Man Utd Thread:

[Blowitupref]

I actually dont think Rashford was a shite trainer. I think he was mentally beaten by the club whether that be through expectation, pressure, criticism or loss of faith. He mentally shut down. No mention of him being a bad trainer at Villa, Barca or England.

If he turned up or was on time he was apparently a decent trainer but I believe he had issues with England and this was one incident with Barcelona

Marcus Rashford was left out of Barcelona's starting line-up to face Getafe on Sunday night after arriving late to training on the morning of the game.

Rashford, 27, had been looking to continue his good form after scoring twice in Barcelona's 2-1 Champions League victory at Newcastle United.

But his lack of punctuality — which sources with knowledge of the situation, speaking on the condition of anonymity, confirmed to The Athletic — saw head coach Hansi Flick continue his policy of not selecting players to start a match if they have been late to training or a meeting

[Look-Up!]

Rashford is yesterday's man. Very talented but a million miles off the mentality needed to be a top top player. If he had that he still wouldn't be thought of as young. He's had 10 PL seasons. 10. Just twice he got well into the double figures for scoring and got a stupid contract on the back of one of those, with 2 and a half years still remaining. He has been modest at best with the 2 new clubs since. The only reason to consider him playing again is because there is no way they can get some other club stupid enough to offload his contract. And even at that they'd be better off just pay him up and be shot of him. Last thing they need is someone on that size of contract with that attitude bringing down squad morale.

[lurganblue]

Fletcher should be sacked already for saying that he doesn't make any major decisions without running them past Fergie

[Armagh18]

Rashford is yesterday's man. Very talented but a million miles off the mentality needed to be a top top player. If he had that he still wouldn't be thought of as young. He's had 10 PL seasons. 10. Just twice he got well into the double figures for scoring and got a stupid contract on the back of one of those, with 2 and a half years still remaining. He has been modest at best with the 2 new clubs since. The only reason to consider him playing again is because there is no way they can get some other club stupid enough to offload his contract. And even at that they'd be better off just pay him up and be shot of him. Last thing they need is someone on that size of contract with that attitude bringing down squad morale.

100%. One thing Amorim did well was get rid of plenty of cocky huers with bad attitudes.

The squad now might be lacking quality, but the players seemed to be at least putting an effort in. That's the bare minimum and build from there. That Rashford tube would be bad for the dressing room.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Stubbornness can also be equated to self belief, an essential trait when trying to achieve what most see as the impossible.

I seem to remember criticism for ETH from some quarters for having no discernable style and abandoning his Ajax principles after quickly realising the enormity of the task at Utd. I'm in no way defending him because his transfers were terrible but this "flapping" was equated to indecisiveness and weakness on his part.

You certainly couldn't accuse Amorim of abandoning his principles. In fact his major criticism is for not doing what ETH did and adjust his style. Although a bit contradictory I think it's fair to accuse him of being too unbending but I will say this in his defence. He made no secret of his style when he came to Utd. No one was under any false impressions. The club head hunted him and even pressured him into coming half a season too early no less. And I'm sure there were many many lofty promises made to him of being given the time and backing to achieve his vision. But the club have obviously since baulked at those promises and he was only recently told they will be reneging. So although he was very unprofessional in how he handled it you can understand his anger and frustration.

I don't know where that leaves the club though or what route they'll go next. But what the hell was the point of hiring Amorim and all the grandiose pronouncements of philosophy and new Utd if they just flap after one window? And what will the next man be thinking upon listening to the latest raft of promises and visions?

Hit the nail on the head there.

ETH was slated for changing his system at United and Amorim was slated for being to rigid in his system.

No matter what you do at united the media and former players and pundits will pile the pressure on you.

The club will continue is this cycle unless they come up with a long term vision and stick through it... Most rebuilds you need to get worse before you get better and ignore the outside noise.

Yep. An awful lot of outside noise. And that's all it mostly is with their big ideas, noise.

Amorim was his own man and a step in the right direction. Didn't take any crap, didn't hark back, called out laziness and introduced a bit of speed into attack. Limited and didn't work out for him for many reasons but the club and rebuild goes on. A good manager with a bit of backing and a few tweaks would have a great project on his hands. CL football very achievable. Winning big things a different matter and will need time because resale value of players is such a problem area for the club. And the board do seem very flappy and rudderless.

Wasn't a major blowout him criticising United players that the club wanted out and those on loan. Anthony wasn't physical enough for England, Rashford a shite trainer, every acadamy player pampered etc. It achieved nothing other than scare off bidders.

What's scaring off bidders is the size of their current contracts. Hardly his fault. Obviously you can overdo criticism but there must also be standards and you don't walk on eggshells round bad behaviour.

Dumping on players who were away on loan was foolish. He wants them off the wage bill, so criticism was unnecessary and unprofessional. It was a factor in the sacking.

[Baile Brigín 2]

You could throw big Zlatan in there. Diallo is a good player.

Cunha and Mbeumo will most likely prove good signings

Good being the operative word. 100 odd signings and we are saying 5 'weren't terrible'.

The whole club needs tearing down before success is almost possible.

Could probably go through them all and find a few more that were alright, but I take your point.

Club is rotten from the top down.

I kinda have and there are no signings you would say were unambiguous successes. That is statistically difficult.

Far too many blazers and the club culture won't allow a manager to have the power they require to get a grip. I'm not suggesting Ferguson levels of power, but they need to pick someone and hand him some blank cheques and give him control.

Would Klopp take it?

Klopp take over Man United? Is that a serious question?

Why not? How is it different to bringing in Mourinho?

Um, Mourinho was not one of the all time top three managers of their biggest rivals.

Plus, leaving aside his status as a Liverpool legend, on a personal level, would Klopp really want to start a rebuilding job somewhat similar in scale to the one he did at Liverpool? He quit Liverpool early because he was completely burnt out.

How many managers out there are capable of putting manners on an entire club? If you want to pass on him because he managed a rival, good luck. Mourinho was manager of a major rival to United back when they were competitive. It's the same thing.

[Look-Up!]

Stubbornness can also be equated to self belief, an essential trait when trying to achieve what most see as the impossible.

I seem to remember criticism for ETH from some quarters for having no discernable style and abandoning his Ajax principles after quickly realising the enormity of the task at Utd. I'm in no way defending him because his transfers were terrible but this "flapping" was equated to indecisiveness and weakness on his part.

You certainly couldn't accuse Amorim of abandoning his principles. In fact his major criticism is for not doing what ETH did and adjust his style. Although a bit contradictory I think it's fair to accuse him of being too unbending but I will say this in his defence. He made no secret of his style when he came to Utd. No one was under any false impressions. The club head hunted him and even pressured him into coming half a season too early no less. And I'm sure there were many many lofty promises made to him of being given the time and backing to achieve his vision. But the club have obviously since baulked at those promises and he was only recently told they will be reneging. So although he was very unprofessional in how he handled it you can understand his anger and frustration.

I don't know where that leaves the club though or what route they'll go next. But what the hell was the point of hiring Amorim and all the grandiose pronouncements of philosophy and new Utd if they just flap after one window? And what will the next man be thinking upon listening to the latest raft of promises and visions?

Hit the nail on the head there.

ETH was slated for changing his system at United and Amorim was slated for being to rigid in his system.

No matter what you do at united the media and former players and pundits will pile the pressure on you.

The club will continue is this cycle unless they come up with a long term vision and stick through it... Most rebuilds you need to get worse before you get better and ignore the outside noise.

Yep. An awful lot of outside noise. And that's all it mostly is with their big ideas, noise.

Amorim was his own man and a step in the right direction. Didn't take any crap, didn't hark back, called out laziness and introduced a bit of speed into attack. Limited and didn't work out for him for many reasons but the club and rebuild goes on. A good manager with a bit of backing and a few tweaks would have a great project on his hands. CL football very achievable. Winning big things a different matter and will need time because resale value of players is such a problem area for the club. And the board do seem very flappy and rudderless.

Wasn't a major blowout him criticising United players that the club wanted out and those on loan. Anthony wasn't physical enough for England, Rashford a shite trainer, every acadamy player pampered etc. It achieved nothing other than scare off bidders.

What's scaring off bidders is the size of their current contracts. Hardly his fault. Obviously you can overdo criticism but there must also be standards and you don't walk on eggshells round bad behaviour.

Dumping on players who were away on loan was foolish. He wants them off the wage bill, so criticism was unnecessary and unprofessional. It was a factor in the sacking.

Whether it had or hadn't it would have absolutely no bearing on another club taking them on. If a player is value they will get no end of suitors.

[Armagh18]

You could throw big Zlatan in there. Diallo is a good player.

Cunha and Mbeumo will most likely prove good signings

Good being the operative word. 100 odd signings and we are saying 5 'weren't terrible'.

The whole club needs tearing down before success is almost possible.

Could probably go through them all and find a few more that were alright, but I take your point.

Club is rotten from the top down.

I kinda have and there are no signings you would say were unambiguous successes. That is statistically difficult.

Far too many blazers and the club culture won't allow a manager to have the power they require to get a grip. I'm not suggesting Ferguson levels of power, but they need to pick someone and hand him some blank cheques and give him control.

Would Klopp take it?

Klopp take over Man United? Is that a serious question?

Why not? How is it different to bringing in Mourinho?

Um, Mourinho was not one of the all time top three managers of their biggest rivals.

Plus, leaving aside his status as a Liverpool legend, on a personal level, would Klopp really want to start a rebuilding job somewhat similar in scale to the one he did at Liverpool? He quit Liverpool early because he was completely burnt out.

How many managers out there are capable of putting manners on an entire club? If you want to pass on him because he managed a rival, good luck. Mourinho was manager of a major rival to United back when they were competitive. It's the same thing.

0 chance he'd do it as much as it would be hilarious to annoy the scousers.

[From the Bunker]

Utd paid Ole Gunnar 10 million 5 years ago to leave and now they are hiring him again.

This is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Stubbornness can also be equated to self belief, an essential trait when trying to achieve what most see as the impossible.

I seem to remember criticism for ETH from some quarters for having no discernable style and abandoning his Ajax principles after quickly realising the enormity of the task at Utd. I'm in no way defending him because his transfers were terrible but this "flapping" was equated to indecisiveness and weakness on his part.

You certainly couldn't accuse Amorim of abandoning his principles. In fact his major criticism is for not doing what ETH did and adjust his style. Although a bit contradictory I think it's fair to accuse him of being too unbending but I will say this in his defence. He made no secret of his style when he came to Utd. No one was under any false impressions. The club head hunted him and even pressured him into coming half a season too early no less. And I'm sure there were many many lofty promises made to him of being given the time and backing to achieve his vision. But the club have obviously since baulked at those promises and he was only recently told they will be reneging. So although he was very unprofessional in how he handled it you can understand his anger and frustration.

I don't know where that leaves the club though or what route they'll go next. But what the hell was the point of hiring Amorim and all the grandiose pronouncements of philosophy and new Utd if they just flap after one window? And what will the next man be thinking upon listening to the latest raft of promises and visions?

Hit the nail on the head there.

ETH was slated for changing his system at United and Amorim was slated for being to rigid in his system.

No matter what you do at united the media and former players and pundits will pile the pressure on you.

The club will continue is this cycle unless they come up with a long term vision and stick through it... Most rebuilds you need to get worse before you get better and ignore the outside noise.

Yep. An awful lot of outside noise. And that's all it mostly is with their big ideas, noise.

Amorim was his own man and a step in the right direction. Didn't take any crap, didn't hark back, called out laziness and introduced a bit of speed into attack. Limited and didn't work out for him for many reasons but the club and rebuild goes on. A good manager with a bit of backing and a few tweaks would have a great project on his hands. CL football very achievable. Winning big things a different matter and will need time because resale value of players is such a problem area for the club. And the board do seem very flappy and rudderless.

Wasn't a major blowout him criticising United players that the club wanted out and those on loan. Anthony wasn't physical enough for England, Rashford a shite trainer, every acadamy player pampered etc. It achieved nothing other than scare off bidders.

What's scaring off bidders is the size of their current contracts. Hardly his fault. Obviously you can overdo criticism but there must also be standards and you don't walk on eggshells round bad behaviour.

Dumping on players who were away on loan was foolish. He wants them off the wage bill, so criticism was unnecessary and unprofessional. It was a factor in the sacking.

Whether it had or hadn't it would have absolutely no bearing on another club taking them on. If a player is value they will get no end of suitors.

Disagree. Lots of press to the effect that it was considered naive, unprofessional and unnecessary to shit on Rashford and Anthony while on loan. Clubs definitely took it on board - how bad must this fella be, lets avoid, or potentially bid less.

It's not done, and it's not done for a reason.

[gawa316]

How many managers out there are capable of putting manners on an entire club? If you want to pass on him because he managed a rival, good luck. Mourinho was manager of a major rival to United back when they were competitive. It's the same thing.

It's not the same thing

[Look-Up!]

What's scaring off bidders is the size of their current contracts. Hardly his fault. Obviously you can overdo criticism but there must also be standards and you don't walk on eggshells round bad behaviour.

Dumping on players who were away on loan was foolish. He wants them off the wage bill, so criticism was unnecessary and unprofessional. It was a factor in the sacking.

Whether it had or hadn't it would have absolutely no bearing on another club taking them on. If a player is value they will get no end of suitors.

Disagree. Lots of press to the effect that it was considered naive, unprofessional and unnecessary to shit on Rashford and Anthony while on loan. Clubs definitely took it on board - how bad must this fella be, lets avoid, or potentially bid less.

It's not done, and it's not done for a reason.

Press? Lots of bluffers in the media paid to talk nonsense. They have to print something. Football is a small world. Players, coaches and managers move around all the time from club to club and country to country sharing ideas, knowledge and gossip. If you're signing a big player you'd be going to your scouts and contacts in the business and maybe someone currently at your club with inside knowledge. And if someone can genuinely offer you something you'll be desperate to sign.

Rashford currently in a massive shop window of a club. If no one wants to take a punt on him it will be down to what he offers for the sum he commands, not what Amorim said about him over a year ago.

[Look-Up!]

How many managers out there are capable of putting manners on an entire club? If you want to pass on him because he managed a rival, good luck. Mourinho was manager of a major rival to United back when they were competitive. It's the same thing.

It's not the same thing

Absolutely not the same thing. Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea, twice, and a free agent. Would never have been on Chelsea's radar again so all's fair.

Klopp left Liverpool a legend to get away from the game. If he were to declare an interest in managing again Liverpool would be all over him. Going to Man Utd would be a shitstorm of nuclear proportions.

[Baile Brigín 2]

What's scaring off bidders is the size of their current contracts. Hardly his fault. Obviously you can overdo criticism but there must also be standards and you don't walk on eggshells round bad behaviour.

Dumping on players who were away on loan was foolish. He wants them off the wage bill, so criticism was unnecessary and unprofessional. It was a factor in the sacking.

Whether it had or hadn't it would have absolutely no bearing on another club taking them on. If a player is value they will get no end of suitors.

Disagree. Lots of press to the effect that it was considered naive, unprofessional and unnecessary to shit on Rashford and Anthony while on loan. Clubs definitely took it on board - how bad must this fella be, lets avoid, or potentially bid less.

It's not done, and it's not done for a reason.

Press? Lots of bluffers in the media paid to talk nonsense. They have to print something. Football is a small world. Players, coaches and managers move around all the time from club to club and country to country sharing ideas, knowledge and gossip. If you're signing a big player you'd be going to your scouts and contacts in the business and maybe someone currently at your club with inside knowledge. And if someone can genuinely offer you something you'll be desperate to sign.

Rashford currently in a massive shop window of a club. If no one wants to take a punt on him it will be down to what he offers for the sum he commands, not what Amorim said about him over a year ago.

They printed his words.

The blazers are on record saying his negative comments towards players they wanted to shift damaged the clubs ability to shift them. Having a pop at Amass who is doing fine at Sheffield Wednesday was utterly bizarre.

[laoislad]

Fletcher should be sacked already for saying that he doesn't make any major decisions without running them past Fergie

Show some respect dude, he's called Sir Alex in here in this thread.