RG at arms length

[Armagh18]

Severity of the crimes maybe?

Plus Gallagher is a lot more high profile than your man from Antrim

Any rules in the GAA defining the severity of crimes? If so, no issue - but there are not as far as I know.
The hysteria around RG may or may not be justified, but in terms of how it was handled by the GAA was a shambles and in particular Burns getting involved in subsequent issues was just him positioning himself in line with popular online outrage at that time.
The whole thing is on it's head - someone with allegations of criminal acts against them being excluded from the organisation vs someone with proven criminal acts are being treated differently.

No issue if someone is suspended pending outcomes of investigations - that would make total sense. Also no issues with expulsion from the GAA for crimes like this if proven, but anything other than that is just subjective and based on personal opinions of a few.

Of course not, just suggesting possible reasons why this one isn't being talked about as much.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Just thinking about this topic when I heard the news yesterday - I assume Kavan Keenan isn't going to play for Antrim again?

I was wrong. Obviously hit and runs must not be a big enough deal to cause any kickback.

you make a very important on this matter nrico. The clammer for RG to get pushed from his role with Derry, the subsequent interference by the President in the matter. The amount of negative posts on here and other platforms covering this was huge. For  a man not found guilty of domestic abuse, in fact it never got near the doors of a court. Yet here we have a player who was involved in an alleged crime that has got to court. Has it generated 100th of on line interest or newspaper courage?  Not remotely, selective outrage by many many in the gaa and further afield people

Is there not a safeguarding issue? A coach allegedly battering his wife over a sustained period is a bigger risk than a player doing something stupid on a once off basis.

I agree Burns, yet again, fucked this up. But there is a soft power argument. Is the GAA as an organisation entitled to Blackwall a wife beater? Should a bully of that nature be let near kids? Do we need a conviction? Where does this stop?

[tbrick18]

Just thinking about this topic when I heard the news yesterday - I assume Kavan Keenan isn't going to play for Antrim again?

I was wrong. Obviously hit and runs must not be a big enough deal to cause any kickback.

you make a very important on this matter nrico. The clammer for RG to get pushed from his role with Derry, the subsequent interference by the President in the matter. The amount of negative posts on here and other platforms covering this was huge. For  a man not found guilty of domestic abuse, in fact it never got near the doors of a court. Yet here we have a player who was involved in an alleged crime that has got to court. Has it generated 100th of on line interest or newspaper courage?  Not remotely, selective outrage by many many in the gaa and further afield people

Is there not a safeguarding issue? A coach allegedly battering his wife over a sustained period is a bigger risk than a player doing something stupid on a once off basis.

I agree Burns, yet again, fucked this up. But there is a soft power argument. Is the GAA as an organisation entitled to Blackwall a wife beater? Should a bully of that nature be let near kids? Do we need a conviction? Where does this stop?

That should be "alleged" wife beater.
No-one in the public domain or on any internet forum knows what happened - all we know is that he was never charged with anything or taken to court.
Whereas there are cases out there where people have been charged with crimes, and indeed found guilty - but nowhere near the same uproar.

If the GAA are going to make a stance on anything, it needs to be within the rules of its own organisation and not based on internet rage.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Just thinking about this topic when I heard the news yesterday - I assume Kavan Keenan isn't going to play for Antrim again?

I was wrong. Obviously hit and runs must not be a big enough deal to cause any kickback.

you make a very important on this matter nrico. The clammer for RG to get pushed from his role with Derry, the subsequent interference by the President in the matter. The amount of negative posts on here and other platforms covering this was huge. For  a man not found guilty of domestic abuse, in fact it never got near the doors of a court. Yet here we have a player who was involved in an alleged crime that has got to court. Has it generated 100th of on line interest or newspaper courage?  Not remotely, selective outrage by many many in the gaa and further afield people

Is there not a safeguarding issue? A coach allegedly battering his wife over a sustained period is a bigger risk than a player doing something stupid on a once off basis.

I agree Burns, yet again, fucked this up. But there is a soft power argument. Is the GAA as an organisation entitled to Blackwall a wife beater? Should a bully of that nature be let near kids? Do we need a conviction? Where does this stop?

That should be "alleged" wife beater.
No-one in the public domain or on any internet forum knows what happened - all we know is that he was never charged with anything or taken to court.
Whereas there are cases out there where people have been charged with crimes, and indeed found guilty - but nowhere near the same uproar.

If the GAA are going to make a stance on anything, it needs to be within the rules of its own organisation and not based on internet rage.

I'm talking in general.

If someone had a laptop of child porn or a car load of heroin but they got off on a technicality, should the GAA act?

What are these rules?

Again, you are comparing a player doing something stupid once to a manager allegedly abusing his wife over years. The uproar will not be the same, but Connolly and Hayes got plenty of it.

[tbrick18]

Just thinking about this topic when I heard the news yesterday - I assume Kavan Keenan isn't going to play for Antrim again?

I was wrong. Obviously hit and runs must not be a big enough deal to cause any kickback.

you make a very important on this matter nrico. The clammer for RG to get pushed from his role with Derry, the subsequent interference by the President in the matter. The amount of negative posts on here and other platforms covering this was huge. For  a man not found guilty of domestic abuse, in fact it never got near the doors of a court. Yet here we have a player who was involved in an alleged crime that has got to court. Has it generated 100th of on line interest or newspaper courage?  Not remotely, selective outrage by many many in the gaa and further afield people

Is there not a safeguarding issue? A coach allegedly battering his wife over a sustained period is a bigger risk than a player doing something stupid on a once off basis.

I agree Burns, yet again, fucked this up. But there is a soft power argument. Is the GAA as an organisation entitled to Blackwall a wife beater? Should a bully of that nature be let near kids? Do we need a conviction? Where does this stop?

That should be "alleged" wife beater.
No-one in the public domain or on any internet forum knows what happened - all we know is that he was never charged with anything or taken to court.
Whereas there are cases out there where people have been charged with crimes, and indeed found guilty - but nowhere near the same uproar.

If the GAA are going to make a stance on anything, it needs to be within the rules of its own organisation and not based on internet rage.

I'm talking in general.

If someone had a laptop of child porn or a car load of heroin but they got off on a technicality, should the GAA act?

What are these rules?

Again, you are comparing a player doing something stupid once to a manager allegedly abusing his wife over years. The uproar will not be the same, but Connolly and Hayes got plenty of it.

That's my point - there are no rules and actions taken by Burns were shooting from the hip.
Absolutely agree action should be taken in safeguarding issues - but as it stands it looks like its a subjective view that is triggering action or not.
IF the GAA are going to go down this line, they need to define rules or processes and work within those confines.

The comparison I was making is that someone who was accused of a crime but not charged or taken to court was treated more severely than someone who was accused and found guilty of crime, so factually a criminal.
That doesn't sit well with me.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Just thinking about this topic when I heard the news yesterday - I assume Kavan Keenan isn't going to play for Antrim again?

I was wrong. Obviously hit and runs must not be a big enough deal to cause any kickback.

you make a very important on this matter nrico. The clammer for RG to get pushed from his role with Derry, the subsequent interference by the President in the matter. The amount of negative posts on here and other platforms covering this was huge. For  a man not found guilty of domestic abuse, in fact it never got near the doors of a court. Yet here we have a player who was involved in an alleged crime that has got to court. Has it generated 100th of on line interest or newspaper courage?  Not remotely, selective outrage by many many in the gaa and further afield people

Is there not a safeguarding issue? A coach allegedly battering his wife over a sustained period is a bigger risk than a player doing something stupid on a once off basis.

I agree Burns, yet again, fucked this up. But there is a soft power argument. Is the GAA as an organisation entitled to Blackwall a wife beater? Should a bully of that nature be let near kids? Do we need a conviction? Where does this stop?

That should be "alleged" wife beater.
No-one in the public domain or on any internet forum knows what happened - all we know is that he was never charged with anything or taken to court.
Whereas there are cases out there where people have been charged with crimes, and indeed found guilty - but nowhere near the same uproar.

If the GAA are going to make a stance on anything, it needs to be within the rules of its own organisation and not based on internet rage.

I'm talking in general.

If someone had a laptop of child porn or a car load of heroin but they got off on a technicality, should the GAA act?

What are these rules?

Again, you are comparing a player doing something stupid once to a manager allegedly abusing his wife over years. The uproar will not be the same, but Connolly and Hayes got plenty of it.

That's my point - there are no rules and actions taken by Burns were shooting from the hip.
Absolutely agree action should be taken in safeguarding issues - but as it stands it looks like its a subjective view that is triggering action or not.
IF the GAA are going to go down this line, they need to define rules or processes and work within those confines.

The comparison I was making is that someone who was accused of a crime but not charged or taken to court was treated more severely than someone who was accused and found guilty of crime, so factually a criminal.
That doesn't sit well with me.

Managers are held to a higher standard. The alleged crime was worse. That's life.

[imtommygunn]

The crime was drunk driving, running over a pedestrian who has now life changing injuries , leaving the scene of the crime and then covering it up by the father pretending to be driving. I think it's a lot more serious than you are realising...

[Baile Brigín 2]

The crime was drunk driving, running over a pedestrian who has now life changing injuries , leaving the scene of the crime and then covering it up by the father pretending to be driving. I think it's a lot more serious than you are realising...

I'm not disputing that.

But a manager with (alleged) anger/bullying issues is a safeguarding problem, a player being a galoot isn't.

[RedHand88]

The crime was drunk driving, running over a pedestrian who has now life changing injuries , leaving the scene of the crime and then covering it up by the father pretending to be driving. I think it's a lot more serious than you are realising...

I'm not disputing that.

But a manager with (alleged) anger/bullying issues is a safeguarding problem, a player being a galoot isn't.

"Being a galoot"


Jaysus.

[imtommygunn]

Ignoring the galoot thing - was it really safeguarding was the issue here?

[tbrick18]

The crime was drunk driving, running over a pedestrian who has now life changing injuries , leaving the scene of the crime and then covering it up by the father pretending to be driving. I think it's a lot more serious than you are realising...

I'm not disputing that.

But a manager with (alleged) anger/bullying issues is a safeguarding problem, a player being a galoot isn't.

So to use your rationale, if I was to accuse you of having bullying/anger issues but no resulting action is taken by the authorities after they investigate, then it's right and proper that the GAA oust you as it is a safeguarding problem? All because I accuse you?

I just fundamentally disagree that an allegation is more serious than a guilty verdict.

[Baile Brigín 2]

The crime was drunk driving, running over a pedestrian who has now life changing injuries , leaving the scene of the crime and then covering it up by the father pretending to be driving. I think it's a lot more serious than you are realising...

I'm not disputing that.

But a manager with (alleged) anger/bullying issues is a safeguarding problem, a player being a galoot isn't.

So to use your rationale, if I was to accuse you of having bullying/anger issues but no resulting action is taken by the authorities after they investigate, then it's right and proper that the GAA oust you as it is a safeguarding problem? All because I accuse you?

I just fundamentally disagree that an allegation is more serious than a guilty verdict.

In the south the law is I should be suspended while the authorities investigate.

The law also says the GAA can't just ignore the accusations.

Would he pass vetting?

[Wildweasel74]

Of course he pass vetting, u not been vetted before? Was Hayes susoended waiting on his conviction, Nugent was still playing club fball awaiting his court case.

[tiempo]

Game Changer initiative in tatters following Jarlath's solo run

GPA image rights deal confirmed as a sham payment following the Antrim player mess

The Limerick player case also highlights that so long as you're a top tier player you can do what tf you like

As for the top brass, as vindictive and greedy as the next man

The GAA needs to get off the moral high ground with half this shite, they aren't the social conscious and moral compass of the plain people of Ireland as they like to make out

[Baile Brigín 2]

Of course he pass vetting, u not been vetted before? Was Hayes susoended waiting on his conviction, Nugent was still playing club fball awaiting his court case.

Players don't need to be vetted...