Plan for Mosque near Ground Zero

[Tyrones own]

lads and lasses (esp Mrsredandblack), this is a discussion forum. So DISCUSS

TO's views are as valid as anyone else's. I disagree with him more often than not but he reasons and shows his facts, and I for one respect that. And he's not the one starting the he said she said...

Mrs red and whack and her clampett hubby are the same clowns that protested the norn iron team when they played in Chicago, they are screaming liberals that suddenly got conservative after an Irish team showed up to train at a GAA club in the city at, by the way, the invitation of the local GAA club.

TO might be a conservative but ffs, some eejits on here do nothing but lazily throw fox out there, Oreilly out there and Hannity etc out there as if that is the only place the man gets his opinions from.

Screaming liberals and ultra right conservatives make me sick to my stomach so I doubt very much those two down hewers would make my Christmas card list.

Ach Aye but sure their heads are so far up their own holes they're unable to catch the irony that even though I'll go out
of my way in not posting a Fox news link to support something or another, I'm lambasted for it But ironically, totally fine
for them to post links and articles ad nauseam from the most far far left commentators, journalists, politicians and haters of every kind willing to
share a negative slant on the US No one notices..really! 
But then again now that I think about it...I very rarely do post links to support my views, don't need to, unlike some

[Tyrones own]

I didn't accuse you of lying.  I said no-one takes a single word you say as gospel.  There is quite a difference

Really  What would that be?

Answer the question for once !

[ardmhachaabu]

What is you need me to patronise you about TO?  I have already stated my opinion, it's not my fault if you can't comprehend it 

[Tyrones own]

What is you need me to patronise you about TO?  I have already stated my opinion, it's not my fault if you can't comprehend it 

What's to comprehend if any "single word" as you put it is not gospel but it's also not a lie then what is it?
I'm pretty sure there's more than me here would like to hear you explain that one 

[ardmhachaabu]

In simple English then TO, that even you can surely understand, people who read your so-called opinion on here by and large disregard every word you say because you come across as being pro a certain political viewpoint and as a result of that you seek to put anyone down who disagrees with you.  All this at the same time as you coming across as being 100% certain that you are the only person on the board who could have a legitimate political viewpoint

Don't ask again.

[J70]

I guess its safe to say that you don't think the mosque should be opposed on 9/11 or terrorism grounds then. If not, then why?

No, I am opposed to it but the reason being is that if the people behind the locating and building of this thing were actually serious about
building bridges and mending relations this sure as hell was not the way to go about it.
It was a divisive, contentious decision, completely unnecessary in my view and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with
and goes well beyond the first Amendment rights IMHO.

Well at least that is a point that can be argued somewhat sensibly, unlike most of the other rubbish coming from the opposition or stuff about sympathy agendas etc. However, that logic still imposes a collective responsibility for 9/11 on the shoulders of all muslims. That they should "show sensitivity" by moving the location is to say that their very presence a short distance from Ground Zero is offensive, purely because they happen to worship the same god and not because of anything they've done.  Once again, how is that different to opposing the location of a catholic church close to a school? Both rationales assign collective guilt, with much less justification in this case. The ones with the problem and who you are demanding should be appeased are those who insist on tarring all muslims with the one brush. That is the only way their argument makes sense, even if their argument is merely about sensitivity and building bridges. "We've got a bunch of people here who don't like you, even if you've done nothing to them, so you'd better make nice and tread very carefully so you don't make their unjustified dislike for you even worse!"

[Tyrones own]

people who read your so-called opinion on here by and large disregard every word you say because you come across as being pro a certain political viewpoint

Fcuk such a typical elitist attitude to have on a discussion board... so just because I don't toe the progressive liberal line here I should be disregarded 
then being the hypocrite that ye are you come out with this on the very next line;

All this at the same time as you coming across as being 100% certain that you are the only person on the board who could have a legitimate political viewpoint

You sir, are a complete clown

[Hedley Lamarr]

By GWYNNE DYER | ARAB NEWS
Muslims, Ground Zero and US midterm polls
THE great journalist H.L. Mencken once said that nobody ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the American public — but I may be about to prove him wrong.

Three or four months ago, I started betting various friends that the Democrats would lose control of both houses of the US Congress in the midterm elections this November. I was way ahead of the opinion curve, so I got lots of takers. But now, when the general opinion has shifted in that direction, I begin to think I was wrong. And it all has to do with the "Ground Zero mosque."

If you have been paying attention and are fully sentient, you will know that it is not actually a mosque. If the sponsors can raise the money (which remains to be seen), it would contain a prayer room, but also a restaurant, a 500-seat theater, basketball courts and a swimming pool that would be open to all. It would not have a minaret, but there would be a memorial to the 3,000 people (including 300 Muslims) who died in the 9/11 attacks.

And it is not, of course, at Ground Zero. It is two blocks up and around the corner, invisible from where the World Trade Center once stood. Not that there's any reason for it to hide around the corner: There's nothing wrong with an Islamic cultural center. It should also be pointed out that the Pussy Cat Lounge, an upmarket strip club, is closer to the site and not invisible at all.

So should we ask whether those on the right wing of the Republican Party who started this business about a mosque at Ground Zero intended to exploit the latent Islamophobia of the American public? You might as well ask if the pope is a Catholic. This is a "wedge issue," deliberately concocted to drive the dimmer elements of the Republican Party into supporting the right-wing's other positions as well.

I hear you protesting that the Republican Party doesn't have a left-wing any more, so how can it have a right-wing? But everything is relative in politics, and the real contest this autumn is not being held in November. Most congressional districts have been gerrymandered to the point where they are safe seats for one party or the other, so the real contest is in the primary (which chooses the party's candidate) in any given district.

Senate seats cannot be gerrymandered in the same way, but there are also bitter primary struggles between "left" and "right" Republicans in many of them. Republican Sen. John McCain, the former presidential candidate, survived the Arizona primary on Aug. 24 only by shifting sharply right on many issues, including climate change and immigration. Other moderate Republican senators are doing the same, but they may not be so lucky.

The "Ground Zero mosque" campaign was begun by players like Fox News and Mark Williams, organizer of the Tea Party Express. But the campaign works for the hard right because a large proportion of the US population is anti-Muslim.

Exactly how large nobody knows, but we may safely assume that the 24 percent of Americans who believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim are not thinking: "Good. When Americans elected a black, Muslim president, we showed how tolerant the country is." They are thinking: "Oh my God, there's a black Muslim terrorist in the White House. America is doomed."

Let us assume, therefore, that the proportion of Americans who fear and hate Muslims (in most cases without ever having met one) is somewhere between that 24 percent and the 61 percent, according to a recent Time Magazine poll, who oppose the "Ground Zero mosque."

How excited should we get about this? Not very. You would probably get a similar figure if you asked people in almost any Muslim country whether they see contemporary Americans as a new generation of "crusaders". They aren't, any more than Muslims are terrorists, but the Muslim Middle East has a rather one-sided view of the Crusades.

After five centuries when the Middle East and North Africa had been mostly Christian, Islam conquered the whole region in the 7th and 8th centuries. The Crusades, three centuries later, were a counter-attack aimed at recovering some of the lost territory for Christendom, neither more nor less reprehensible than the original Islamic conquest. It's just history, and nobody has clean hands. But I digress.

Why am I going to lose my bets on the outcome of the midterm elections? Because the primaries attract at most ten percent of the potential voters, and they tend to be the ideologically committed ones. Hard-right candidates can win that audience over — but when 50 or 60 percent of American voters come out in the real election, the extremists tend to lose in the critical districts where the outcome might go either way.

The Democrats will keep their Senate majority. They might even keep the House.

[stew]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

[give her dixie]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

Have you any evidence of Muslim countries jailing or beheading christians for trying to build a church?

[upmonaghansayswe]

Came across this.. Gets a bit wishy washey at the end but the first 10 min was entertaining..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yPRl8vYXBw&feature=topvideos

[Tyrones own]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

Have you any evidence of Muslim countries jailing or beheading christians for trying to build a church?

Have you any evidence of 95% of the propaganda you're pedaling here on a daily basis, bar some socialist reporter's trumped up imagination ?

[thebigfella]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

Have you any evidence of Muslim countries jailing or beheading christians for trying to build a church?

Have you any evidence of 95% of the propaganda you're pedaling here on a daily basis, bar some socialist reporter's trumped up imagination ?

[mylestheslasher]

In Green Bay they are opposing a Mosque that the local Muslims want to build, now that fcuker would be over two thousand miles from ground zero yet these clampetts dont want Muslims to have a place or worship at all and they are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are trampling all over their own constitution which is hypocritical to say the least.

I have just been in Noo York proper for the first time and this Mosque is not at ground zero at all, rather a few blocks away.

I will say this, If Christians tried to build a Chuch in most if not all Muslim Countries they would be at best jailed and at wrst beheaded but many on here focus on the Americans and all of their failings and God forbid anyone say a bad word about what is going on in the Muslim world.

Have you any evidence of Muslim countries jailing or beheading christians for trying to build a church?

Have you any evidence of 95% of the propaganda you're pedaling here on a daily basis, bar some socialist reporter's trumped up imagination ?

I believe Dixie has been to some majority Muslim countries - have you?

It is a fair point to ask of stew, can you give evidence to back up the point that you would be jailed or beheaded for opening a catholic church in most if not all muslim countries? That is a major exaggeration at best i'm thinking. Even if it were true it is hardly an excuse for people in the "enlightened" west to go round being equally as ignorant.

[Hedley Lamarr]

This ethnic breakdown surprised me