Man Utd Thread:

[JPGJOHNNYG]

You'll be telling us Jamie will be the new manager at Liverpool is the season is crap! Or worse Stevie!

They had their Souness Evans Kenny (second stint) phase and have run that dirt out of the engine

You can bet your boots Stevie is desperate for the call, even lately when Slot getting a bit of stick Stevie thought it was appropriate to say he'd help "in any department at any minute of every day" a complete goon statement that should prevent him getting near it, Rio Ferdinand esque

Back to my original point today

OGS is the Kenny Dalglish of Roy Evans'

Nevermind shocking if he gets it, shocking that he's even in the frame

If I was Ole, I'd tell  them where to go.  If I was  deemed not good enough 3 years ago , then  I'm not good enough now.

Have some dignity, and tell them to  get f**ked.

So many quality clubs rate him and have lined him up since his last stint oh wait. He is a nice guy but the reality is, this is as good as it gets for him and he knows it

[Baile Brigín 2]

You could throw big Zlatan in there. Diallo is a good player.

Cunha and Mbeumo will most likely prove good signings

Good being the operative word. 100 odd signings and we are saying 5 'weren't terrible'.

The whole club needs tearing down before success is almost possible.

Could probably go through them all and find a few more that were alright, but I take your point.

Club is rotten from the top down.

I kinda have and there are no signings you would say were unambiguous successes. That is statistically difficult.

Far too many blazers and the club culture won't allow a manager to have the power they require to get a grip. I'm not suggesting Ferguson levels of power, but they need to pick someone and hand him some blank cheques and give him control.

Would Klopp take it?

Klopp take over Man United? Is that a serious question?

Why not? How is it different to bringing in Mourinho?

[Baile Brigín 2]

Stubbornness can also be equated to self belief, an essential trait when trying to achieve what most see as the impossible.

I seem to remember criticism for ETH from some quarters for having no discernable style and abandoning his Ajax principles after quickly realising the enormity of the task at Utd. I'm in no way defending him because his transfers were terrible but this "flapping" was equated to indecisiveness and weakness on his part.

You certainly couldn't accuse Amorim of abandoning his principles. In fact his major criticism is for not doing what ETH did and adjust his style. Although a bit contradictory I think it's fair to accuse him of being too unbending but I will say this in his defence. He made no secret of his style when he came to Utd. No one was under any false impressions. The club head hunted him and even pressured him into coming half a season too early no less. And I'm sure there were many many lofty promises made to him of being given the time and backing to achieve his vision. But the club have obviously since baulked at those promises and he was only recently told they will be reneging. So although he was very unprofessional in how he handled it you can understand his anger and frustration.

I don't know where that leaves the club though or what route they'll go next. But what the hell was the point of hiring Amorim and all the grandiose pronouncements of philosophy and new Utd if they just flap after one window? And what will the next man be thinking upon listening to the latest raft of promises and visions?

Hit the nail on the head there.

ETH was slated for changing his system at United and Amorim was slated for being to rigid in his system.

No matter what you do at united the media and former players and pundits will pile the pressure on you.

The club will continue is this cycle unless they come up with a long term vision and stick through it... Most rebuilds you need to get worse before you get better and ignore the outside noise.

Yep. An awful lot of outside noise. And that's all it mostly is with their big ideas, noise.

Amorim was his own man and a step in the right direction. Didn't take any crap, didn't hark back, called out laziness and introduced a bit of speed into attack. Limited and didn't work out for him for many reasons but the club and rebuild goes on. A good manager with a bit of backing and a few tweaks would have a great project on his hands. CL football very achievable. Winning big things a different matter and will need time because resale value of players is such a problem area for the club. And the board do seem very flappy and rudderless.

Wasn't a major blowout him criticising United players that the club wanted out and those on loan. Anthony wasn't physical enough for England, Rashford a shite trainer, every acadamy player pampered etc. It achieved nothing other than scare off bidders.

[Look-Up!]

Stubbornness can also be equated to self belief, an essential trait when trying to achieve what most see as the impossible.

I seem to remember criticism for ETH from some quarters for having no discernable style and abandoning his Ajax principles after quickly realising the enormity of the task at Utd. I'm in no way defending him because his transfers were terrible but this "flapping" was equated to indecisiveness and weakness on his part.

You certainly couldn't accuse Amorim of abandoning his principles. In fact his major criticism is for not doing what ETH did and adjust his style. Although a bit contradictory I think it's fair to accuse him of being too unbending but I will say this in his defence. He made no secret of his style when he came to Utd. No one was under any false impressions. The club head hunted him and even pressured him into coming half a season too early no less. And I'm sure there were many many lofty promises made to him of being given the time and backing to achieve his vision. But the club have obviously since baulked at those promises and he was only recently told they will be reneging. So although he was very unprofessional in how he handled it you can understand his anger and frustration.

I don't know where that leaves the club though or what route they'll go next. But what the hell was the point of hiring Amorim and all the grandiose pronouncements of philosophy and new Utd if they just flap after one window? And what will the next man be thinking upon listening to the latest raft of promises and visions?

Hit the nail on the head there.

ETH was slated for changing his system at United and Amorim was slated for being to rigid in his system.

No matter what you do at united the media and former players and pundits will pile the pressure on you.

The club will continue is this cycle unless they come up with a long term vision and stick through it... Most rebuilds you need to get worse before you get better and ignore the outside noise.

Yep. An awful lot of outside noise. And that's all it mostly is with their big ideas, noise.

Amorim was his own man and a step in the right direction. Didn't take any crap, didn't hark back, called out laziness and introduced a bit of speed into attack. Limited and didn't work out for him for many reasons but the club and rebuild goes on. A good manager with a bit of backing and a few tweaks would have a great project on his hands. CL football very achievable. Winning big things a different matter and will need time because resale value of players is such a problem area for the club. And the board do seem very flappy and rudderless.

Wasn't a major blowout him criticising United players that the club wanted out and those on loan. Anthony wasn't physical enough for England, Rashford a shite trainer, every acadamy player pampered etc. It achieved nothing other than scare off bidders.

What's scaring off bidders is the size of their current contracts. Hardly his fault. Obviously you can overdo criticism but there must also be standards and you don't walk on eggshells round bad behaviour.

[Milltown Row2]

If this keeps up the Utd page will over take the Liverpool page 

[J70]

You could throw big Zlatan in there. Diallo is a good player.

Cunha and Mbeumo will most likely prove good signings

Good being the operative word. 100 odd signings and we are saying 5 'weren't terrible'.

The whole club needs tearing down before success is almost possible.

Could probably go through them all and find a few more that were alright, but I take your point.

Club is rotten from the top down.

I kinda have and there are no signings you would say were unambiguous successes. That is statistically difficult.

Far too many blazers and the club culture won't allow a manager to have the power they require to get a grip. I'm not suggesting Ferguson levels of power, but they need to pick someone and hand him some blank cheques and give him control.

Would Klopp take it?

Klopp take over Man United? Is that a serious question?

Why not? How is it different to bringing in Mourinho?

Um, Mourinho was not one of the all time top three managers of their biggest rivals.

Plus, leaving aside his status as a Liverpool legend, on a personal level, would Klopp really want to start a rebuilding job somewhat similar in scale to the one he did at Liverpool? He quit Liverpool early because he was completely burnt out.

[clonian]

He had to get some of the arseholes out so that hit on their price was worth it. There seems to be a better group there now than he took over and there's going to be few big earners off the books in the summer.

They need a couple of athletic midfielders and possibly some full backs with Shaw and Dalot hopefully heading out the door in the near future. Mazouri is the best they have and can play both sides.

[lurganblue]

I actually dont think Rashford was a shite trainer. I think he was mentally beaten by the club whether that be through expectation, pressure, criticism or loss of faith. He mentally shut down. No mention of him being a bad trainer at Villa, Barca or England.

[Look-Up!]

Was certainly very good when the new contract was on the negotiating table.

[Armagh18]

Quick look at the squad- assuming they'll go back to 4 at the back-

Goalkeeper- Lammens seems solid, could do with a semi reliable back up if he was ever injured though

Full backs- very light there, none of Shaw/Dorgu/Dalot would give you much hope on the left, Mazouri a good player on the right but maybe doesn't give enough going forward.

Centre backs- plenty of numbers but when you dig in probably could be improved- De Ligt a good player, not the quickest and slightly injury prone, Martinez a brilliant player but jury still out given his injury record, Maguire has his uses but isn't getting any younger and is better in a 3. Yoro and Heaven both super talents but are only kids really. Probably the area of least concern.

Central midfield- total shitshow, Ugarte is hopeless, Bruno not a midfielder, Casemiro well past it, Mainoo, theres talent there but will he push on? 2 if not 3 players needed there.

Attacking midfield/wingers- seem to be well stocked there, Cunha and Mbuemo very good players, Amad is a super talent and will only improve, Bruno if he stays will always produce something and Mount is a baller if he can stay fit. Would nearly be counting him as a bonus player and not rely on him at all. Zirkzee a good kid but probably not going to cut the mustard.

A striker is badly needed, even if it was only Rasmus back for competition/rotation with Sesko, even Danny Welbeck or someone to take some of the pressure off, signing an inexperienced striker for huge money obviously doesn't work.



Ideally
In
3x midfielders
1x left back (starter)
1x right back (cover)
1x striker (back up/competition)


Out
Ugarte
Casemiro
Zirkzee
Maguire
Dalot
Shaw

Realistically not going to happen and bar Zirkzee you're getting little or nothing for the sales. Ideally there'll be European football of some description next year and the squad is paper thin, so money needs spending.

[Armagh18]

I actually dont think Rashford was a shite trainer. I think he was mentally beaten by the club whether that be through expectation, pressure, criticism or loss of faith. He mentally shut down. No mention of him being a bad trainer at Villa, Barca or England.

His attitude stank from what I could see on the pitch. That stunt in Belfast was the last straw.

[lurganblue]

I actually dont think Rashford was a shite trainer. I think he was mentally beaten by the club whether that be through expectation, pressure, criticism or loss of faith. He mentally shut down. No mention of him being a bad trainer at Villa, Barca or England.

His attitude stank from what I could see on the pitch. That stunt in Belfast was the last straw.

Absolutely. He completely checkout out. That was a symptom IMO. Was never gonna get any better at Utd.

I dont think he's inherently a bad  trainer though.

[oakleaflad]

Quick look at the squad- assuming they'll go back to 4 at the back-

Goalkeeper- Lammens seems solid, could do with a semi reliable back up if he was ever injured though

Full backs- very light there, none of Shaw/Dorgu/Dalot would give you much hope on the left, Mazouri a good player on the right but maybe doesn't give enough going forward.

Centre backs- plenty of numbers but when you dig in probably could be improved- De Ligt a good player, not the quickest and slightly injury prone, Martinez a brilliant player but jury still out given his injury record, Maguire has his uses but isn't getting any younger and is better in a 3. Yoro and Heaven both super talents but are only kids really. Probably the area of least concern.

Central midfield- total shitshow, Ugarte is hopeless, Bruno not a midfielder, Casemiro well past it, Mainoo, theres talent there but will he push on? 2 if not 3 players needed there.

Attacking midfield/wingers- seem to be well stocked there, Cunha and Mbuemo very good players, Amad is a super talent and will only improve, Bruno if he stays will always produce something and Mount is a baller if he can stay fit. Would nearly be counting him as a bonus player and not rely on him at all. Zirkzee a good kid but probably not going to cut the mustard.

A striker is badly needed, even if it was only Rasmus back for competition/rotation with Sesko, even Danny Welbeck or someone to take some of the pressure off, signing an inexperienced striker for huge money obviously doesn't work.



Ideally
In
3x midfielders
1x left back (starter)
1x right back (cover)
1x striker (back up/competition)


Out
Ugarte
Casemiro
Zirkzee
Maguire
Dalot
Shaw

Realistically not going to happen and bar Zirkzee you're getting little or nothing for the sales. Ideally there'll be European football of some description next year and the squad is paper thin, so money needs spending.

Would agree with all that. Maybe a bit harsh on Shaw in pure footballing terms when he's fit, but nail on head with each position that needs strengthened.

[Armagh18]

Quick look at the squad- assuming they'll go back to 4 at the back-

Goalkeeper- Lammens seems solid, could do with a semi reliable back up if he was ever injured though

Full backs- very light there, none of Shaw/Dorgu/Dalot would give you much hope on the left, Mazouri a good player on the right but maybe doesn't give enough going forward.

Centre backs- plenty of numbers but when you dig in probably could be improved- De Ligt a good player, not the quickest and slightly injury prone, Martinez a brilliant player but jury still out given his injury record, Maguire has his uses but isn't getting any younger and is better in a 3. Yoro and Heaven both super talents but are only kids really. Probably the area of least concern.

Central midfield- total shitshow, Ugarte is hopeless, Bruno not a midfielder, Casemiro well past it, Mainoo, theres talent there but will he push on? 2 if not 3 players needed there.

Attacking midfield/wingers- seem to be well stocked there, Cunha and Mbuemo very good players, Amad is a super talent and will only improve, Bruno if he stays will always produce something and Mount is a baller if he can stay fit. Would nearly be counting him as a bonus player and not rely on him at all. Zirkzee a good kid but probably not going to cut the mustard.

A striker is badly needed, even if it was only Rasmus back for competition/rotation with Sesko, even Danny Welbeck or someone to take some of the pressure off, signing an inexperienced striker for huge money obviously doesn't work.



Ideally
In
3x midfielders
1x left back (starter)
1x right back (cover)
1x striker (back up/competition)


Out
Ugarte
Casemiro
Zirkzee
Maguire
Dalot
Shaw

Realistically not going to happen and bar Zirkzee you're getting little or nothing for the sales. Ideally there'll be European football of some description next year and the squad is paper thin, so money needs spending.

Would agree with all that. Maybe a bit harsh on Shaw in pure footballing terms when he's fit, but nail on head with each position that needs strengthened.

Not sure he has the legs to play left back anymore- similar to Maguire the 3 at the back helped him out, he'd probably start getting injured again if he was asked to get up and down the field.

A serious player ability wise though.

[Armagh18]

I actually dont think Rashford was a shite trainer. I think he was mentally beaten by the club whether that be through expectation, pressure, criticism or loss of faith. He mentally shut down. No mention of him being a bad trainer at Villa, Barca or England.

His attitude stank from what I could see on the pitch. That stunt in Belfast was the last straw.

Absolutely. He completely checkout out. That was a symptom IMO. Was never gonna get any better at Utd.

I dont think he's inherently a bad  trainer though.

Just hope Ole doesn't bring him back