FAI...New Manager is Heimir Hallgrimsson

[Baile Brigín 2]

How much would a decent system to develop players to age 18 cost? It would probably make more sense than ponying up for the Ryder Cup.

I saw an article recently that compared Shamrock Rovers' facilities to a 5th division club in Belgium.
.I was looking at the new stand in Galway's rugby ground.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/dexcom-stadium/the-new-dexcom-stadium/327/

Rugby runs a tight ship and has enough money for everything.  So does the GAA.

Football is the poor relation in Irish sport.

Poor relation because they all have their hand out the whole time, they aren't in it for the system or the betterment of the game. It's a professional setup top to bottom only they don't have the backing financially that they think they need from top level sponsors or revenue streams etc

Self fulfilling prophecy.

Which is it? The FAI aren't in it to improve the game or are professional top to bottom? Can't be both.

FAI can't improve it because of the nature and the structure of the sport.

Can you elaborate on that please.

[NAG1]

How much would a decent system to develop players to age 18 cost? It would probably make more sense than ponying up for the Ryder Cup.

I saw an article recently that compared Shamrock Rovers' facilities to a 5th division club in Belgium.
.I was looking at the new stand in Galway's rugby ground.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/dexcom-stadium/the-new-dexcom-stadium/327/

Rugby runs a tight ship and has enough money for everything.  So does the GAA.

Football is the poor relation in Irish sport.

Poor relation because they all have their hand out the whole time, they aren't in it for the system or the betterment of the game. It's a professional setup top to bottom only they don't have the backing financially that they think they need from top level sponsors or revenue streams etc

Self fulfilling prophecy.

Which is it? The FAI aren't in it to improve the game or are professional top to bottom? Can't be both.

FAI can't improve it because of the nature and the structure of the sport.

Can you elaborate on that please.

It's a sport where players / coaches anyone involved in the game the ground up are looking payment of some description. The clubs then are in an arms race to pay players more and more and the facilities don't seem to be prioritised.

Therefore you don't develop the environments to develop better and improve those players. You are relying on the English system to do this for you.

Maybe this is more reflective of the Northern system, but I can't recall a soccer club ever investing in their own facilities, why would they when they just go to their local council and demand that they provide.

[Baile Brigín 2]

How much would a decent system to develop players to age 18 cost? It would probably make more sense than ponying up for the Ryder Cup.

I saw an article recently that compared Shamrock Rovers' facilities to a 5th division club in Belgium.
.I was looking at the new stand in Galway's rugby ground.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/dexcom-stadium/the-new-dexcom-stadium/327/

Rugby runs a tight ship and has enough money for everything.  So does the GAA.

Football is the poor relation in Irish sport.

Poor relation because they all have their hand out the whole time, they aren't in it for the system or the betterment of the game. It's a professional setup top to bottom only they don't have the backing financially that they think they need from top level sponsors or revenue streams etc

Self fulfilling prophecy.

Which is it? The FAI aren't in it to improve the game or are professional top to bottom? Can't be both.

FAI can't improve it because of the nature and the structure of the sport.

Can you elaborate on that please.

It's a sport where players / coaches anyone involved in the game the ground up are looking payment of some description. The clubs then are in an arms race to pay players more and more and the facilities don't seem to be prioritised.

Therefore you don't develop the environments to develop better and improve those players. You are relying on the English system to do this for you.

Maybe this is more reflective of the Northern system, but I can't recall a soccer club ever investing in their own facilities, why would they when they just go to their local council and demand that they provide.

Everyone involved in soccer gets paid? No soccer club in the north invests in it's facilities?

Are you for real?

[lurganblue]

How much would a decent system to develop players to age 18 cost? It would probably make more sense than ponying up for the Ryder Cup.

I saw an article recently that compared Shamrock Rovers' facilities to a 5th division club in Belgium.
.I was looking at the new stand in Galway's rugby ground.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/dexcom-stadium/the-new-dexcom-stadium/327/

Rugby runs a tight ship and has enough money for everything.  So does the GAA.

Football is the poor relation in Irish sport.

Poor relation because they all have their hand out the whole time, they aren't in it for the system or the betterment of the game. It's a professional setup top to bottom only they don't have the backing financially that they think they need from top level sponsors or revenue streams etc

Self fulfilling prophecy.

Which is it? The FAI aren't in it to improve the game or are professional top to bottom? Can't be both.

FAI can't improve it because of the nature and the structure of the sport.

Can you elaborate on that please.

It's a sport where players / coaches anyone involved in the game the ground up are looking payment of some description. The clubs then are in an arms race to pay players more and more and the facilities don't seem to be prioritised.

Therefore you don't develop the environments to develop better and improve those players. You are relying on the English system to do this for you.

Maybe this is more reflective of the Northern system, but I can't recall a soccer club ever investing in their own facilities, why would they when they just go to their local council and demand that they provide.

Everyone involved in soccer gets paid? No soccer club in the north invests in it's facilities?

Are you for real?

I wouldnt know a whole lot about this but I know locally that some do and some dont. In terms of clubs that have underage development structures, they rake in some amount of money. Monthly fees for each child, that have to be paid even during the off season.  No doubt some of that goes towards their facilities, utilities and paying of senior squad.

[mouview]

In a cooler light of day, at what point do we blame the players? Collins is a solid, dependable premiership defender. He turns into Bambi on ice for Ireland. Cullen is the captain of a premiership team. He can't string a pass when in green.

We need to stop picking players simply on the basis of their clubs. O'Neill has no issue playing lads at nowhere clubs on the basis of international form.

Get a sports psychologist in, I believe Shamrock Rovers have a full time one

It's all very well, saying we should be better than what we are, because we have some premiership players. But how many of our players are anything but journeymen or solid pros for their clubs? I think some of the problem stems from the fact that they are surrounded by much better quality players at club level and are carried to an extent, or not relied upon so much, particularly creatively. When you group so many such ordinary players into a national team, you can't be surprised when the outcome is so underwhelming.

[fearsiuil]

How much would a decent system to develop players to age 18 cost? It would probably make more sense than ponying up for the Ryder Cup.

I saw an article recently that compared Shamrock Rovers' facilities to a 5th division club in Belgium.
.I was looking at the new stand in Galway's rugby ground.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/dexcom-stadium/the-new-dexcom-stadium/327/

Rugby runs a tight ship and has enough money for everything.  So does the GAA.

Football is the poor relation in Irish sport.

Rugby can leverage corporate sponsorship in a way no other team sport can, but still has major financial problems. Excluding the racing nonsense, the GAA gets more grants than every other sport combined. That's more than 50 sports. Soccer is the working man's game so mostly misses out on both.

I read a counter to that report. Rovers acadamy was compared to a very specific Belgian 5th tier club, one that is better than most Belgian 1st division sides. A headline grabbing outlier. Stephen Bradley was accused of having too much control over the acadamy and a few pages later of not talking enough to the acadamy staff and not attending underage games. A confusing set of claims.

But Rovers acadamy has produced 2 of the current Irish squad, another from the last one, one of the squad is a current player and two ex players there. They have made millions in player sales. The issue is they are doing it with zero FAI or state support.

Other than getting a stadium built for them by South Dublin CoCo - this despite being Ireland's biggest and most successful soccer club. Their fan base from when based in Milltown to all the places they played prior to the very generous offering from Tallaght is wide spread yet all we hear is "doing it with zero FAI or state support".

[Baile Brigín 2]

How much would a decent system to develop players to age 18 cost? It would probably make more sense than ponying up for the Ryder Cup.

I saw an article recently that compared Shamrock Rovers' facilities to a 5th division club in Belgium.
.I was looking at the new stand in Galway's rugby ground.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/dexcom-stadium/the-new-dexcom-stadium/327/

Rugby runs a tight ship and has enough money for everything.  So does the GAA.

Football is the poor relation in Irish sport.

Poor relation because they all have their hand out the whole time, they aren't in it for the system or the betterment of the game. It's a professional setup top to bottom only they don't have the backing financially that they think they need from top level sponsors or revenue streams etc

Self fulfilling prophecy.

Which is it? The FAI aren't in it to improve the game or are professional top to bottom? Can't be both.

FAI can't improve it because of the nature and the structure of the sport.

Can you elaborate on that please.

It's a sport where players / coaches anyone involved in the game the ground up are looking payment of some description. The clubs then are in an arms race to pay players more and more and the facilities don't seem to be prioritised.

Therefore you don't develop the environments to develop better and improve those players. You are relying on the English system to do this for you.

Maybe this is more reflective of the Northern system, but I can't recall a soccer club ever investing in their own facilities, why would they when they just go to their local council and demand that they provide.

Everyone involved in soccer gets paid? No soccer club in the north invests in it's facilities?

Are you for real?

I wouldnt know a whole lot about this but I know locally that some do and some dont. In terms of clubs that have underage development structures, they rake in some amount of money. Monthly fees for each child, that have to be paid even during the off season.  No doubt some of that goes towards their facilities, utilities and paying of senior squad.

The chap claimed *everyone* involved in grassroots soccer demands money and *not one* club north of Dundalk invests in it's facilities. And apparently he is serious.

I would doubt many clubs take money off youth members to pay adult players to be honest, as we all know it costs a fortune to run youth sport and soccer has the added cost of mandatory coaching licences. At a semi pro club you need to drop thousands per coach.

[Baile Brigín 2]

In a cooler light of day, at what point do we blame the players? Collins is a solid, dependable premiership defender. He turns into Bambi on ice for Ireland. Cullen is the captain of a premiership team. He can't string a pass when in green.

We need to stop picking players simply on the basis of their clubs. O'Neill has no issue playing lads at nowhere clubs on the basis of international form.

Get a sports psychologist in, I believe Shamrock Rovers have a full time one

It's all very well, saying we should be better than what we are, because we have some premiership players. But how many of our players are anything but journeymen or solid pros for their clubs? I think some of the problem stems from the fact that they are surrounded by much better quality players at club level and are carried to an extent, or not relied upon so much, particularly creatively. When you group so many such ordinary players into a national team, you can't be surprised when the outcome is so underwhelming.

Lots of top players play for inferior national sides and perform. The fact that all 4 premiership clubbed starters were simultaneously shite is an issue.

[seafoid]

In a cooler light of day, at what point do we blame the players? Collins is a solid, dependable premiership defender. He turns into Bambi on ice for Ireland. Cullen is the captain of a premiership team. He can't string a pass when in green.

We need to stop picking players simply on the basis of their clubs. O'Neill has no issue playing lads at nowhere clubs on the basis of international form.

Get a sports psychologist in, I believe Shamrock Rovers have a full time one

It's all very well, saying we should be better than what we are, because we have some premiership players. But how many of our players are anything but journeymen or solid pros for their clubs? I think some of the problem stems from the fact that they are surrounded by much better quality players at club level and are carried to an extent, or not relied upon so much, particularly creatively. When you group so many such ordinary players into a national team, you can't be surprised when the outcome is so underwhelming.

Lots of top players play for inferior national sides and perform. The fact that all 4 premiership clubbed starters were simultaneously shite is an issue.

That's one thing but the wider context is that we have been shite for the last 5 years.

[imtommygunn]

It's been a lot longer than 5 years. There is no reason we should just assume we are better than teams like Armenia.

[Bord na Mona man]

I don't see any immediate upturn in Ireland's fortunes.
Brexit killed Ireland's ability to outsource talent development to England. It used to just need early emerging talent to be brought half way and then the experts cross channel would take over.

The vacuum has not been filled yet, because
- there isn't that expertise domestically
- they're broke and can't fast track it
- culturally, Irish soccer is hampered by adopting the same English values of preferring technically limited lionhearts over Flash Harries
- The auditioning for English clubs mentality also skewed the machine to prioritise big lads who are effective at an early age and get noticed quicker - late developers, smaller, or more technical players will fall by the wayside.

A different culture, with a more long term, holistic approach towards player development needs to be built. That may take a while.

[NAG1]

It's been a lot longer than 5 years. There is no reason we should just assume we are better than teams like Armenia.

It's systemic maybe not as much in the South but in North for sure they dont invest in the own facilities because they dont own any (with the very odd exception) rely on councils and government investment for their facilities.

Like it or not that is the fact, and hence why they rely on systems across the water to develop their players for them.

[Baile Brigín 2]

It's been a lot longer than 5 years. There is no reason we should just assume we are better than teams like Armenia.

It's systemic maybe not as much in the South but in North for sure they dont invest in the own facilities because they dont own any (with the very odd exception) rely on councils and government investment for their facilities.

Like it or not that is the fact, and hence why they rely on systems across the water to develop their players for them.

It's not a fact. It just isn't.

[NAG1]

It's been a lot longer than 5 years. There is no reason we should just assume we are better than teams like Armenia.

It's systemic maybe not as much in the South but in North for sure they dont invest in the own facilities because they dont own any (with the very odd exception) rely on councils and government investment for their facilities.

Like it or not that is the fact, and hence why they rely on systems across the water to develop their players for them.

It's not a fact. It just isn't.

Take a look at the IFA announcement today 

Might not like it, might not be right but that is the way it is.

[Baile Brigín 2]

In a cooler light of day, at what point do we blame the players? Collins is a solid, dependable premiership defender. He turns into Bambi on ice for Ireland. Cullen is the captain of a premiership team. He can't string a pass when in green.

We need to stop picking players simply on the basis of their clubs. O'Neill has no issue playing lads at nowhere clubs on the basis of international form.

Get a sports psychologist in, I believe Shamrock Rovers have a full time one

It's all very well, saying we should be better than what we are, because we have some premiership players. But how many of our players are anything but journeymen or solid pros for their clubs? I think some of the problem stems from the fact that they are surrounded by much better quality players at club level and are carried to an extent, or not relied upon so much, particularly creatively. When you group so many such ordinary players into a national team, you can't be surprised when the outcome is so underwhelming.

Lots of top players play for inferior national sides and perform. The fact that all 4 premiership clubbed starters were simultaneously shite is an issue.

That's one thing but the wider context is that we have been shite for the last 5 years.

Interesting piece in today's Irish Times asking why if as HH says the players are psychologically scarred by the past few years there isn't a sports psychologist involved. It's a valid point.