Armagh v Down- 29th June-Ulster Semi Final Thread

[Feckitt]

Dodgy Umpire you are out of order.  Big Jackie is a good player who works hard.  If he is not good enough for his place amongst Dan Gordon, Ambrose and Colgan, then that is no disgrace. 
Get behind your team, and try and positively contribute.  I am an Armagh man, but I know Jackie personally.  And I bet you Ten thousand pound to one, that you  wouldn't say to his face that he is crap. 
Get a life you coward

[Fear Boirche]

have to be critical of the management team lads - i really think down have the crux of a team that should progress to the last 8 on a regular basis, but without a system of play based on armagh's style we will never get anywhere.

we dominated midfield for the best part of 3 games, and when its an old fashioned shoot em up, we are just about ok, but will always struggle with the lack of quality out and out defenders. instead when we come against an armagh style game plan, we have no plan B in attack, no alternative at all, and our defence is left exposed time and time again.

we need to adopt a defensive style game plan ASAP or else we face another 10 yrs in the wilderness.

ps why didnt we throw ambrose or someone like into num14 when running the ball in wasnt working. lets have 2 or 3 big men in there and launch the ball in on the full back line. jesus at least give it a try when plan A doesnt work!

I don't think there needs to be a major tactical overhaul. What happened yesterday was just as I'd feared.
Player for player, I think we were capable of matching Armagh, but I always knew that if it came down to a battle of wits, that Armagh would win because Peter McDonnell is a very shrewd tactician.

Having said that, I don't think we need to ape Armagh to get success. Ok, we need a plan B, but I still think we should play to our strengths which is essentially a running game and quick movement. It's no coincidence that we ruled midfield in the two Tyrone games, yet still got more joy out of the passes down the channels to our half-forwards and the quick interchanging of passing.
There's no point in adapting a rigorous defensive style when we simply don't have that type of player in the county.

Looking at the qualifiers and I think we have been lucky to draw one of the few counties with a worse record than us in the qualifiers.
We are a better team than we were in the division 2 final against them in 2004 and they have gone in the opposite direction.
Yesterday was a big letdown, but I think it will give the managment the chance to front up to some things the Tyrone win maybe papered over. However, as I say, no major change needed and with Cole back at FB, we should have a more settled look in defence.

[downredblack]

Dodgy umpire

I don't think comments such as yours adds anything to the Down cause and I'm sure you would agree that sacrifices made by the county panel would far outweigh those of the average club player . It's easy to name call from behind your desk, Lynch and others have the balls to go out and give it a go .

[mylestheslasher]

Have to compliment Armagh on the huge support they bring  - they must have outnumbered Down 4 to 1 yesterday.

I was at the match to watch Cavans minors and I thought Down had way more support. Anyway, I thought the best team won. Down huffed and puffed just like cavan did against Armagh but just didn't have the quality to make it count. Armagh had two forwards that were just too good. I though Clarke was outstanding yesterday. He was being double marked most of the game but his movement and the timing of the balls into him is tremendous. Down just don't have forwards of that ability. It never looked like Down could get back to level terms in the 2nd half and their short hand passing around Armagh 45 was just bringing the ball into contact which mostly meant a turnover. One thing I'd be worried about was Armaghs tackling. I thought it was very poor and over aggressive and gifted Down frees, which was the only thing that kept them in touch at all. I think Fermanagh will be a harder team for Armagh and I wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh won that encounter.

[Brick Tamlin]

regarding Doyle, he had a late fitness test on saturday evening in Derryleckagh playing fields and didnt come through it with much success, he shouldnt have started really, it was a risk i guess and seems it has backfired.

whatever about the management, if our players miss kickable frees, squander numerous scoring opportunities, turn the ball over when in possession, give loopy hospital handpasses, persist in hugging the ball /run into traffic and in general choosing the wrong option nearly 60% of the time then how can you expect to win?

I feel the team that started (and possibly finished) had enough quality to win that match yesterday without a doubt and were in no menas up against a good team and thats what makes the defeat all the more galling. Armagh did what they had do and have become experts at their system, whereas we were quite mediocre in most things we did, some of the Down players looked like wee boys at different stages and one or two have been very disappointing this year so far. That doesnt mean i think there should be overhaul in management or player personnel or radical surgery, basically the best footballers in Down are on that panel with the exception of a few (ref newry shamrocks).


on the other hand if i were an armaghh man i wouldnt be too confident or bullish about long term chances of silverwear based on that performance. Alot of mediocre players on that team and a few passengers too allied to a few older guys that are done doesnt bode well in my eyes. Without Clarke and mc donnell they are mediocre at best. Basically Clarke was the difference yesterday. hard to arugue agaisnt that.

[dodgy umpire]

Dodgy Umpire you are out of order.  Big Jackie is a good player who works hard.  If he is not good enough for his place amongst Dan Gordon, Ambrose and Colgan, then that is no disgrace. 
Get behind your team, and try and positively contribute.  I am an Armagh man, but I know Jackie personally.  And I bet you Ten thousand pound to one, that you  wouldn't say to his face that he is crap. 
Get a life you coward

i didnt say it is a disgrace hes on the team i simply said what many believe: he is no good. i am behind my team ive stuck up for the management (unlike some) ive praised the defensive efforts etc. how is it out of order to say someone is crap. i dare say that if i did say it to jackies face he wouldnt whinge about like you are.

Dodgy umpire

I don't think comments such as yours adds anything to the Down cause and I'm sure you would agree that sacrifices made by the county panel would far outweigh those of the average club player . It's easy to name call from behind your desk, Lynch and others have the balls to go out and give it a go .

granted the sacrifices far outwiegh mine or anyone elses playing club football, i dont understand what you mean they have the balls to go out and give it a go though, is it not the case that you have to be given the oppertunity by selectors and management, which many great players arent?

[Feckitt]

Dodgy Umpire you are out of order.  Big Jackie is a good player who works hard.  If he is not good enough for his place amongst Dan Gordon, Ambrose and Colgan, then that is no disgrace. 
Get behind your team, and try and positively contribute.  I am an Armagh man, but I know Jackie personally.  And I bet you Ten thousand pound to one, that you  wouldn't say to his face that he is crap. 
Get a life you coward

i didnt say it is a disgrace hes on the team i simply said what many believe: he is no good. i am behind my team ive stuck up for the management (unlike some) ive praised the defensive efforts etc. how is it out of order to say someone is crap. i dare say that if i did say it to jackies face he wouldnt whinge about like you are.




I dare say that if you did say it to Jackie's face then you'd get a shlap for your trouble

[dodgy umpire]

yes and quite rightly so as it would be rude to say the least to walk up to a fellow gael and say "your crap". however if he asked me what i thought  of him i wouldnt lie to the man , but like i said i doubt hes overly fussed.
i apologise. perhaps i could have used more politically correct language. to rephrase :jackie lynch is a hard worker and a great role model to all, however he maybe shouldnt start due to a lack of pace and skill

[Feckitt]

Good lad

[Hardy]

it would be rude to say the least to walk up to a fellow gael and say "your crap".

Not to mention baffling. "You're crap" would be rude as well.

[dodgy umpire]

what can i say, im tired after yesterday

[Harps 21]

On the day, Down just weren't good enough, but I don't think there's really much between the 2 teams - Doyle having to go off was a huge blow to down, both from open play in terms of his astute positional play and distribution from CHB, but also from left-footed frees, a number of which he probably would have slung over that Carr missed.  Sexton and Murtagh failed to contribute much yesterday, and I would have to ask is there room for the two of them on the same team?  Would have to agree that John Clarke i not the answer at corner forward, though I would like to see him moved out to wing-half-forward, where he would give us a more physical presence.  I would say the time has come against Offaly for McComiskey to be given a chance from the start to show what he's capable of.  

As for the final, I can't see Fermanagh making much headway against the Armaghmen.  Fermanagh may have a stronger defence than Down, but I can't see their forwards outscoring the Armagh ones.  They might manage 1-9 or something to that effect, but in a tight game, I could well see McDonnell and Clarke  scoring just about enough to see Armagh home.  Down were no worldbeaters after having beaten Tyrone the last day, nor are they suddenly crap after being beaten by a fine Armagh team.  The team have genuinely moved forward, we are now competing ith the top teams in Ireland as not before in the last number of years.  If anything this current Down team reminds me of the Armagh team of the late 90s who went close against Tyrone in 97' and then Derry in 98' before making their breakthrough in 99.  Down followers should not be disheartened for this team is really not too far away.

[balladmaker]

I could well see McDonnell and Clarke  scoring just about enough to see Armagh home

Why all the continued talk about Clarke and McDonnell....should it not be Clarke, McDonnell and S. Kernan,  following Stephen's performance yesterday?

[Armagh4Sam08]

Cant see armagh not beating fermanagh... they will have another gear 2 go 2 if need be!!

[Blue Island]

have to be critical of the management team lads - i really think down have the crux of a team that should progress to the last 8 on a regular basis, but without a system of play based on arm's style we will never get anywhere.

we dominated midfield for the best part of 3 games, and when its an old fashioned shoot em up, we are just about ok, but will always struggle with the lack of quality out and out defenders. instead when we come against an armagh style game plan, we have no plan B in attack, no alternative at all, and our defence is left exposed time and time again.

we need to adopt a defensive style game plan ASAP or else we face another 10 yrs in the wilderness.

ps why didnt we throw ambrose or someone like into num14 when running the ball in wasnt working. lets have 2 or 3 big men in there and launch the ball in on the full back line. jesus at least give it a try when plan A doesnt work!

It seemed to me Ross didn't make the right calls yesterday. Down continuously ran into an Armagh wall yesterday about thirty yards out from goal and turned over possesion. Ambrose or Dan Gordon on the edge of the square for the last twenty mins may have offered a different dynamic.

More concerning was the use of Down's spare man. Down should have had a ball player in and around the midfield-half forward line capable of causing damage. Armagh were starting to give away a lot of frees in this area and if we had of had a spare man taking passes off the shoulder in this section of the pitch we could have caused a lot of damage. Our 'sweeper' through no fault of his touched the ball about three times in the last 25 mins. You would expect the extra man to be constantly on the ball causing a nuisance. Even on our own kick outs we did not use the extra man because of his proximity to our own goal. In effect we wasted a chance to take the game to Armagh.

I would qualify my comments though by saying that whilst I thought we could have made more use of the extra man, it is not a direct criticism of Ross Carr's management. He's the man for the job and like a lot of the Down players this year will have leaned a lot from three tough games. A lot has been said of how Armagh did not play well and still won the game, but by the same token Down were pretty poor and yet with more accurate free taking could have caused an upset. A bit of tweeking here and there and experience gleaned from these games should stand to us well in the qualifiers. For a few years now we have not even been competitive and at least now teams are very wary of us.