Cluiche ceannais na sraithe: Corcaigh v Maigh Eo

[AbbeySider]

I was as disappointed and disgusted leaving Croke Park as I have been after leaving it any time Mayo have lost in the past. There are serious question marks over a lot of players but after reflecting on it, I dont think we are as far away from getting it right than we showed yesterday.

Clarke -
Was only average between the sticks yesterday. Granted he was off his line on occasions but why was he aiming for the wings and ending up kicking at least 4 balls out over the sideline? Did he not have faith in the mid-field, especially when McGarity seemed to improve things when he came on?

Barrett, G Cafferkey, L O'Malley
The full backline were wiped yesterday. Id did foresee it but I was hoping I would be wrong. Barrett did Ok but im not sure if he is going to cut it. O Malley was miles off his man and is turned too easily, he is not up to it. Ball in hand he is very limited and wasnt able to break a tackle and drive out with possession. Cafferkey hadnt his best day at the office and he wasnt commanding as a fullback.

D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin
I was happiest with McLoughlin who had a great game. He was the only Mayo player that took things on and seemed up for it. I have to pay tribute to Vaughan too who was good defencivly and played, well but Howley was destroyed. I knew he was an accident waiting to happen. He doent seem to have any clue what to do at CB and doent have the physique for it. No way can he start at CB again IMO.

Parsons, S O'Shea -
Parsons would break your heart. For a guy with his ability he hasnt shone at senior level yet and never seems to be pushing it out. S O Shea was very good and worked hard, tackling and turning over possession. He was powerful coming forward and I thought he played well. I know he got caught up in possession under the Cusack stand but there was no movement from the forwards at the time so im not blaming him for that.

A Moran, A Dillon, T Mortimer
Sadly Moran and Dillon went missing for long periods but I saw Dillon hobbling around in the second half so he didnt seem fully fit. Moran was in and out it too and was playing deep a lot of the time defending. In a word, Trevor was diabolical, I dont want to even think about or comment any further except to say that his basic skill level is not high enough.

C Mortimer (0-6, three frees), A O'Shea, M Ronaldson.
Conor did well and I was pleased with him although he did balloon one in the air (he should t have got the ball as Trev should have taken the shot) and a fist pass or two went astray but I cant fault him after that. Aidan O Shea did fine when he got the ball but why were they kicking into the corners and not letting it in high? Ronaldson didnt impress me yesterday and is a bit small to cut it.


McGarrity
Seemed to improve midfield when he came on so I have no complaints.

Kilcoyne
Didnt get long enough to make an impression but should have been on for Trev long before he came in.

Freeman
Harte
B Moran
The game was over and I guess JOM was just giving the lads a run out in Croke Park.



My team for Sligo based on the league

                  Clarke
K Higgins, Ger Cafferkey, Trevor Howley
D Vaughan, S O Shea, K McLoughlin
McGarity, Parsons
Andy Moran, Alan Dillon, Aidan Kilcoyne
C Mortimer, A O'Shea, Enda Varley


The above defence is much more solid. Howley has better defending qualities and we need Keith Higgins in the other corner. Cafferkey is just about holding on because there are days I would use Conroy against a bigger full forward. Having said that I would use Cafferkey in the corner before Howley if Conroy was fullback.
The wing backs pick themselves but I would put Seamus O Shea at CB as he has all the qualities. He is very good at stopping and tackling and would hit anything that came down the middle. I think he is instinctively defensive and he presence would hold that space.
Parsons would want a running kick in the arse on his way out the dressing room to get him going. McGarity proved in the half he was on that he is our best option for high fielding.
That half forward line and serious penetration. Andy and Killer love running at defences and all three are good at foraging and winning breaks. We know Dillons reading and play-making ability is proven in the past so I would leave him at CF.
The Mort showed at the weekend that he is still one of our best scorers and Endy Varley proved in the league that he is worth his place. I would actually change it up and switch Dillon and Aidan O Shea for a few minutes to mix up the attack. All in all I think thats the best we can do with the current panel.

I think we could be in serious trouble against Sligo in six week times.
Its all set up for a perfect ambush.

[Logan]

Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.

No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!

Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.

League has more to do with Logan then you're saying. its no coincidence the leinster championship is the poorest out there because it has only 1 Div 1 team.

League means nothing come championship - especially in Ulster above all places.
Standard of football isn't great in Leinster - but do you think McGeeney is worried about a League or even Gilroy?
You can win all the leagues you want but it doesn't matter.

The year Armagh won the AI they were in Div 2
Kerry never bothered with the league for decades
Derry won the League and then lost to Fermangh in the first round!
Runners up the next and bombed in the championship.
I could go on ...

[GalwayBayBoy]

I think we could be in serious trouble against Sligo in six week times.
Its all set up for a perfect ambush.

Should be good value in the build-up anyway with Sligonian vs Mayo lads.

Kevin Walsh better get his team selection right or he'll be waking up to a horse's head in the bed.

[Foreverhopeful]

It is a pity that we now have no competitive game until Sligo in the Championship. On yesterday's display we will need 4-5 changes. As bad as Mayo were we could  have won that game yesterday. I mean that. We had 2 great goal chances from Ronnie and Aidan O'Shea. We could have gone into half-time in the lead.

As regards Andy Moran and Trev filtering back into half-back line, how many times did this then allow Cork to start attacks from their half-back line and always be able to create an overlap. They always had one man over because Mayo weren't marking higher up the pitch. Cork's scores were so much easier to come by because of this. They always had that yard more space. Mayo's attack didn't have that liberty..

I have calmed down a bit since yesterday but one thing that is sticking in my mind is that Alan Dillon is not a center forward. He has been one of the best no. 12's in the game but in the center he doesn't offer enough physicality or scoring. He takes too many touches when the ball should have been let in earlier. We need him scoring rather than creating IMO.

I think it's a pity David Heaney didn't wait around one more year. I think he could have done a job at center back. It pains me to know that JOM will leave Howley there. He will get away with his loose marking a bit more on smaller pitches but in Croker he is a HUGE liability. How he could go from U-21 corner back to Senior center back without playing there for his club is beyond me.

[INDIANA]

Logan you don't think a team that finished 2nd in Div 1 couldn't beat most of those teams you've named.
Div 2 is still a lower standard then Div 1 . i enjoyed the div2 final yesterday but I wouldn't go making outlandish predictions that Mayo football is finished because of yesterday. i'd still maintain Mayo are in better shape then last year.
People are finding it to reconcile how far Cork and Kerry are ahead at present.

No one said they're finished - I just can't see Mayo winning an AI!
What's League got to do with it???
We're talking Championship, All Irelands - which are all that matter - and come Championship Sunday Div 1 and Div 2 status will mean nothing. Sure even winning the whole League means nothing come Championship - ask Derry!

Yes, Mayo could be in better shape - but come Championship Sundays they'll get the heebie geebies and crumble against any of those teams I named.

League has more to do with Logan then you're saying. its no coincidence the leinster championship is the poorest out there because it has only 1 Div 1 team.

League means nothing come championship - especially in Ulster above all places.
Standard of football isn't great in Leinster - but do you think McGeeney is worried about a League or even Gilroy?
You can win all the leagues you want but it doesn't matter.

The year Armagh won the AI they were in Div 2
Kerry never bothered with the league for decades
Derry won the League and then lost to Fermangh in the first round!
Runners up the next and bombed in the championship.
I could go on ...

Kerry have won 3 leagues this deacade.At least 2 of them they won the all-ireland the same year.
I can guarantee you the winner of this years All-Ireland resides in Div 1.

[An Gaeilgoir]

surely at this stage Larnap this has to be HIS team if not how many more years before it is ?

I see him having one more year (2011) to do this. By then, he should have brought on the younger players as far as it possible for anyone to do. He has a promising side coming along but there is only so much that a manager can achieve with any panel of players and Johnno and his cubs are no exception.
After the Meath debacle last season, I fully expected him to step down. I would have fully understood it if he had done so; up to that point, I had thought he hadn't a clue and had no problem saying so. But he started off last season by making a fair fist of building up some sort of a settled team and, going on form, Mayo should have knocked Meath aside without any problems.
They didn't but in the process showed that they were nowhere near the standard required to win an AI and could well have lost the Connacht Final as well.
I expected the 'legacy' players would have led the way and provided the bit of cuteness and leadership needed to keep the team together. Quite plainly, they didn't; if anything, the lot of them were more at sea than any of the younger lads on show that day.
I don't think any of them owe us anything but I can't see an All Ireland coming our way until Johnno has developed suitable replacements for most if not all of them.
That's why I was intrigued when he stayed on for another year; he must see some potential in the younger lads or why go through another year of pure hell?
Our half forward line should have carried the fight to Cork yesterday; for a mixture of experience and a proven record of individual brilliance at times, they would be hard to beat anywhere.
Yesterday they failed to show up and the Cork half backs, O'Leary in particular, had ample time and space to set up one attack after another. The same thing happened during most of the first half down in Cork but Mayo managed to tighten up after the first 25 minutes or so. Yup; the midfield and our own half backs were overwhelmed also but the rot began where one should least expect it to happen.
In fairness to Conoreen, he did have a good day but he can be as unpredictable as a baby's bum and only Clarkie, from the Boys of the Old Brigade, came through with his reputation intact. He just doesn't play substandard games.
Mayo have had a commendable league run—no doubt about that and one stinker won't turn the emerging players into plodders overnight but Johnno will have to come up a whole lot of others if he is to stand a chance of winning out before he runs out of time and talent available to him.
He has come up with a lot of new faces with serious potential during the league and only time will tell if he can find enough others to finish the job. I'm just afraid he won't find them by looking to the past.
Onwards and upwards; let's teach Sligonian and co. a bit of manners!

I have to agree with what you have written here, not many players came out of yesterday with their reputation intact, i have to say i thought kevin Mc Loughlin was the stand out man on the mayo team, we wanted the ball which was a rare attribute on the team yesterday and wasn't afraid to take on the ball. We have listened about the new spirit in the team and the never say die attitude of our lads, yet the heads dropped after 20 minutes. Our half back line stood off O' Connor for the whole first half, i watched him kick a point with the nearest mayo man 30 yards away. We have senior players on that team who have come out in the "media" who want to be leaders on this team, well there were a lot of them hiding in the bushes on Jones road by the looks of things, when is the last time a player in a Mayo jersey in Croke park got a game by the balls and pulled the rest of the team through with him? Do we not have these characters in Mayo. Look at Stevie Mc Donnell or Benny Coulter yesterday, win at all cost attitude, head in first came out with the ball, make the most of the possession and so on. Cork are a serious outfit, big, athletic and good footballers and winning is a good habit no matter what competition. Cork wanted to put last years defeat  in Croker,behind them, we were afraid to in my opinion. We are still a mentally fragile team on the big occasion, the facts at this stage don't lie, and having read a comment by one of our players in one of the papers today following yesterdays defeat that the Mayo players are "getting used to losing in Croke park", it looks like the team of '51 will have to carry the torch for a few more years yet.

[INDIANA]

It is a pity that we now have no competitive game until Sligo in the Championship. On yesterday's display we will need 4-5 changes. As bad as Mayo were we could  have won that game yesterday. I mean that. We had 2 great goal chances from Ronnie and Aidan O'Shea. We could have gone into half-time in the lead.

As regards Andy Moran and Trev filtering back into half-back line, how many times did this then allow Cork to start attacks from their half-back line and always be able to create an overlap. They always had one man over because Mayo weren't marking higher up the pitch. Cork's scores were so much easier to come by because of this. They always had that yard more space. Mayo's attack didn't have that liberty..

I have calmed down a bit since yesterday but one thing that is sticking in my mind is that Alan Dillon is not a center forward. He has been one of the best no. 12's in the game but in the center he doesn't offer enough physicality or scoring. He takes too many touches when the ball should have been let in earlier. We need him scoring rather than creating IMO.

I think it's a pity David Heaney didn't wait around one more year. I think he could have done a job at center back. It pains me to know that JOM will leave Howley there. He will get away with his loose marking a bit more on smaller pitches but in Croker he is a HUGE liability. How he could go from U-21 corner back to Senior center back without playing there for his club is beyond me.

I saw Dublin failing miserably with the same strategy of dropping half forwards back to mark nobody. You can't invite a team like Cork onto you like that. The tackling of the Mayo forwards was absymal. Lads like Aidan O shea and Mortimer have to do the dirty stuff as well.

[Logan]

You can't guarantee anything.


Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.

Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.

[Chimley]

You can't guarantee anything.


Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.

Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.

Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.

[ross4life]

hasn't Mark Ronaldson been Mayo's Top scorer this year? he was only half fit when he came on yesterday & IMO a certain Start v Sligo

[BallyhaiseMan]

Now as an outsider,i dont know if the mayoheads would agree with me, but for a county with such a rich tradition,and obvious talent,i dont think JOM has done a good job whatsoever.
What i seen yesterday was a team going out to play pure football with very little tactical nous displayed whatsoever.
To even contend with such an athletic, slick cork team requires cynicism and pure ignorance that Mayo just do not have.
i dont see any hint of a well planned and practised defensive system in place,which is more than just players filtering behind the ball.
Alan Dillon is top drawer,Aidan O Shea will be in 2/3 years time.
Donal Vaughan,Seamus O Se,Conor Mortimer,Andy Moran,Ronan McGarrity,Tom Parsons,Aidan Kilcoyne,Keith Higgins are talented players,more so than virtually all but 4/5 counties,but JOM has gotten absolutely f**k all out of them, and at the moment,you would unfortunately have to say,they are an very average team. With the right management/coaching and gameplan they could be so much more.

[Logan]

You can't guarantee anything.


Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.

Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.

Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.

Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.

Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.

I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.

[SLIGONIAN]

I think we could be in serious trouble against Sligo in six week times.
Its all set up for a perfect ambush.

Should be good value in the build-up anyway with Sligonian vs Mayo lads.

Kevin Walsh better get his team selection right or he'll be waking up to a horse's head in the bed.

Well its back to drawing board as far im concerned for mayo, but GBB i and most of the Sligo lads know our starting line up already. KW has done a great job and unearthed talent i and a few other sligolads knew would make it so really I have no criticisms of Walsh at all. Hes pretty done what i would do so i cant whinge . Even on sat nite in the past Id be whinging about managers not making changes, and he made a switch the last day that saved us a few scores, i could see it before he did it, but unlike the past he was quick to do it. Walsh is the real deal. And no yere never getting him back, he wasnt good enough for yere minors so tough luck .

Ross4life, ronaldson will be in harrisons or donovans pocket.

[An Gaeilgoir]

You can't guarantee anything.


Kerry know as well as everyone that AI's are all that matter. They use the League to blood new players and get games in before they hit first round of the championship as they start so late - and that's all it means to them. If they happen to win it big deal.

Winning the National League means nothing come championship.
Playing in it means you get a few good games for new players and that's all.

Logan you are all over the place with your reasoning. You use the fact that Mayo got a trimming yesterday to point to the fact that we are useless and at the same time say that winning leagues doesn't matter. It's not long ago as you pointed out that Derry hammered Kerry in a league final.

Mayo are useless?
No, I just don't think the standard of football in the current Mayo team is good enough to win an All Ireland.
I don't think Connacht football is of a similar standard to the other provinces - especially around championship time.
Winning Leagues is a pointless predictor of championship success.
If you think Kerry winning a league is a predictor of AI success then you're sadly mistaken.

Again - an open draw would help level the playing field and improve the standard of football in all provinces.

I'd agree with most of what BallyhaiseMan has said above also.
[/quote

This has to be a wind up merchant

[Logan]

So Gaeilgoir ... 3 quick yes/no answers ..
You think Mayo are good enough to win an AI?
You think Connacht football is of a higher standard than Ulster and Leinster when it comes to Championship?
You believe winning a League is a predictor of success in Championship?