A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)

[David McKeown]

Going back to the topic, did SF/SDLP/Alliance shoot themselves in the foot here by supporting the Green Party's proposed Climate Change Act which included the 2050 target of zero emissions, rather than the DAERA one which had a more realistic and achievable 82% reduction?

It would have made no difference in this instance. The issue isn't would this have preventing them meeting a target. The issue was there was no evidence gathered to allow DFI to conclude either way whether they could meet their target.

[marty34]

Going back to the topic, did SF/SDLP/Alliance shoot themselves in the foot here by supporting the Green Party's proposed Climate Change Act which included the 2050 target of zero emissions, rather than the DAERA one which had a more realistic and achievable 82% reduction?

It would have made no difference in this instance. The issue isn't would this have preventing them meeting a target. The issue was there was no evidence gathered to allow DFI to conclude either way whether they could meet their target.

So how, in your opinion David, is this resolved?

[Dougal Maguire]

The problem that I have with the environmental issue is wait to you see the bonfires in about 3 weeks time. The amount of rubbish and tyres etc. being burned is crazy.

Not only that but the amount of farmers and companies poisioning fish in rivers ever other month is mad. Then a token fine.

Plus the amount of sewage being pumped into the water ways is crazy also.

I could go on but what's the point.

Either work to clean the environment or don't basically.

100% or nothing. 

The people involved couldn't give one f**k about the environment. Its to stop the fenians getting anything. Plain and simple

It's more to do with the perception of strengthening connections across the island of Ireland than 'fenians' getting something.

Certain backward looking unionists will probably see this as a road from Dublin going right through our wee country.

Objection to the Carlingford bridge comes from the same mindset.

I don't think you're comparing like with like. Narrow Water bridge is primarily a vanity project which is going to do little to alleviate congestion on the approaches to Newry. I don't recall there being any big unionist objection to it

[David McKeown]

Going back to the topic, did SF/SDLP/Alliance shoot themselves in the foot here by supporting the Green Party's proposed Climate Change Act which included the 2050 target of zero emissions, rather than the DAERA one which had a more realistic and achievable 82% reduction?

It would have made no difference in this instance. The issue isn't would this have preventing them meeting a target. The issue was there was no evidence gathered to allow DFI to conclude either way whether they could meet their target.

So how, in your opinion David, is this resolved?

Well the judgment seems to answer that one itself

The decision was quashed due to "the failure to demonstrate any consideration of the human rights issues raised by the PAC when rejecting the recommendation that permission should be time-limited and the failure to comply with the requirements of the domestic iteration of the EIA Directive in respect of placing the new environmental information in the form of the updated GHG emissions estimates out for public consultation and scrutiny."

The judgement goes on to say "The shortcomings and shortcuts in the decision making highlighted in this judgment are capable of being remedied.  The relevant Ministers, departments and officials should redouble their efforts to deal with these shortcomings and that may involve the finalisation of a CAP which is long overdue"

In other words the Judgement is saying this is easily sorted just go and sort it.

I should add I don't understand this issue about the secrecy of the AA5A given they are all named in the title of the Judgement

[Dougal Maguire]

Well if it's that easy to resolve, and I'm obviously not disagreeing with you, why are they starting to return the land to the landowners?

[David McKeown]

Well if it's that easy to resolve, and I'm obviously not disagreeing with you, why are they starting to return the land to the landowners?

I don't know I had heard that but not sure what the legal basis would be. Speculating it may be cleaner to do that and then retake the land when all the ducks are in a row which would weaken any Human Rights claim in respect of interference with property?  Just speculation from me though.

[marty34]

Going back to the topic, did SF/SDLP/Alliance shoot themselves in the foot here by supporting the Green Party's proposed Climate Change Act which included the 2050 target of zero emissions, rather than the DAERA one which had a more realistic and achievable 82% reduction?

It would have made no difference in this instance. The issue isn't would this have preventing them meeting a target. The issue was there was no evidence gathered to allow DFI to conclude either way whether they could meet their target.

So how, in your opinion David, is this resolved?

Well the judgment seems to answer that one itself

The decision was quashed due to "the failure to demonstrate any consideration of the human rights issues raised by the PAC when rejecting the recommendation that permission should be time-limited and the failure to comply with the requirements of the domestic iteration of the EIA Directive in respect of placing the new environmental information in the form of the updated GHG emissions estimates out for public consultation and scrutiny."

The judgement goes on to say "The shortcomings and shortcuts in the decision making highlighted in this judgment are capable of being remedied.  The relevant Ministers, departments and officials should redouble their efforts to deal with these shortcomings and that may involve the finalisation of a CAP which is long overdue"

In other words the Judgement is saying this is easily sorted just go and sort it.

I should add I don't understand this issue about the secrecy of the AA5A given they are all named in the title of the Judgement

Ok. Thanks.

It's a 100 page document. Very detailed.

[RedHand88]

How did DFI drop the ball so massively on this? Why can't they just rectify it now instead of beginning to hand back land? I'd say the political will is still there for it to go ahead?

[Dougal Maguire]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories normally, but is there possibly someone on the inside of DFI deliberately messing up the plans and leaving loopholes for the objectors?

That point might not be as daft as you might think. Not necessarily deliberately messing things up but perhaps passing inside information to the objectors

[Hereiam]

The fact that a figure hadn't even been agreed for what the landowners were to be paid was a red flag, I will say it again.....this road will never be built

[imtommygunn]

It has the same kind of likelihood as casement getting built. Another ongoing saga with just one roadblock after another and mounting costs as this happens.

[jb77]

John Hamilton Hassard; Robin Bruce; Carol Porter; Robert McKean; David Peoples; Wildridge Coote; Derick Donnell; David Brush; and Victor Brush

The names of the objectors, uh. I wonder how many will be down to see Tyrone vs Dublin or maybe their just sad Derry fans

[trileacman]

John Hamilton Hassard; Robin Bruce; Carol Porter; Robert McKean; David Peoples; Wildridge Coote; Derick Donnell; David Brush; and Victor Brush

The names of the objectors, uh. I wonder how many will be down to see Tyrone vs Dublin or maybe their just sad Derry fans

What I find unforgivable is that Ciaran O'Hare represented these lads and Justice McAlinden sided with them. Not that it's surprising, these ambulance chasing pricks would sell their soul for a half-crown.

[Hereiam]

And it was quoted that they represent a cross section of the community...some chance

[Rois]

John Hamilton Hassard; Robin Bruce; Carol Porter; Robert McKean; David Peoples; Wildridge Coote; Derick Donnell; David Brush; and Victor Brush

The names of the objectors, uh. I wonder how many will be down to see Tyrone vs Dublin or maybe their just sad Derry fans

Flip I know one of them, my late brother saved his son's life when he fell into a grain store.

His land is on the Strabane to Derry stretch.