Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[Dag Dog]

Why can't all the countries that are against Russia use the thing that will prevent Russia from continuing with the war and that too hit them in the pocket, will take time and they are doing it, but need to ramp it up more, but will certainly save a lot more lives if everyone else joins the war, any country that is using any exports from Russia must be sanctioned and hit by huge embargoes

Countries like China and India are happy to buy Russian oil and back the Russian war effort though. They're good at evading indirect sanctions.

I know, I did say that the other countries, if they are serious they have to hit these countries that are still trading with Russia with trade sanctions otherwise they are fueling the war. The only other alterative is to push for war against Russia and that isn't going to happen..

Question, would the war be a thing if not for Putin? So I'm asking if he wasn't in charge would Russia be going down a different path?

When any form of opposition have fallen off balconies and out of windows, I'd say the successors to Putin will all be of the same mind.

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/069843a4-7f8b-4fb8-a2f5-dc4be258c23c

European capitals are rushing to co-ordinate a response to a US-Russian peace plan to end the war in Ukraine, which officials have warned would mean Kyiv's "capitulation" to Moscow's demands. Washington is pressing Ukraine to accept a 28-point peace plan drafted by aides to US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that calls for Kyiv to cede swaths of land currently under its control. It contains further major concessions to Moscow, including banning any future Ukrainian membership in Nato

[seafoid]

The full text of Trump's 28-point Ukraine-Russia peace plan

https://www.ft.com/content/79eefaf8-2fc1-47ac-9653-24cf6a0239f5

https://www.ft.com/content/79eefaf8-2fc1-47ac-9653-24cf6a0239f5

1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed. 2. A comprehensive and comprehensive [sic] non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled. 3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and NATO will not expand further. 4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development. 5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees. 6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel. 7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future. 8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine. 9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland. 10. US guarantee: The US will receive compensation for the guarantee. If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked. If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid. 11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered. 12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to: a. The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centres, and artificial intelligence. b. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities. c. Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernisation of cities and residential areas. d. Infrastructure development. e. Extraction of minerals and natural resources. f. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts. 13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy: a. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis. b. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities. c. Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8. 14. Frozen funds will be used as follows: $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict. 15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement. 16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine. 17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty. 18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. 19. The Zaporizhzhya [sic] Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50. 20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice: a. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities. b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education. c. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited. 21. Territories: a. Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States. b. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact. c. Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions. d. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognised as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone. 22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment. 23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea. 24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues: a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an 'all for all' basis. b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children. c. A family reunification programme will be implemented. d. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict. 25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days. 26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future. 27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations. 28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/069843a4-7f8b-4fb8-a2f5-dc4be258c23c

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has warned that the country risks having to choose between losing US support or forfeiting its dignity in a harsh peace with Russia, as Washington heaps pressure on Kyiv to sign a deal drawn up with Moscow. Zelenskyy's comments, made in a television address to the nation on Friday, came the day after the US presented him with a 28-point plan that crossed several of Kyiv's long-held red lines, and as Ukraine's European allies depicted the new proposals as a "capitulation" to Moscow's demands. "Now Ukraine may find itself facing a very difficult choice — either loss of dignity, or the risk of losing a key partner," Zelenskyy said, telling Ukrainians that they were facing "one of the most difficult moments in our history".

[Bord na Mona man]

It reads like a Russia wish list. They get to consolidate the territory captured, plus some extra they haven't got. With the sanctions off they can rebuild their economy and with Ukraine's defence limited, they can launch a fresh assault in another few years.

[Look-Up!]

"Guarantees" don't really count for much either. The last guarantees they got for giving up their nuclear arms amounted to the value of a piece of dried shite. And these will likewise, be subject to the whims of a future Russian leader or US president. And with this current POS POTUS, this is purely a transactional business deal, nothing else. A chance to make money and screw a weaker opponent. And if by any chance further down the line the scales should tip the other way, then it's shredder and renegotiating time.

[Munchie]

Trump is a bigger **** than Putin.

[Look-Up!]

Putin is what he is and Russia is what it is. They were never allies of Europe. USA was and despite their many faults and crimes, they were seen as our allies and the word of a US president carried weight for us. This is a new low. The word of the US, the seal of the POTUS, means nothing. Less than nothing in fact. Pure dirt.

[Armagh18]

Putin is what he is and Russia is what it is. They were never allies of Europe. USA was and despite their many faults and crimes, they were seen as our allies and the word of a US president carried weight for us. This is a new low. The word of the US, the seal of the POTUS, means nothing. Less than nothing in fact. Pure dirt.

Absolutely.

I've zero love for the Democrat party but anyone that's still backing Trump and his klan is either simple or a total bastard.

[seafoid]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/21/britains-troubling-absence-peace-plan-kyiv-capitulation/
Britain's absence from peace plan will lead to Kyiv's capitulation, says former Nato chief
Reports from Washington and Moscow this week reveal a peace deal drafted over the head of the Ukrainian government, writes Anders Fogh Rasmussen, former Nato secretary-general and prime minister of Denmark. 
It reads less like a balanced settlement and more like a blueprint for Ukrainian defeat dressed up as peace. This comes barely a month after Donald Trump declared he believed Ukraine could win the war.
Even more troubling is Europe's absence. This includes the UK, which has spearheaded the coalition of the willing. European ministers have expressed concern and demanded a seat at the table, but the fact they must fight for basic involvement shows how far Europe has slipped from the ranks of global power. While Washington and Moscow negotiate the future of European security, Europe sits on the sidelines.
The first contrast we must face is between peace and pretence. A deal that rewards aggression, locks in Russian territorial gains and leaves Ukraine half defenceless is not peace. It is a pause.

There is a second and equally alarming element. Frozen Russian assets worth hundreds of billions are being turned into bargaining chips. One proposal circulating in Washington suggests that one hundred billion dollars of these frozen funds should be placed into a US-led reconstruction vehicle for Ukraine – with the US taking half of the profits. Europe is expected to add another hundred billion.
But at the same time unfreeze frozen European funds – some of which (at least) will go to a US-Russian investment vehicle. At the same time, Russia would be offered a path back into global economic and diplomatic structures.
My own experience as Nato secretary general taught me a simple and unforgiving truth. When Russia wants territory, it does not back down unless confronted by firm, united and credible resistance. Any peace plan that ignores this fact is not a plan but a fantasy.
 
Volodymyr Zelensky with Sir Keir Starmer outside 10 Downing Street Credit: Getty
The central question remains. What should Europe do?
First, Europe must stop being a commentator and finally become an actor. That begins with preparing a European led deterrence force stationed behind the front lines – not in the trenches – on Ukrainian soil before any peace agreement.
Russia, which has dragged North Korean fighters and mercenaries from all over the world into this war, cannot be allowed to dictate what support Ukrainians receive from their allies.
Second, Europe must insist that any settlement respect Ukraine's sovereignty and must be negotiated with Ukraine at the table. Kyiv's right to choose its alliances is non negotiable. Europe must also insist on enforceable security guarantees, not vague statements designed to be forgotten the moment ink dries on a document.
Third, Europe should certainly welcome American support in the areas where the US offers irreplaceable capabilities, particularly strategic lift, intelligence and air and missile defence. But Europeans must also be prepared to reject any agreement that trades away Ukrainian territory and European security purely for the sake of a quick signing ceremony.
It is right to acknowledge that the US president wants to end the war. Diplomacy is necessary. But the art of the deal cannot become the art of capitulation.


Ultimate acceptance will hinge on how bad Kyiv assesses the situation on the battlefield to be. If it is in real danger of collapse, as some think, it may swallow a close version of the deal. If not, it won't.

[Milltown Row2]

Trump is a bigger **** than Putin.

No, just two c***ts who are megalomaniacs!