Trans Men/Women Debate

[RedHand88]

Can someone tell me why:
1) Men who believe they are women want to use girls changing rooms?
2) The girls in the women's changing rooms do not have a right for it to be women only?
3) Men who believe they are women want to play ladies sports in which they would clearly have a distinct advantage? 

Couldn't tell you.

One thing is for sure however, the numbers in your scenarios above are infinitesimal relative to the number of middle aged white dudes who want to "discuss" it.

Exactly. Contrived, performative nonsense from people who have never, and will never meet a Trans person.

Can confirm.
I would be able to see the actual numbers in my other life and it is tiny. Completely disproportionate to the amount of anger over it. But it gets ragebaited all over social media because it gets clicks from bored middle aged people who's children have left the house and they have nothing else to fill their time with so they sit scrolling through twitter. Welcome to 2026. I wish it was the early 00s again.

[Rossfan]

Some refugees from the 1950s about here!

[J70]

Wasn't this done to death on another thread a few years back?

It's culture war bullshit. Distraction from real life issues that actually affect people. It's been going on for 15 years now. Have we actually had a case across the world yet where some rapist masquerading as a transwoman sexually assaulted any biological female in a bathroom?

Kris Kistofferson said it best in Jesus Was A Capricorn- "Everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on, whom they can feel better than, any time they choose. Someone doing something dirty decent folks can frown on. Well if you got nobody else, then help yourself to me"

[Puckoon]

An honest reflection from me is that it is definitely confusing and a strange topic full of nuances I don't need or care to consider, I don't really truck with it and causes me zero issues in my day to day life.

JK Rowling aside, I have never had the subject broached by a Woman in regular conversation - it's always some anti immigration, MAGA hat wearing white dude who probably "does their own research" on everything since Covid.

I often wonder if those who have truck with the changing room thing are just wondering why they can't just swing in and observe women changing rather than actually being concerned at impropriety.

I was a single parent for a long time before I met my daughter's stepmother. I used Women's restrooms unapologetically when Wee Puck was in nappies - each occasion because the Men's room didn't have a changing table to change her on. I usually asked a staff member to stand outside and let women know why there was a man in their restroom - if there was time for such conversation. If not, sorry, I got a nappy to change.

[befair]

Rebecca Helm, a biologist and an assistant professor at the University of North Carolina, Asheville, US writes:
Friendly neighborhood biologist here. I see a lot of people talking about biological sexes and gender right now. Lots of folks make biological sex sex seem really simple. Well, since it's so simple, let's find the biological roots, shall we? Let's talk about sex...[a thread]
If you know a bit about biology, you will probably say that biological sex is caused by chromosomes, XX, and you're female, XY, and you're male. This is "chromosomal sex" but is it "biological sex"? Well...
Turns out there is only ONE GENE on the Y chromosome that really matters to sex. It's called the SRY gene. During human embryonic development, the SRY protein turns on male-associated genes. Having an SRY gene makes you "genetically male". But is this "biological sex"?
Sometimes, that SRY gene pops off the Y chromosome and over to an X chromosome. Surprise! So now you've got an X with an SRY and a Y without an SRY. What does this mean?
A Y with no SRY means physically you're female, chromosomally you're male (XY), and genetically you're female (no SRY). An X with an SRY means you're physically male, chromsomally female (XX), and genetically male (SRY). But biological sex is simple! There must be another answer...
Sex-related genes ultimately turn on hormones in specific areas on the body and reception of those hormones by cells throughout the body. Is this the root of "biological sex"??
"Hormonal male" means you produce 'normal' levels of male-associated hormones. Except some percentage of females will have higher levels of 'male' hormones than some percentage of males. Ditto ditto 'female' hormones. And...
...if you're developing, your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex. Leading you to be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally non-binary, and physically non-binary. Well, except cells have something to say about this...
Maybe cells are the answer to "biological sex"?? Right?? Cells have receptors that "hear" the signal from sex hormones. But sometimes, those receptors don't work. Like a mobile phone that's on "do not disturb'. Call and cell, they will not answer.
What does this all mean?
It means you may be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female.
Try out some combinations for yourself. Notice how confusing it gets? Can you point to what the absolute cause of biological sex is? Is it fair to judge people by it?
Of course, you could try appealing to the numbers. "Most people are either male or female" you say. Except that as a biologist professor, I will tell you...
The reason I don't have my students look at their own chromosome in class is because people could learn that their chromosomal sex doesn't match their physical sex, and learning that in the middle of a 10-point assignment is JUST NOT THE TIME.
Biological sex is complicated. Before you discriminate against someone on the basis of "biological sex" & identity, ask yourself: have you seen YOUR chromosomes? Do you know the genes of the people you love? The hormones of the people you work with? The state of their cells?
Since the answer will obviously be no, please be kind, respect people's right to tell you who they are, and remember that you don't have all the answers. Again: biology is complicated. Kindness and respect don't have to be.
Note: Biological classifications exist. XX, XY, XXY XXYY, and all manner of variation, which is why sex isn't classified as binary. You can't have a binary classification system with more than two configurations even if two of those configurations are more common than others.
Biology is a shitshow. Be kind to people.

[J70]

Yep, much of nature can be messy, despite our attempts and our need to neatly pigeon hole everything so that we can make sense of it.

I'm just thankful that, so far my teen and my tween seem pretty "normal" when it comes to gender, so that they don't have to face the world of bigotry and oppression that awaits transgender people in much of the world.

[seafoid]

The number of people with male and female characteristics is minuscule

Trans is about men who have a fetish for feeling like a woman
 
And then gay men who feel feminine.

Some of the activists are very aggressive. And they sell this vulnerable community shtick.

In prisons men claim trans status to move to the female wing where
conditions are far more comfortable.They target women
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NfHRtjPSBi4


This also happened in Limerick

www.paddyspodcast.ie/episodes-3/

The most vulnerable women are targeted
 

[Orior]

Okay, the numbers are miniscule but... if hear of a man scratching his bollocks in front of my 8 year old granddaughter in a ladies changing room then I will not be responsible for my actions.

And to be clear, I dont care what trans people do outside of the changing rooms. To each their own.

[dec]

So who wants this person in a changing room with their daughter or granddaughter?

[weareros]

Biggest danger to women/girls are straight men. The most horrific stories of sexual abuse are usually a father, uncle or family friend. In the past when a young woman got pregnant from the family rape, they were sent to a home or laundary (as if they were the culprits), or they escaped Ireland to get an abortion. Most of the horrific murders of women are also by straight males - often a partner. In particular, there's nothing more dangerous to a woman than a straight man who can't accept rejection.

Trans women on the other hand are a vulnerable minority, reviled by many, with few to turn to - while people make up all kinds of scenarios of them hurting a straight woman on a GAA pitch.

[Orior]

Biggest danger to women/girls are straight men. The most horrific stories of sexual abuse are usually a father, uncle or family friend. In the past when a young woman got pregnant from the family rape, they were sent to a home or laundary (as if they were the culprits), or they escaped Ireland to get an abortion. Most of the horrific murders of women are also by straight males - often a partner. In particular, there's nothing more dangerous to a woman than a straight man who can't accept rejection.

Trans women on the other hand are a vulnerable minority, reviled by many, with few to turn to - while people make up all kinds of scenarios of them hurting a straight woman on a GAA pitch.

I agree with all you say, and I don't want to see any group persecuted or unfairly treated.. But biological men do not have a right to be in a girls changing room. Why do women's rights not matter?

By the way, how many women who believe they are men demand that they are allowed to play rugby with men, or basketball or athletics etc?

[Milltown Row2]

So who wants this person in a changing room with their daughter or granddaughter?

I'd say if he wants to go to the ladies toilet he will, dressing up as a woman is just another method of getting in, I've been in plenty of bars where women constantly use the men's as they can't be bothered waiting. And yes, some look like him

[AustinPowers]

Nobody batted an eyelid when   Robin Williams  used the ladies toilets. In fact , they all  likely laughed their heads off.

I blame  him for it all

[shawshank]

Biggest danger to women/girls are straight men. The most horrific stories of sexual abuse are usually a father, uncle or family friend. In the past when a young woman got pregnant from the family rape, they were sent to a home or laundary (as if they were the culprits), or they escaped Ireland to get an abortion. Most of the horrific murders of women are also by straight males - often a partner. In particular, there's nothing more dangerous to a woman than a straight man who can't accept rejection.

Trans women on the other hand are a vulnerable minority, reviled by many, with few to turn to - while people make up all kinds of scenarios of them hurting a straight woman on a GAA pitch.

I agree with all you say, and I don't want to see any group persecuted or unfairly treated.. But biological men do not have a right to be in a girls changing room. Why do women's rights not matter?

By the way, how many women who believe they are men demand that they are allowed to play rugby with men, or basketball or athletics etc?

The zero responses are very telling.

[Baile Brigín 2]

So who wants this person in a changing room with their daughter or granddaughter?

Can we quantify this - how many cases are there of children being attacked by trans people in changing rooms?

Serious question.