Kilkenny Football

[imtommygunn]

Kk have also won the junior too. Mayo and Kerry bad examples as there are hurling mad areas in those counties.

[marty34]

Are Mullinavat not a decent football team? Well, at junior level anyway.

[The Boy Wonder]

Before Kilkenny withdrew they were just going through the motions and getting repeated hammerings.

The majority of clubs in Kilkenny did not want to dilute their commitment to hurling by fielding football teams.
And there was only a handful of clubs where football was the predominant code.

GAA officialdom in Kilkenny obviously do not want to promote Gaelic football.
If there was a will there would be a way. There is no reason why Kilkenny could not be competitive at Division 4 level at the very least.

It is a moot point whether or not they should be obliged to give proper commitment to football.

[Armagh18]

The way the owl hurling is going at the minute they could be as well giving the big ball a go

[Armagh18]

Cavan pulled out of county hurling a few years ago.

Couldn't have! As bb2 said it's impossible, he's busy looking for the rule though, should be back soon

I jest

Some counties just don't have the commitment, numbers or the stomach to fight to improve on their lesser code.

it's a shame, as a committed dual player (back in the day) I hated, hated probably too strong, but got annoyed at players opting out of one code to stick with their more chance to win silverware code, I can understand why with regards to time effort and their own choice of favourite code, but niggled at me anyways..

Counties should have that commitment to develop the lesser code and raise the standards, but if there is no 'ruling' stating they have to then they either pay lip service to it ( like the multiple counties do for hurling) or not bother like Kilkenny do for football

Yeah its a shame the day of the dual player at county level is gone, likes of Con O'Callaghan and Connolly in Dublin fine hurlers, same with is it Rogers and McKagiue in Derry probably a few more up there as well. Jarly Og in Armagh is a decent hurler, would probably have been capable of playing at a high enough level if he'd committed to it rather than football.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Ultimately, its an amateur sport, and if there is insufficient interest it could actually compromise the ability to field a team on an annual basis.

The trade off is Kilkenny do a lot for hurling, and in many ways a lot of the heavy lifting for a sport whose strength is concentrated in two provinces. Football is sufficiently strong that all teams can at least meet in the Tailteann Cup. That isn't the case in hurling hence the tiered Championship. It might not be noticed, but last week Longford and Leitrim had a day out in Croker as the culmination of their hurling season for silverware and promotion.

In reality, the KK football issue is a non-issue. They have not competed in Leinster for years, and I think its nearly 100 years since their last won a Leinster Senior Championship football match. The county is hurling mad and has produced some truly immense hurlers. Tipperary and Limerick deserve credit for making efforts to render their footballing efforts competitive (Tipp even have recent silverware). Kilkenny football gets the level of credit and respect it deserves.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Ultimately, its an amateur sport, and if there is insufficient interest it could actually compromise the ability to field a team on an annual basis.

The trade off is Kilkenny do a lot for hurling, and in many ways a lot of the heavy lifting for a sport whose strength is concentrated in two provinces. Football is sufficiently strong that all teams can at least meet in the Tailteann Cup. That isn't the case in hurling hence the tiered Championship. It might not be noticed, but last week Longford and Leitrim had a day out in Croker as the culmination of their hurling season for silverware and promotion.

In reality, the KK football issue is a non-issue. They have not competed in Leinster for years, and I think its nearly 100 years since their last won a Leinster Senior Championship football match. The county is hurling mad and has produced some truly immense hurlers. Tipperary and Limerick deserve credit for making efforts to render their footballing efforts competitive (Tipp even have recent silverware). Kilkenny football gets the level of credit and respect it deserves.

So by this logic Sligo, Mayo, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry, Meath, Wicklow and so on can just drop hurling.

Leaving aside the unfairness, Kilkenny can put money into their hurlers other counties spend on uncompetitive teams, is part of being a county board not also as a custodian of Gaelic games?

[The Boy Wonder]

I'm in two minds on the Kilkenny football issue.

On the one hand all counties have a certain autonomy but this this give them the right to neglect one code ?
Some counties have (or had) separate County Boards for football and hurling.

Kilkenny's neighbors Wexford are a classic example of a competitive dual county.
In the early years of the GAA both counties were successful in football.
Wexford hurlers enjoyed great success in the 1950s and football took more of a back seat since.
Were Wexford to concentrate all their resources on hurling they would probably enjoy much more success.

As other posters have mentioned it is a great pity that dual players are a rarity nowadays.
Many Kilkenny hurlers down the years were very decent footballers and make the county team in a football county.

The often mentioned idea of proper Senior, Intermediate and Junior Senior Football Championships is one answer.
At the moment the Junior Championship is just a tick the box exercise for the GAA.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Ultimately, its an amateur sport, and if there is insufficient interest it could actually compromise the ability to field a team on an annual basis.

The trade off is Kilkenny do a lot for hurling, and in many ways a lot of the heavy lifting for a sport whose strength is concentrated in two provinces. Football is sufficiently strong that all teams can at least meet in the Tailteann Cup. That isn't the case in hurling hence the tiered Championship. It might not be noticed, but last week Longford and Leitrim had a day out in Croker as the culmination of their hurling season for silverware and promotion.

In reality, the KK football issue is a non-issue. They have not competed in Leinster for years, and I think its nearly 100 years since their last won a Leinster Senior Championship football match. The county is hurling mad and has produced some truly immense hurlers. Tipperary and Limerick deserve credit for making efforts to render their footballing efforts competitive (Tipp even have recent silverware). Kilkenny football gets the level of credit and respect it deserves.

So by this logic Sligo, Mayo, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry, Meath, Wicklow and so on can just drop hurling.

Leaving aside the unfairness, Kilkenny can put money into their hurlers other counties spend on uncompetitive teams, is part of being a county board not also as a custodian of Gaelic games?

Not exactly. Although your point is sound regarding the County Board. Monaghan, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Kerry, and Meath have all won at least one hurling title in recent years and Cavan have made it to the final. So there is a reason to continue fighting. Football as a sport will never need five tiers of competition, and even if such competitions were opened up below the Tailteann Cup, you'd find teams wouldnt want it, and would see it as condescending.

In many ways, hurling needs to be promoted in a way football doesn't, and lets be honest, teams like Cavan, Wicklow, or Sligo dropping their hurling team would probably make no noticeable different to the quality of their football teams.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Ultimately, its an amateur sport, and if there is insufficient interest it could actually compromise the ability to field a team on an annual basis.

The trade off is Kilkenny do a lot for hurling, and in many ways a lot of the heavy lifting for a sport whose strength is concentrated in two provinces. Football is sufficiently strong that all teams can at least meet in the Tailteann Cup. That isn't the case in hurling hence the tiered Championship. It might not be noticed, but last week Longford and Leitrim had a day out in Croker as the culmination of their hurling season for silverware and promotion.

In reality, the KK football issue is a non-issue. They have not competed in Leinster for years, and I think its nearly 100 years since their last won a Leinster Senior Championship football match. The county is hurling mad and has produced some truly immense hurlers. Tipperary and Limerick deserve credit for making efforts to render their footballing efforts competitive (Tipp even have recent silverware). Kilkenny football gets the level of credit and respect it deserves.

So by this logic Sligo, Mayo, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry, Meath, Wicklow and so on can just drop hurling.

Leaving aside the unfairness, Kilkenny can put money into their hurlers other counties spend on uncompetitive teams, is part of being a county board not also as a custodian of Gaelic games?

Not exactly. Although your point is sound regarding the County Board. Monaghan, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Kerry, and Meath have all won at least one hurling title in recent years and Cavan have made it to the final. So there is a reason to continue fighting. Football as a sport will never need five tiers of competition, and even if such competitions were opened up below the Tailteann Cup, you'd find teams wouldnt want it, and would see it as condescending.

In many ways, hurling needs to be promoted in a way football doesn't, and lets be honest, teams like Cavan, Wicklow, or Sligo dropping their hurling team would probably make no noticeable different to the quality of their football teams.

And maybe Kilkenny would be competitive at some level in football. We will never know.

My point is that if one county can bin the code they see as hassle and take that couple of hundred grand and spend it on the code they like, why can't every county take that approach?

Tough shit if you are good at it, your county board couldn't be arsed fielding a team.

[imtommygunn]

They can though. What makes you say they can't?

[JollyGreenGiant]

Ultimately, its an amateur sport, and if there is insufficient interest it could actually compromise the ability to field a team on an annual basis.

The trade off is Kilkenny do a lot for hurling, and in many ways a lot of the heavy lifting for a sport whose strength is concentrated in two provinces. Football is sufficiently strong that all teams can at least meet in the Tailteann Cup. That isn't the case in hurling hence the tiered Championship. It might not be noticed, but last week Longford and Leitrim had a day out in Croker as the culmination of their hurling season for silverware and promotion.

In reality, the KK football issue is a non-issue. They have not competed in Leinster for years, and I think its nearly 100 years since their last won a Leinster Senior Championship football match. The county is hurling mad and has produced some truly immense hurlers. Tipperary and Limerick deserve credit for making efforts to render their footballing efforts competitive (Tipp even have recent silverware). Kilkenny football gets the level of credit and respect it deserves.

So by this logic Sligo, Mayo, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry, Meath, Wicklow and so on can just drop hurling.

Leaving aside the unfairness, Kilkenny can put money into their hurlers other counties spend on uncompetitive teams, is part of being a county board not also as a custodian of Gaelic games?

Not exactly. Although your point is sound regarding the County Board. Monaghan, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Kerry, and Meath have all won at least one hurling title in recent years and Cavan have made it to the final. So there is a reason to continue fighting. Football as a sport will never need five tiers of competition, and even if such competitions were opened up below the Tailteann Cup, you'd find teams wouldnt want it, and would see it as condescending.

In many ways, hurling needs to be promoted in a way football doesn't, and lets be honest, teams like Cavan, Wicklow, or Sligo dropping their hurling team would probably make no noticeable different to the quality of their football teams.

And maybe Kilkenny would be competitive at some level in football. We will never know.

My point is that if one county can bin the code they see as hassle and take that couple of hundred grand and spend it on the code they like, why can't every county take that approach?

Tough shit if you are good at it, your county board couldn't be arsed fielding a team.

The reality is though, they are fielding a team (in the Junior Championship). It is just at a level of irrelevance (and lack of visibility) that means people believe there is no team. In the 2007 Tommy Murphy Cup there was an incident where they scored 1 goal in a game against Antrim. One goal and nothing else. Other games where they scored a couple of points or went practically scoreless.

The claim that SOME other counties treat hurling in the way KK treat football is dubious at very best. Kilkenny are worse at football than any other county is at hurling. There may have been a time that was not true, but its is no longer the case. It is a disgrace. But KK do, at the same time, a lot of heavy lifting for hurling. The culture there is extraordinary, and it is a total focus on a sport that they have produced greats from. This is against counties whose hurling is poor, but their football ain't great either (duel counties who are poor at both).

[fullback2023]

Ultimately, its an amateur sport, and if there is insufficient interest it could actually compromise the ability to field a team on an annual basis.

The trade off is Kilkenny do a lot for hurling, and in many ways a lot of the heavy lifting for a sport whose strength is concentrated in two provinces. Football is sufficiently strong that all teams can at least meet in the Tailteann Cup. That isn't the case in hurling hence the tiered Championship. It might not be noticed, but last week Longford and Leitrim had a day out in Croker as the culmination of their hurling season for silverware and promotion.

In reality, the KK football issue is a non-issue. They have not competed in Leinster for years, and I think its nearly 100 years since their last won a Leinster Senior Championship football match. The county is hurling mad and has produced some truly immense hurlers. Tipperary and Limerick deserve credit for making efforts to render their footballing efforts competitive (Tipp even have recent silverware). Kilkenny football gets the level of credit and respect it deserves.

So by this logic Sligo, Mayo, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry, Meath, Wicklow and so on can just drop hurling.

Leaving aside the unfairness, Kilkenny can put money into their hurlers other counties spend on uncompetitive teams, is part of being a county board not also as a custodian of Gaelic games?

Not exactly. Although your point is sound regarding the County Board. Monaghan, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Kerry, and Meath have all won at least one hurling title in recent years and Cavan have made it to the final. So there is a reason to continue fighting. Football as a sport will never need five tiers of competition, and even if such competitions were opened up below the Tailteann Cup, you'd find teams wouldnt want it, and would see it as condescending.

In many ways, hurling needs to be promoted in a way football doesn't, and lets be honest, teams like Cavan, Wicklow, or Sligo dropping their hurling team would probably make no noticeable different to the quality of their football teams.

And maybe Kilkenny would be competitive at some level in football. We will never know.

My point is that if one county can bin the code they see as hassle and take that couple of hundred grand and spend it on the code they like, why can't every county take that approach?

Tough shit if you are good at it, your county board couldn't be arsed fielding a team.

They entered the league from 2008-11, 32 games played and lost all 32 by a combined margin of 653 points. Their average score was less than 5 points a game and in the last year they failed to score at all against Leitrim and only scored 1 point against Roscommon. Unless in the last 15 years there's been some incredible improvement that's gone unnoticed by everyone, they aren't capable of competing even in Division 4.

There's 41 clubs in Kilkenny and 30 have played Football this year, another 6 have played underage so it isn't lack of numbers that's the issue, there's actually more clubs playing Football in Kilkenny than there are Hurling in the majority of other counties. The problem is that it isn't taken seriously, seems that they all just see it as a bit of fun before the proper stuff starts, unless that mentality can be changed the situation will stay the same.

The best solution would be to revive the Junior Championship properly so they at least have a proper championship that they might be able to be competitive in instead of a couple of games over the one weekend which was just a whim of Larry McCarthy's so a few lads from New York could win something in Croke Park.

There's nothing to stop any county from not fielding, other than that the hurlers (or footballers in a couple of cases) would be in absolute uproar that they didn't have a team which would cause the county board too many issues so they just pay lip service to it instead and do the bare minimum.

[The Boy Wonder]

Talented Gaelic footballers are as likely to emerge in Kilkenny as in any other county given the opportunity.
There should be enough at any time to sustain a senior team that would be competitive in Division 4.
Their neighbors Waterford are predominantly a hurling county but they do put a decent effort into Gaelic Football.

If memory serves me right there was an incident towards the end of Kilkenny's last NFL campaign where the bus driver had to be roped in to make up the fifteen. Where there is a will there is a way and equally the opposite.

[Milltown Row2]

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