Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[Interstellar]

If we had beaten Monaghan even in extra-time and were now in the Ulster Final would people still be giving us no chance against Armagh in that final? I think not. The game now against Armagh has to be redemption time for this team otherwise big changes required for next year.

[toby47]

If we had beaten Monaghan even in extra-time and were now in the Ulster Final would people still be giving us no chance against Armagh in that final? I think not. The game now against Armagh has to be redemption time for this team otherwise big changes required for next year.

What big changes would you suggest?

[Interstellar]

If we had beaten Monaghan even in extra-time and were now in the Ulster Final would people still be giving us no chance against Armagh in that final? I think not. The game now against Armagh has to be redemption time for this team otherwise big changes required for next year.

What big changes would you suggest?

Well we were supposed to have one of the best midfields and we broke that up. We had MeEvoy at fullback and we took him out. I would go back to that in the short term plus better use of subs. The new rules mean that starting 15 won't finish the game. Longer term the squad needs a reboot with newer lads getting a fair chance of playing.

[marty34]

I think the bench is an interesting subject. As I said before, if I was on bench and lads who were taken off, and were clearly wrecked, then I wouldn't be too impressed. We're into the business end of things now and clearly the management collectively don't fancy/trust them. That's an issue for me. If you name your 26 panel and you don't trust about 8 of them to throw them in when players are gassed and new energy is needed, then there's clearly an issue there.


Another thing on the bench is there's lads on the bench, and who have been on it for 6 or 7 years, who clearly haven't progressed. They get the odd cameo in league and 5 mins in championship but have not pushed on as expected. 


Everybody knows Derry's starting 15 but there's no competition for places as far as I can see and this isn't good for Derry. You need strong competition for places and some panel members seem to be happy on the bench and being on the county panel and what goes with that. Maybe I'm wrong?


But Derry need to build a competitve panel of about 20 players who push each other one and push each other for places. As I say, maybe I'm well off the mark but just looking at other counties and their competition for places.     

[ONEDerry]

The management have brought in lads who dropped out of the panel after a few weeks and at the same time left out others from last years squad. The overall depth has been left light and it has come back to bite in a Championship game. There's always going to be a group that will get limited game time but the lack of loyalty and development of players outside a small group is now showing up. They even show this by the subbing of a player they brought on. A throw back to previous years. Not things top management teams do who want to keep a tight group of men working in the same direction.

[Derry Optimist]

If Derry are to prove themselves worthy of developing into a top class team,they have to be at least  very competitive against a side  of the calibre of  Armagh, whether it is in an Ulster final(which  should have been the case only for reasons already given by many others  but all of which can be easily rectified) or in the first round of the All Ireland series which it now is.

I have no doubt that the management and players have the undoubted capacity and skill levels  to do this and if they do not beat Armagh they definitely have the innate ability and determination to beat any of the other sides in a projected losers group with the possible exception of the losers of the Kerry/Donegal game.

Why do I think that? Anyone who saw last Saturday's game in person,saw how Derry harried their opponents  and fought back with powerful determination and no little skill when things started to go against them. It was their inability to cope with the unfairness of the two pointers system which beat them. This shortcoming can be worked
on with  much better results I feel and they have three weeks to do so. If that happens, this special group of very talented players can bring themselves and us all many happier days.

[screenexile]

If Derry are to prove themselves worthy of developing into a top class team,they have to be at least  very competitive against a side  of the calibre of  Armagh, whether it is in an Ulster final(which  should have been the case only for reasons already given by many others  but all of which can be easily rectified) or in the first round of the All Ireland series which it now is.

I have no doubt that the management and players have the undoubted capacity and skill levels  to do this and if they do not beat Armagh they definitely have the innate ability and determination to beat any of the other sides in a projected losers group with the possible exception of the losers of the Kerry/Donegal game.

Why do I think that? Anyone who saw last Saturday's game in person,saw how Derry harried their opponents  and fought back with powerful determination and no little skill when things started to go against them. It was their inability to cope with the unfairness of the two pointers system which beat them. This shortcoming can be worked
on with  much better results I feel and they have three weeks to do so. If that happens, this special group of very talented players can bring themselves and us all many happier days.

I think this has to the worst post I've ever seen on the Derry GAA thread... and I've been on here for 20 years!!!

"The unfairness of the 2 pointers system"

Jesus wept 🤦

[p3427977]

If Derry are to prove themselves worthy of developing into a top class team,they have to be at least  very competitive against a side  of the calibre of  Armagh, whether it is in an Ulster final(which  should have been the case only for reasons already given by many others  but all of which can be easily rectified) or in the first round of the All Ireland series which it now is.

I have no doubt that the management and players have the undoubted capacity and skill levels  to do this and if they do not beat Armagh they definitely have the innate ability and determination to beat any of the other sides in a projected losers group with the possible exception of the losers of the Kerry/Donegal game.

Why do I think that? Anyone who saw last Saturday's game in person,saw how Derry harried their opponents  and fought back with powerful determination and no little skill when things started to go against them. It was their inability to cope with the unfairness of the two pointers system which beat them. This shortcoming can be worked
on with  much better results I feel and they have three weeks to do so. If that happens, this special group of very talented players can bring themselves and us all many happier days.

I'll have some of what you're on.

[Derry Optimist]

 To possibly pacify my good friend "Screenexiles" indignation, may I clarify that I always agreed with the introduction of the two pointer system to encourage long distance scoring from open play but I disagree with it for a free outside the arc. I think that it is too severe a penalty when the reward for a goal is still only  three points(and Derry got three of them on Saturday after great combination play by several players). We do not want our games to be decided exclusively by two pointers from frees.

[Wildweasel74]

The point of the 2pters is, it can keep a bad team in it. Under the old scoring system a team couldnt come back from that half time score without a few goals. Monaghan a poor team compared to the other division 1 teams,and Armagh will drill that home in the final. We should been clocking 10+pts on them and we just stopped. Showed alot bite in extra time but allowed Monaghan to get their tails up. McGuigan going for a pt on a 4 v 2 was a bad call and a goal would killed that game there,and then for about the 3rd time.

[screenexile]

To possibly pacify my good friend "Screenexiles" indignation, may I clarify that I always agreed with the introduction of the two pointer system to encourage long distance scoring from open play but I disagree with it for a free outside the arc. I think that it is too severe a penalty when the reward for a goal is still only  three points(and Derry got three of them on Saturday after great combination play by several players). We do not want our games to be decided exclusively by two pointers from frees.

I agree the 2 pointer shouldn't be for free kicks or sidelines but it's hard to argue it was a phenomenal way for a game to end the other night even if it did t go in our favour.

The 2 point system is not unfair it's the same for both teams. We had loads of ways of coping with it either score more ourselves, defend against theirs better or stop giving the ball away cheaply... we failed miserably on all 3 of those points!

[tbrick18]

Well that was a sickener, a game we would have won with a bit of composure. I did say earlier in the week I thought it would likely be a coin toss, but hoped we'd sneak it by 3. At half time and 10 up I was still thinking we weren't home and dry, but with about 20 to go and we went 10 up again I started to think we were going to be able to hold on.
Credit to monaghan, their tweak of tactics worked for them and they just went for 2 pointers every half chance. we were still solid at the back so they were forced to go for twos, and I'd say on another day they miss half of those and we still win. Beggan is so good. And that sideline to draw was exceptional, though when I saw the replay I thought ethan should have had a free out.

I thought we actually played well in general, but some individual mistakes cost us.
Shane scored a bagful, but I think he slowed down our attack time and again. he'd win a ball, man coming off his shoulder and rather than lay it off he'd carry it out to the arc for a slowed down easy pass. Murray seemed frustrated at that.
Murray was always a threat, but missed a few he should have scored.
Nial L was by far our best player, has been all year. Works so hard and can take a score.
Someone said our kickouts were excellent, I thought they were just ok. Too slow and cost us 1-2 from mistakes. WmHe did make an excellent save.
Glass and Rogers were below their normal level unfortunately, but I thought our half back line were very strong. Paul cassidy was disappointing without doing much wrong, just didn't impose himself on the game.
And I wouldn't blame Baker for the free at the end, he had a solid game and for me its a 50-50 free. The real problem was we didn't stop the ball at the other end of the field with 30 seconds to go. Again composure. We are still a bit fragile in terms of confidence after last year I think.

Im surprised we didn't use the bench better. Left it too late, a sub or two at 50 mins might have stopped the momentum shift. Tactically we were very well set up for the start, but the effectiveness wore off as monaghan adapted, and we didn't seem to change our approach to counter that.

Horrible way to lose a game.
Confirms my dislike of 2 pointers, dont think they bring anything to a game other than to devalue a goal. It makes 2 point kickers more important than full backs, or full forwards, devaluing those positions. Under old rules, all player positions were of equal importance and that seems to have changed. Who says goals wins games....not any more.

I hope monaghan win ulster now, but they'll be up against it.

we now have time to regroup, prep for armagh as underdogs and work on defending the 2 pointers as well as the goals. I wouldn't be confident of winning, but I also wouldn't be surprised if we did.

[Interstellar]

https://www.gaa.ie/article/teams-that-kick-most-two-pointers-likely-to-lead-the-way-in-football-championship

Derry are also allowed to kick 2 pointers as well as the opposition but don't seem to want to. Having said that they are average when it comes to numbers of 2 pointers scored in the season. We don't seem to have a long range free taker. Mcguigan misses too many.

[jb77]

What do we make of Rory Gallaghers scathing review of things

[p3427977]

What do we make of Rory Gallaghers scathing review of things

I think he's enjoying it.