Altogether now 2027

[Baile Brigín 2]

the amount of feminists that couldn't wait to stick the boot into the GAA this week and cry Misogny was quite shocking tbh. the only good thing is most of them will move onto their next target soon enough.

The GAA managed this message badly. Equality as per the plan is too expensive, so no equality. It's obvious what the headline would be.

[Rossfan]

"Should Down hurlers get the same funding as the Down footballers, my answer is no...."

Do the hurlers not put in the same effort and time?
Neither are at the top table in League or Championship.

[gallsman]

the big elephant in the room and both the LGFA and CA need to be honest and realistic about that side of it.

Out of curiosity, is there any suggestion that they are unrealistic about it?

They haven't a leg to stand on on that front. The men's game will subsidise the ladies' from top to bottom. I think that's pretty clear to everyone.

Watch Aishlinn Thompsons interview I posted earlier.

It's clear she wants intercounty camogs to have the same funding, benefits and grants as hurlers and footballers without bringing the same income to the pot of money.

Should Down hurlers get the same funding as the Down footballers, my answer is no and they are probably pretty well looked after in terms of what the bring in to the pot already.

That's not misogyny, that's reality.

I get that, but I mean is there any suggestion from either the LGFA or Camogie that they're bringing an equal share to the party? I don't think anyone's arguing that.

In order to achieve equity and/or equality to women's gaelic games, there is no question that the legacy GAA will have to subsidise it. I don't think it's unreasonable for women who put in the same effort in terms of training, coaching, travelling etc to not want to be left out of pocket any more then their male counterparts. Where the money comes from is a different question entirely.

Nobody will ever use the term, but there is an element of "reparations" about things. The GAA is in the dominant financial position it is relative to the order two because it has 140 years of history, in a society where, for the majority of that period, women's sport was of, at best, little import to all but a tiny minority. The LGFA and Camogie have their own institutional and governance issues, but "the GAA is class and makes loads of money and you're both shit because, well, you're shit" is a bit reductive.

[thewobbler]

Just as a point of order folks.

If the stumbling block (or major stumbling block) is that ladies believe they should receive exactly the same benefits as men, then it's not equality they're after: it's egalitarianism.

The difference being:

Equality is when everyone is given the some opportunity, regardless of their background or personal situation.

Egalitarianism is when everyone is given the same outcome, regardless of their effort or achievement.

And I'd ask that people here try to understand and accept this. And if what they want to see happen is egalitarianism, then use that word.

——

Footnote: Egalitarianism is a lovely concept but in reality it does not work at any level, in any discipline or endeavour. You'll find no successful examples of it working in history. High providers and high achievers just pick up their things and leave, and take those who understand and accept this, with them.

[thewobbler]

"Should Down hurlers get the same funding as the Down footballers, my answer is no...."

Do the hurlers not put in the same effort and time?
Neither are at the top table in League or Championship.

You might not know our county well. But we have approximately 10 serious hurling clubs and approximately 30 serious football clubs.

Which innately brings along a few facts of life:

It's roughly 3 times more difficult to become a county footballer than a county hurler, in Down.

Football's reach (support interest base) in terms of leadership, marketing, communications, sponsorship is roughly threefold.

So when you wonder if hurlers in our county put in the same effort it's a valid question. But it's a heavily loaded question too. For without the money brought in by football's extended reach, those hurlers who want to invest their lives into getting better at an amateur sport, would likely have a different set of challenges each year.

[thewobbler]

the big elephant in the room and both the LGFA and CA need to be honest and realistic about that side of it.

Out of curiosity, is there any suggestion that they are unrealistic about it?

They haven't a leg to stand on on that front. The men's game will subsidise the ladies' from top to bottom. I think that's pretty clear to everyone.

Watch Aishlinn Thompsons interview I posted earlier.

It's clear she wants intercounty camogs to have the same funding, benefits and grants as hurlers and footballers without bringing the same income to the pot of money.

Should Down hurlers get the same funding as the Down footballers, my answer is no and they are probably pretty well looked after in terms of what the bring in to the pot already.

That's not misogyny, that's reality.

I get that, but I mean is there any suggestion from either the LGFA or Camogie that they're bringing an equal share to the party? I don't think anyone's arguing that.

In order to achieve equity and/or equality to women's gaelic games, there is no question that the legacy GAA will have to subsidise it. I don't think it's unreasonable for women who put in the same effort in terms of training, coaching, travelling etc to not want to be left out of pocket any more then their male counterparts. Where the money comes from is a different question entirely.

Nobody will ever use the term, but there is an element of "reparations" about things. The GAA is in the dominant financial position it is relative to the order two because it has 140 years of history, in a society where, for the majority of that period, women's sport was of, at best, little import to all but a tiny minority. The LGFA and Camogie have their own institutional and governance issues, but "the GAA is class and makes loads of money and you're both shit because, well, you're shit" is a bit reductive.

It is indeed a bit reductive.

But it's also reductive to assume that those institutional and governance issues will not haunt, absolutely haunt, this merger, if not addressed in advance.

I'll give you the case of any career county board official, up and down the country. He / she is likely to have a strong inclination towards either football or hurling, hence they are willing to freely give up their time to help administer their preferred sport. They'll accept, partly because they're Gaels, and partly because it has always been the case, that this means working with and facilitating hurling / football (whichever doesn't float their boat).

The life of this volunteer was poised to change quite heftily, up until this week. Those same logistical challenges were about to double, and his / her influence was about to halve.

More meetings, more aggravation, more stress, and all likely to be underlined with accusations of misogyny at every turn.

This merger was always going to be fraught beyond words at a county board level.

It would be reductive to think there are enough people in any county to happily split their time and interests and preferences 4 ways.

[Captain Scarlet]

Sorry to be coming at this again, but the reason we are all talking about this is because of who stepped down from a committee and the others reacting to that.

How much expenses were claimed by that group with zero outcome. How can you sit as a chair of something with zero goals and milestones? Surely you must know nothing is happening?!

Then they need a change expert? So be it, but are they allowed point out that most clubs and county boards have serviceable loans that are in the name of the GAA.

As we are talking about equity, will the LGFA and Camogie be asked to buy a share in centres of excellence, etc?

[johnnycool]

"Should Down hurlers get the same funding as the Down footballers, my answer is no...."

Do the hurlers not put in the same effort and time?
Neither are at the top table in League or Championship.

They probably do, but if they get attendances of a couple of hundred at best as opposed to a couple of thousand to a football game then expectations need to be lower.

I'm not entirely sure how for instance the national league gate receipts are divvied out, I'd not expect Down hurlers to be getting the same as Cork hurlers, or Dublin footballers, would you?

Why would a Cork camog expect to get the same benefits as their hurlers irrespective of how much effort they put in.

It's the same principle.

On your point Wobbler, I've consistently told our county board delegate (and current Down CC delegate) that Sean O'g would be better off retiring as this amalgamation at Co board level will be an unmitigated disaster knowing how Down Camogie board operate.

This can go so wrong on so many levels and it won't be misogyny to blame, it's a huge undertaking.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Hold on. Are we talking about the gate share county boards get or individual players?

So the Down footballer gets x milage and three square means a day, the hurler x/2 and one and a half?

[Wildweasel74]

I seen Slaughtneil senior 6 weeks ago playing Bellaghy down on the bottom pitch. While the main top pitch was used for a ladies minor/U16 game, so they fit to work round the multitude of teams they have.

[Armagh18]

A lot of teams in the country don't have a second pitch to have that luxury, but seems like an absolute necessity now for any club, maybe even a third in some cases.

[johnnycool]

Hold on. Are we talking about the gate share county boards get or individual players?

So the Down footballer gets x milage and three square means a day, the hurler x/2 and one and a half?

A bit of everything.
If the ladies want equity, equality or egalitarianism as Wobbler pointed out, then the money each CB has to invest in it's county teams has to come from it's own revenue streams and if they're getting a bigger slice of league and championship revenues that'll filter down to the county players, development squads etc.

They get the same mileage (well up North is different to the southern rates, most due to our benefit in kind laws being different) but they don't get three square meals a day unlike the Dublin footballers, if that's what you are asking.
I'd doubt the Down footballers get 3 square meals a day. Friar Tucks couldn't keep up to that.

[gallsman]

the big elephant in the room and both the LGFA and CA need to be honest and realistic about that side of it.

Out of curiosity, is there any suggestion that they are unrealistic about it?

They haven't a leg to stand on on that front. The men's game will subsidise the ladies' from top to bottom. I think that's pretty clear to everyone.

Watch Aishlinn Thompsons interview I posted earlier.

It's clear she wants intercounty camogs to have the same funding, benefits and grants as hurlers and footballers without bringing the same income to the pot of money.

Should Down hurlers get the same funding as the Down footballers, my answer is no and they are probably pretty well looked after in terms of what the bring in to the pot already.

That's not misogyny, that's reality.

I get that, but I mean is there any suggestion from either the LGFA or Camogie that they're bringing an equal share to the party? I don't think anyone's arguing that.

In order to achieve equity and/or equality to women's gaelic games, there is no question that the legacy GAA will have to subsidise it. I don't think it's unreasonable for women who put in the same effort in terms of training, coaching, travelling etc to not want to be left out of pocket any more then their male counterparts. Where the money comes from is a different question entirely.

Nobody will ever use the term, but there is an element of "reparations" about things. The GAA is in the dominant financial position it is relative to the order two because it has 140 years of history, in a society where, for the majority of that period, women's sport was of, at best, little import to all but a tiny minority. The LGFA and Camogie have their own institutional and governance issues, but "the GAA is class and makes loads of money and you're both shit because, well, you're shit" is a bit reductive.

It is indeed a bit reductive.

But it's also reductive to assume that those institutional and governance issues will not haunt, absolutely haunt, this merger, if not addressed in advance.

I'll give you the case of any career county board official, up and down the country. He / she is likely to have a strong inclination towards either football or hurling, hence they are willing to freely give up their time to help administer their preferred sport. They'll accept, partly because they're Gaels, and partly because it has always been the case, that this means working with and facilitating hurling / football (whichever doesn't float their boat).

The life of this volunteer was poised to change quite heftily, up until this week. Those same logistical challenges were about to double, and his / her influence was about to halve.

More meetings, more aggravation, more stress, and all likely to be underlined with accusations of misogyny at every turn.

This merger was always going to be fraught beyond words at a county board level.

It would be reductive to think there are enough people in any county to happily split their time and interests and preferences 4 ways.

I don't disagree with any of that. For wont of a better word, there will be "casualties" at all levels up and down the country at all levels.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Nobody will ever use the term, but there is an element of "reparations" about things. The GAA is in the dominant financial position it is relative to the order two because it has 140 years of history, in a society where, for the majority of that period, women's sport was of, at best, little import to all but a tiny minority. The LGFA and Camogie have their own institutional and governance issues, but "the GAA is class and makes loads of money and you're both shit because, well, you're shit" is a bit reductive.

The problem is, its still a tiny minority with no prospect (at least that I can see) of that changing any time soon.

People fervently wishing otherwise does not change reality.

[RadioGAAGAA]

It is indeed a bit reductive.

But it's also reductive to assume that those institutional and governance issues will not haunt, absolutely haunt, this merger, if not addressed in advance.

I'll give you the case of any career county board official, up and down the country. He / she is likely to have a strong inclination towards either football or hurling, hence they are willing to freely give up their time to help administer their preferred sport. They'll accept, partly because they're Gaels, and partly because it has always been the case, that this means working with and facilitating hurling / football (whichever doesn't float their boat).

The life of this volunteer was poised to change quite heftily, up until this week. Those same logistical challenges were about to double, and his / her influence was about to halve.

More meetings, more aggravation, more stress, and all likely to be underlined with accusations of misogyny at every turn.

This merger was always going to be fraught beyond words at a county board level.

It would be reductive to think there are enough people in any county to happily split their time and interests and preferences 4 ways.

Absolutely spot on.

Put far clearer than my own attempt back on post #82.