for the purposes of this discussion, its simple to call it the mosque. Everyone knows what we're talking about.

And on a street where virtually no visitors to the WTC will venture.

Visitors... ach right so it stops with a lock of auld visitors 

What stops?

I'm referring to the fact that this is now a national controversy. If it hadn't been drummed up into an issue by the right, most people would not even know it was there (assuming its ever built). The reason being that it is on a side street north of the WTC, off the busiest part of the downtown-WTC area. You wouldn't know that from the general media coverage, as Stew noted in the original post to which I was replying. Is that difficult to comprehend?

[J70]

Is it any wonder the majority of American's are defensive of the Mosque when the Imam leading this insult
refuses to denounce Hamas and label them what they are..Terrorists, Yes the same terrorists that murdered
those 4 innocent Israelis today one of them a pregnant woman

Below is the "Yahoo" link;
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100831/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_talks

and a quote from it for the neutrals here in case there's any confusion of the type of scum we're dealing with
and that's being heavily defended here left and right by the bleeding hearts 

"About 3,000 people joined a rally in Gaza to celebrate the attack. Hamas military wing spokesman
Abu Obeida  was among them and told The Associated Press:
"The Qassam Brigades announces its full responsibility for the heroic operation in Hebron."

But it's just racism and bigotry on Americas part right

If the iman involved in this does in fact turn out to be a supporter of Hamas, then that is a legitimate issue. But that hasn't been a factor in this discussion to date, now has it? So far its been all about monuments to 9/11 and Nazis and, at least to the more sane among the opposition, sensitivity.

And just so we're clear and you don't get to twist anything to suit your persecution agenda, I have nowhere defended anyone who would support terrorism. I have condemned those who oppose this mosque for ridiculous reasons and asked for legitimate reasons why it should be opposed. If there are legitimate reasons to oppose it i.e. the muslims actually involved in the mosque do turn out to be supporters of terrorism, then that is a different situation. If there are links between them and terrorism, then please, show us them. I'll have no problem denouncing them and withdrawing my support if it is warranted.

[Tyrones own]

If the iman involved in this does in fact turn out to be a supporter of Hamas, then that is a legitimate issue. But that hasn't been a factor in this discussion to date, now has it?

Maybe obviously not over at MSNBC but it's a huge deal other places...of course you'd have to remove your head from you rectum to notice, now wouldn't you?

I have condemned those who oppose this mosque for ridiculous reasons and asked for legitimate reasons why it should be opposed

I have already given legitimate reasons for the opposition to it!..should I apologize for the fact that you disagree?
The fact that Hamas are in full support of it should be enough to any logical thinking person

And just so we're clear and you don't get to twist anything to suit your persecution agenda,

Neither do you and neither will you !

the muslims actually involved in the mosque do turn out to be supporters of terrorism,

It would be a bit too late then wouldn't it...I wonder would the wonderful bastion for left thinking and pandering
that is France do things a little differently if they had it over again with regards to their and other regions in Europe
recent found problems with the peaceful religion  Wake up FFS!
* Striking also that you have no remarks, good, bad or indifferent to Hamas' celebration of a heroic operation 
but yet it's me that's blinkered and biased

[PadraicHenryPearse]

for someone who claims they dislike when people bring Israel into ever thread, you sure have a weird way of showing it.....apart from when it suits your argument.

I am not a Hamas supporter, But i do suppport the rights of the Palestinian people. These rights denied by the Israelis. When Israel says it is only defending itslef,  the whole world swallows it, it sickens me. What they are defending are illegal settlement, build on land grabs of Palestinian land. This is not a defensive action but aggression. Where is the right of the Palestinians to defend themselves. As i said i am not a Hamas support and i certain do not support their military actions but they have a political wing and they have moderates. The world missed a massive opportunity to engage with these moderates after Hamas won the elections. If there was not this macho "We don't talk to terrorist" shite, then maybe alot of the problems could be solved. What if everyone refused to talk to Sinn Fein or the IRA? The way moderates win out is if the popualtion can be given a better life, then those that turn to violance have no support network and become the sidelined.

I am sure if the Imam was asked about this incident he wouldn't agree with it.

Back to the topic, So now from your posts - it is the Imams opinions of Hamas and the insensitive nature of building a "mosque" so close to ground zero that seem to be your main objections (from previous posts) Point 1 - A. Sharon was in the whitehouse, he was once wanted by the americans as a terrorist but then welcomed and championed by the US, so apparently not all terrorists are bad and with time can actuallly become good. Maybe the Imam is just way ahead of the pack...... point 2 - Collective guilt being placed on one religion for the actions of a few is a dangerous precedent and how people cannot see this is frightening.

[Tyrones own]

for someone who claims they dislike when people bring Israel into ever thread, you sure have a weird way of showing it.....each when it suits your argument.

I am not a Hamas supporter, But i do suppport the rights of the Palestinian people. These rights denied by the Israelis. When Israel says it is only defending itslef,  the whole world swallows it, it sickens me. What they are defending are illegal settlement build on land grabs of Palestinian land. This is not a defensive action but agression. Where is the right of the Palestinians to defend themselves. As i said i am not a Hamas support and i certain do not support their military actions but they have a political wing and they have moderates. The world missed a massive opportunity to engage with these moderates after Hamas won the elections. If there was not this macho "We don't talk to terrorist" shite, then maybe alot of the problems could be solved. What if everyone refused to talk to Sinn Fein or the IRA? The way moderates win out is if the popualtion can be given a better life, then those that turn to violance have no support network and become the sidelined.

I am sure if the Imam was asked about this incident he wouldn't agree with it.

Back to the topic, So now from your posts - it is the Imams opinions of Hamas and the insensitive nature of building a "mosque" so close to ground zero that seem to be your main objects (from previous posts) Point 1 - A. Sharon was in the whitehouse, he was once wanted by the americans as a terrorist but then welcomed and championed by the US, so apparently not all terrorists are bad and with time can actuallly become good. Maybe the Imam is just way ahead of the pack...... point 2 - Collective guilt being placed on one religion for the actions of a few is a dangerous precedent and how people cannot see this is frightening.

I'll get to the rest when I have time as I'm heading out here for a bit, but quickly to this last part in bold; it's too bad the Catholic church weren't offered such a wide birth a while back during the scandal especially from the enlightened ones amongst here on the board *shakes head*

[J70]

If the iman involved in this does in fact turn out to be a supporter of Hamas, then that is a legitimate issue. But that hasn't been a factor in this discussion to date, now has it?

Maybe obviously not over at MSNBC but it's a huge deal other places...of course you'd have to remove your head from you rectum to notice, now wouldn't you?

For someone who is forever whinging about people projecting their dislike of Fox News onto him, you really don't mind doing likewise yourself, now do you. I watch MSNBC about as often as I watch Fox, which is just about never.

If Hamas had been such a serious issue in this discussion, you've certainly been very slow to play that card. Is there or has there been any serious evidence that this iman supports them? If there is now, was there before? Please post it if so.

I have condemned those who oppose this mosque for ridiculous reasons and asked for legitimate reasons why it should be opposed

I have already given legitimate reasons for the opposition to it!..should I apologize for the fact that you disagree?
The fact that Hamas are in full support of it should be enough to any logical thinking person

Yes, that's great logic, that is. By that rationale, the fact that every white racist and christian bigot in America is against it should be enough for you. And you can apply such stupid logic to just about anything, anywhere.

the muslims actually involved in the mosque do turn out to be supporters of terrorism,

It would be a bit too late then wouldn't it...I wonder would the wonderful bastion for left thinking and pandering
that is France do things a little differently if they had it over again with regards to their and other regions in Europe
recent found problems with the peaceful religion  Wake up FFS!

So get the retaliation in first, is that it? Because they're muslim, they automatically should be treated with contempt and suspicion? They're automatically terrorist sympathizers?

* Striking also that you have no remarks, good, bad or indifferent to Hamas' celebration of a heroic operation 
but yet it's me that's blinkered and biased

Only striking to you, presumably so you can score cheap points or project your contemptuous and cartoonish view of someone like me. As I said on the Saudi thread, some things are so self-evident that they require no comment or discussion. But just in case... Hamas are murderous scum. Good enough for you?