Cluiche ceannais na sraithe: Corcaigh v Maigh Eo

[Terry Tate]

Very disappointed after yesterdays performance. I was very annoyed at some of the players particularly Liam O'Malley, Trevor Howley, Tom Parsons and Trevor Mortimer. However after thinking about it today it's hard on the players to. I blame the management team for this particular collapse.

I would love to ask JOM why Tom Parsons was allowed to continue for so long with his head down not in the right frame of mind at all. Getting frustrated and standing off instead of getting stuck in.

Trevor Howley got the run around two weeks ago from O'Connor and the same happened yesterday. He doesn't play centre back for knockmore yet JOM persists with him here even though it's clear he is not able for it. He is a fine player but not in this position by the looks of things.

It's the Same with Liam O'Malley. JOM may not have many options from the bench but there is never a plan B when it comes to Liam. I think back to the Derry match a couple of years ago when he was left to mark Bradley for the entire game even though he was being destroyed. I don't know if there is a place for him on the team.

In fairness to JOM this time he did remove Trevor Mortimer but what I would like to know is why he is allowed to do the same things over and over again. The manager  should be able to sort this out.

Finally, the game was over after 10 mins of the second half. What was the point in bringing 3 lads in with a few mins to go. It drives me mad to see that.

[rocco]

The game was over after 10 mins of first half not 10 mins of second half. It was one of the worst games i have ever sat through . I was clear from an early stage that mayo had major problems in key positions.

[magickingdom]

However, the league is over, for better or worse, and Cork won today on merit. Without doubt, they are short odds favourites to win the AI; it's theirs for the taking and if they happen to fall by the wayside, it will be their own fault.

how are cork short odds favourite to win the ai? they beat an absent (yet again) mayo and that makes them good? ill bet you anything this kerry will beat them when it counts in 2010. dont take my word, most cork supporters will tell you that

[Farrandeelin]

The game was over after 10 mins of first half not 10 mins of second half. It was one of the worst games i have ever sat through . I was clear from an early stage that mayo had major problems in key positions.

It was surely. Why didn't O'Mahony do something about it then? Howley was getting the runaround as everyone acknowledges by O'Connor. It really is so frustrating sitting watching them getting beaten every day in Croke Park. People might say I'm a hurler on the ditch with my criticism, but I blame O'Mahony no1 for not moving players around. It might have worked.

The only players who can say they've done well were Keith Higgins and Enda Varley because they were not involved.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Logan go home to the Hoganstand website.

[ross4life]

To be fair too the Mayo Lads it's better to lose now & get things sorted out for the Championship than to have won going into the championship with false hopes

[magickingdom]

anyone know what the attendance was today? there looked to be a good crowd there for the armagh/down but they all left for the cork/mayo game. the gaa have a mess on their hands if croke park is going to be empty for the nfl finals. looks awful. i was sad to see micko downplaying the league on the late late, its long overdue that the gaa took a leaf out of the irfus book and promoted the thing. had dublin made the final today there would have been some atmosphere there but thats not enough.

I don't get the IRFU reference.
What is it that they promote?

jinxy. if the irfu can get 20k+ into thomand pk for magners league games against the likes of  ospreys i think theres something to learn from them. 15 guys jumping on top of an oval shaped ball does nothing for me but it obviously works for a lot of people.

anyone got todays attendance?

If you leave aside the nature of the individual games, the Magners League is a success because it's a better product as a league. Each team plays twenty games - I think; I'm not from any of the three provinces myself - which makes it a proper league as there are enough games for the cream to rise to the top.

Seven games aren't really a league. Two bad results can make you lose all interest, while still leaving you safe from relegation. Kerry had a great league, for instance, even though they didn't contest the final. The League as it's currently set up isn't set up to encourage the best teams to get to the final, and the divisions are too small anyway. Armagh are Division 2 Champions but they would certainly beat Mayo today, from what I saw of both games.

If the GAA are going to promote the league they'll have to restructure it completely. And I don't think there's widespread support for that. We're annoyed this evening but by Wednesday no-one will give a toss about the League. And that's why this problem keeps cropping up.

connacht v munster 2 weeks ago in galway had 3,500 at it - not even a sell out (5k). if that game was 60 miles down the road there would be 20k+ in thomand. why? its the thomand athmosphere that helps sell it, why else would these fans not drive up the road? same with connacht v leinster last week 4,500 at it, not even a sell out. magners league games are played in front of paltry crowds in scotland. the gaa had 27k yesterday unfortunately they mainly left before the big event!

[MadMayo]

Where was Gardiner for this game, is he injured?? his runs through midfield were sorely missed..... A few bad calls from the bench too yesterday...Parsons should have been taken off after 10 mins, he had a stinker. C.Mort should have been left on as should ronaldson, marking was a disaster, we need Higgins back, cork lads were free to score at leisure.
Well done Cork. Time to prepare for the championship.

[moysider]

I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently  at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.

[mannix]

Moysider, thats a great post. The only thing is that andy moran and co have muscle on them according to the press photos and should not be pushed around too easily.The leader thing is a big problem, not many have a presence like d brady or heaney in their prime.And a captain has to be able to lead by example, i played on teams with a real leader and it made the game easier because you did not want to let him down if he was busting his ass ,  lesser leaders would not inspire you to put your socks on.

[Lar Naparka]

However, the league is over, for better or worse, and Cork won today on merit. Without doubt, they are short odds favourites to win the AI; it's theirs for the taking and if they happen to fall by the wayside, it will be their own fault.

how are cork short odds favourite to win the ai? they beat an absent (yet again) mayo and that makes them good? ill bet you anything this kerry will beat them when it counts in 2010. dont take my word, most cork supporters will tell you that

The short answer I suppose is that the bookies make them so!
I have just googled "all ireland betting odds" and Cork leads the way in the first four I checked, with Kerry and then Tyrone coming in as second and third favourites respectively.
I think that's the way most sports journalists also see it and it has been that way long before the game against Mayo yesterday. Personally, I'd be reluctant to back them against Kerry if they happen to meet in the AI this year but that's because they have failed to beat them in the final twice in recent years. Each time they were heavily backed going into the game and they came up short in both. Kerry were damn lucky to get to the final at all last year as both Longford and Sligo could have beaten them but, once again, they outfoxed Cork. Cork were definitely heavy favourites for that one.
Right now, the langers are the form team and Kerry have lost several key players from the side of last year so I've no problem with the odds being quoted. 

[Logan]

Logan go home to the Hoganstand website.

A contribution worthy of said forum and a handle worthy of such attitude.

[Logan]

I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently  at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.

Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.

[INDIANA]

I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently  at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.

Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.

I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.

Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.

[nrico2006]

I agree with Muppet above in that people mood swing a bit. I honestly don t think yesterday puts us up or down much anyway. Nothing happened yesterday that surprised me in any way. We are where we are. We have enough raw talent to do well in largely unstructured games but we are hopeless when it comes to a serious test against counties we haven't grown up with. Sad to say I agree with Logan on this one. Since Johnno s return we have been bitchslapped by Derry and Meath when it counted. Tyrone playing below par let us punch ourselves out and bullied us at the end. What has changed? Nothing imo.
Not all is lost for the Sligo match. In fact yesterday probably worst thing that could happen from a Sligo perspective. Mayo will I expect be very thick in Sligo as a result of yesterday. If yesterday had gone wellish then I shudder to think what show would turn up in June. If we get over that the next game will be 50/50 as usual. We could make the 1/4 finals and with a favorable draw the last 4.
The only thing is though I dont believe we have the knowhow to solve our problems. While we have a manager we dont have a top coach. Somebody pointed out that there is more to defending than just getting bodies back. Yesterday at one stage there were 6 Mayo lads v 3 Cork forwards but Cork still managed to score without a glove being left on anybody. People were praising Johnno for nursing A O Sé into senior team. My hole, its sink or swim stuff. No evidence of guidance or coaching. He s still trying to bullock past defenders like he did a minor. No laying off. Nothing. Parsons has not improved one iota under him. Trevor has gone back in what should be his prime. Maybe the captaincy doesn't suit him. The best game Trevor played since o4 was in Celtic Park in the Derry debacle - as a half back. Of course the display was lost in the carnage but maybe that's the place for him. I expect to hear he s being played at 6 in challenge matches next few weeks. Johnno made a no.6 out of Tomas Mannion in 01 when Galway was in crisis. I always reckoned he was desperate and got lucky. Now he has the chance to prove it wasn't luck. I ve seen both Liam O Malley and Trevor play excellently  at 6 for their clubs. At least that's a start. I m not going to pick a team here because its deckchairs on the Titanic as long as the management cover up their deficiencies by hiring psychologists. They d be better off sending for a real leader like Aidan Higgins. Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working. We need coaching a ruthless approach to selection and how we play. Johnno has only shown ruthlessness when it came to dropping players before their time, or because they were a bit difficult. In his first stint in Mayo he inherited a team full of leaders like Forde, Flanagan, TJ, Willie Joe , Jimmy Burke et al. But after they got to an AI final he couldn't keep it lit. Ditto in Leitrim with the Quinns, Darcy and Flanagan. This team he has spent 4 years building seem to have had all their initiative talked out of them but neither have they been given any real shape, cohesion or gameplan.
Anybody else notice the huge size difference between the two teams. Maybe stronger lads like Kilcullen and Campbell were too quickly jettisoned. We re deficient in power in too many lines.
Only Vaughan and Cafferkey threaten the 6' mark in the backs.

Actually you may have put your finger on a few very good points - especially wrt coaching & psychology.
Does actually bringing in a psychologist actually highlight a problem and have the opposite effect of the original intention?
Does it just highlight the elephant in the room more?
I am surprised at Jonno to be honest as years ago I considered him a far more 'ruthless kinda ba$tard' to be honest (I mean that in a positive sense). Has his day past?
The point on coaching is a very good one also - something that many teams overlook, but some of the better ones I know (without going into specifics) concentrate more on that than the physical or would have one believe. But I don't know enough about the internal workings of the Mayo backroom set up to criticize that.
I would say that wrt to size - every team would probably look small along side Cork, so that might an unfair comparison.
On the whole, I agree though, all is not lost for Sligo by a long shot, but victory in an NFL final would have been a welcome declaration of intent and ability.

I don't believe its pschology Logan in Mayo's case. Its down to coaching. Mayo's forwards don't tackle . 80% of their problems on Sunday and I was at the game came from forwards inviting the Cork backs to attack them. Just made it so easy for them. Also there is little point in filtering back bodies to mark space. Dublin did the same in Pairc Ui Rinn and were demolished- did the same against Galway and lost which cost them a place in the National Final. Who are the worker bees on the mayo team?
The ball into AOS has to go high because he's one paced but Mayo kept kicking it into the corners for him. Pointless. I thought Mayo struggled at midfield. To have any chance against Cork you have to stop them at source- ie midfield. Easier said then done but Cork mopped up most of the breaks on Sunday losing leaving their full back line exposed.
I thought all of the Mayo FB line played well. Its no fun in the FB line when the ball is constantly raining in the whole time.

Mayo will make the last 8 and could make the last 4. But thats as far as they'll go this year. Cork and Kerry are too far ahead of everybody. Tyrone mounting any sort of a challenge is conditional on all of Tyrone's forward players being back and restructuring the defence with new options. New options I don't think they have. But we'll see.

I can understand people putting Cork ahead of the pack at this stage based on the League, but to say Kerry are 'too far ahead' of everybody else is far-fetched.