Sinn Fein vs Sieg Heil - Spot the Difference

[boojangles]

why has the very existence of a monument to Nazi collaboration not been questioned by anyone higher up the political pecking order than local councillors from Fine Gael and Labour?

Because people Don't give a f**k!! EG and the odd Journalist can make what they like out of it,but thats the bottom line.Shame comes from within-not what other people try to make you ashamed off. Now get over it,because everybody else has.

[Evil Genius]

so russell (who I didnt know much of to be honest - so much for being a well known 'hereo' among republicans) was captain of the luftwaffe or something like that ! ! 

Russell was sufficiently "heroic" amongst Republicans for them to erect a Statue to him in Dublin. If you are too ignorant to have known much about him, then that is your problem - compounded by your insisting on commenting on him nonetheless...  

P.S. FYI, he was not a "captain of the luftwaffe or something like that"; rather he was an IRA leader who collaborated with the Nazis before and during the 2nd World War. I assume you know at least a little about the 2nd World War - it was in all the papers...

[Evil Genius]

Shame comes from within

And you apparently have none.

Congratulations - you have that much in common with Russell, at least.

[boojangles]

Shame comes from within

And you apparently have none.

Congratulations - you have that much in common with Russell, at least.

No.

I would have a few things in common with Russell Im sure.

If you feel so strongly about it,why don't you round up Kevin Myers and the D4 set and go to your local County councillor and complain?
Or do you even live in this country???

[Evil Genius]

Shame comes from within

And you apparently have none.

Congratulations - you have that much in common with Russell, at least.

No.

I would have a few things in common with Russell Im sure.

If you feel so strongly about it,why don't you round up Kevin Myers and the D4 set and go to your local County councillor and complain?
Or do you even live in this country???

If by "this country" you mean the Irish Republic, then no, I do not. However, since I live in the UK, and SF are helping administer British rule in that part of the UK dearest to me, I am always concerned to see what they are up to, whether it be at home or in a foreign country...

[lynchbhoy]

so russell (who I didnt know much of to be honest - so much for being a well known 'hereo' among republicans) was captain of the luftwaffe or something like that ! ! 

Russell was sufficiently "heroic" amongst Republicans for them to erect a Statue to him in Dublin. If you are too ignorant to have known much about him, then that is your problem - compounded by your insisting on commenting on him nonetheless...  

P.S. FYI, he was not a "captain of the luftwaffe or something like that"; rather he was an IRA leader who collaborated with the Nazis before and during the 2nd World War. I assume you know at least a little about the 2nd World War - it was in all the papers...

maybe he meant something to some people and while I admit I am not up on the republicans list of heroes etc, I have heard plenty from Irish history and russell wasnt one of them. Irish history is something I used to read quite a lot about.

so what big plans and world war II initiatives did russel help the nazi's and germans with in the war then.
Jeez maybe I should have been reading german /war history and saw russel standing beside itler on the podium.

yer a great laugh - trying to big up this guy and his 'influence' in the ww2 !

[lynchbhoy]

Shame comes from within

And you apparently have none.

Congratulations - you have that much in common with Russell, at least.

No.

I would have a few things in common with Russell Im sure.

If you feel so strongly about it,why don't you round up Kevin Myers and the D4 set and go to your local County councillor and complain?
Or do you even live in this country???

If by "this country" you mean the Irish Republic, then no, I do not. However, since I live in the UK, and SF are helping administer British rule in that part of the UK dearest to me, I am always concerned to see what they are up to, whether it be at home or in a foreign country...

so you dont live in Ireland then , over the water in England !

[Evil Genius]

maybe he meant something to some people and while I admit I am not up on the republicans list of heroes etc, I have heard plenty from Irish history and russell wasnt one of them. Irish history is something I used to read quite a lot about.

If you don't know about an IRA Leader who has had a statue erected in his "honour" in Dublin by the NGA, then maybe you've been reading the wrong history books.

so what big plans and world war II initiatives did russel help the nazi's and germans with in the war then.
Jeez maybe I should have been reading german /war history and saw russel standing beside itler on the podium.
yer a great laugh - trying to big up this guy and his 'influence' in the ww2 !

Even if Russell was actually to prove an ineffectual leader, the record of his willing collaboration with the Nazi regime is quite clear. Personally I don't find the following a subject for levity:

http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-holocaust&month=9710&week=b&msg=/SHct1PpljHPcfOUXhraOw&user=&pw=
I helped Hitler bomb Belfast, says IRA man
Electronic Telegraph, 12 October 1997, Issue 871
By Jacqui Thornton


THE IRA provided the Nazis with vital military intelligence during the
Second World War, a former Irish senator will claim this week.
It is alleged that the information about vulnerable targets in Belfast
aided Luftwaffe bombing raids that left 1,100 people dead and 25,000
homeless.
The claims by Sam McAughtry, an RAF veteran of the Battle of Britain, are
based on confessions of a former IRA activist. The source gathered the
evidence in Belfast before and after the Germans carried out the four
bombing raids of 1941. Now an elderly man, the source - who refuses to be
identified for fear of reprisals - admits he gave guidance on targets and
reported on damage of two highly destructive raids on the city's
docklands.
The information was passed to his "Officer Commanding" in the IRA and fed
to the German legation in Dublin and then into Germany itself.  Ireland
remained neutral throughout the war. Mr McAughtry says that the former
activist is now ashamed and appalled that as a young man he actively helped
the Nazis to kill his fellow countrymen.
The former senator, who stood down from his post in July, is a respected
independent with a Protestant Unionist background. He will make the
allegations in a controversial documentary to be screened on Channel 4 on
Wednesday.
Although the former IRA activist is not interviewed on screen, the former
senator describes his confession as impeccable. He says: "The IRA were
particularly involved in reporting the damage done in the first raid so
that it could be destroyed in the second." Channel 4 made its own inquiries
to verify the story.
The timing of the documentary will be particularly embarrassing for Sinn
Fein as it claims that Dominic Adams - the uncle of Gerry - was
quartermaster under Sean Russell, the then Chief of Staff for the IRA in
its campaign against English targets in 1939.
It shows footage of how Russell collaborated with the Nazis on a U-boat on
Operation Pigeon but died before it could come to fruition.
It also contains interviews with Republican supporters who worked with
Edmund Veesenmeyer, at one time Hitler's security officer, who was later
sentenced to 20 years at Nuremberg for crimes against humanity.
The director of the film, Gerry Greg, said: "The programme simply tells an
English audience a few things they did not know about the people they're
negotiating with at Stormont."
He said he believed that "hundreds" of IRA activists were used to gather
information harmful to the Allies.
"Irishmen were not going to fight England's war, they were going to fight
their own. But Catholics and Protestants perished," he said.  "Even if the
reports were simply to say that civilian morale was shattered, that was
enough."

[lynchbhoy]

the Irish history books dont make a big deal of him.

As for your 'russell plots world domination with hitler'

well that ranks up there with the people that 'saw aliens' and helped the aliens kidnap elvis !

I am sure he sided with the germans, but the level is in question, I very much doubt he played much part in helping them.
Unless the ira at the time had more advanced electronic systems, information and weapons that we actually realised !
(hint - no they didnt)

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

The claims by Sam McAughtry, an RAF veteran of the Battle of Britain, are
based on confessions of a former IRA activist.
Mr McAughtry says that the former
activist is now ashamed and appalled that as a young man he actively helped
the Nazis to kill his fellow countrymen.
Although the former IRA activist is not interviewed on screen,
The director of the film, Gerry Greg, said: "The programme simply tells an
English audience a few things they did not know about the people they're
negotiating with at Stormont."He said he believed that "hundreds" of IRA activists were used to gather
information harmful to the Allies.
"Irishmen were not going to fight England's war, they were going to fight
their own. But Catholics and Protestants perished," he said.  "Even if the
reports were simply to say that civilian morale was shattered, that was
enough."

Impartial journalism! 
Man with an agenda eh! 

[Jim_Murphy_74]

The claims by Sam McAughtry, an RAF veteran of the Battle of Britain, are
based on confessions of a former IRA activist.
Mr McAughtry says that the former
activist is now ashamed and appalled that as a young man he actively helped
the Nazis to kill his fellow countrymen.
Although the former IRA activist is not interviewed on screen,
The director of the film, Gerry Greg, said: "The programme simply tells an
English audience a few things they did not know about the people they're
negotiating with at Stormont."He said he believed that "hundreds" of IRA activists were used to gather
information harmful to the Allies.
"Irishmen were not going to fight England's war, they were going to fight
their own. But Catholics and Protestants perished," he said.  "Even if the
reports were simply to say that civilian morale was shattered, that was
enough."

Impartial journalism! 
Man with an agenda eh! 

Indeed I wonder how many WW2 IRA veterans are sitting in Stormont?

/Jim.

[Main Street]

so russell (who I didnt know much of to be honest - so much for being a well known 'hereo' among republicans) was captain of the luftwaffe or something like that ! ! 

Russell in the matters that are important, in his responsibility as COS, he was inept and strategically naive.
I certainly don't regard him as a hero in the responsibility that was accorded him.

There was an attempt by revisionist historians like David O'Donoghue to portray Frank Ryan as an Irish version of Quisling,
like many of Irish revisionist historians, he used false memory as historical fact combined with postmortem interviews as support

[Evil Genius]

the Irish history books dont make a big deal of him.

Whether a "big deal" or not, history records that Russell was an IRA leader who actively and willingly collaborated with the Nazis. and despite this fact, SF and the NGA make a big enough "deal" to erected a statue in his "honour" even 60 years later - which was my point all along.

As for your 'russell plots world domination with hitler'

No, I never claimed that - that is your transparent attempt at diversion.

well that ranks up there with the people that 'saw aliens' and helped the aliens kidnap elvis !

Puerile.

I am sure he sided with the germans, but the level is in question, I very much doubt he played much part in helping them.
Unless the ira at the time had more advanced electronic systems, information and weapons that we actually realised !
(hint - no they didnt)

Whether he was effectual or had any great technical capacity etc is decidedly NOT the "question"; rather there is a principle at stake here. And whatever your attempts at obfuscation or denial, your inability or unwillingness to recognise that says it all.

[Evil Genius]

Impartial journalism! 
Man with an agenda eh! 

Journalist with a documentary to promote, actually, but it is the substance of his story which is significant, not the billing.

Speaking of which, Sam McAughtry was a man of greater integrity than you or I could ever lay claim to. If you read one of the volumes of his autobiography, "Sam's War", he describes his involvement in WWII - on the opposite side from Russell. In his RAF unit, there were several volunteers from the Free State, with whom Sam and the other Ulstermen became firm and lifelong friends. You can imagine his anger and dismay upon learning that while those (genuinely) "united Irishmen" were bravely fighting Fascism in Europe, other Irish "patriots" were in league with the Nazis, even to the extent of helping them bomb his family, friends and neighbours to smithereens back in Belfast.

People like Sam McAughtry are a million times more worthy of commemoration than a murderous sc**bag like Sean Russell, and would be, were there not so many fcuked-up apologists in Ireland, even 60 years later.  

[lynchbhoy]

the Irish history books dont make a big deal of him.

Whether a "big deal" or not, history records that Russell was an IRA leader who actively and willingly collaborated with the Nazis. and despite this fact, SF and the NGA make a big enough "deal" to erected a statue in his "honour" even 60 years later - which was my point all along.

As for your 'russell plots world domination with hitler'

No, I never claimed that - that is your transparent attempt at diversion.

well that ranks up there with the people that 'saw aliens' and helped the aliens kidnap elvis !

Puerile.

I am sure he sided with the germans, but the level is in question, I very much doubt he played much part in helping them.
Unless the ira at the time had more advanced electronic systems, information and weapons that we actually realised !
(hint - no they didnt)

Whether he was effectual or had any great technical capacity etc is decidedly NOT the "question"; rather there is a principle at stake here. And whatever your attempts at obfuscation or denial, your inability or unwillingness to recognise that says it all.

you use the word puile and I think this is very apt for your attempt to link russell and his wish to see a german victory in ww2 with modern day sinn fein and republicanism.
I am sure in your own mind that russell and his 'abillities' offered great and profound help to the german war campaign - but in reality that some ira COS in  a'quiet period' where the IRA were not really up to much - to you seems like he was almost stalinesque in stature and importance says it all.
yes , purile indeed !  I think you are facing into the wind there, try not to get too wet!