Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[general_lee]

Iran will take its time in replying. Israel has bitten off more than it can chew.

The sanctions against Israel can't come soon enough. Israel is out of control.

Would it be fair to say what Israel has done is by far worse than Russia.

I'm not condoning Russia by the way.

But the double standards around sanctions is mad.

No it wouldn't be fair to say it. Would you say that if YOUR entire family had been recently burnt to death in their beds or been crushed by rubble from a Russian drone strike?

Perhaps you'd like to pop out for pint of milk in Kherson but can't because some f**king orc will drop a munition from a drone on top of you. Trying to kill everything and anything that moves for over 3 years now.

Tell the uncounted dead buried in mass graves outside Mariupol or still buried, rotting in ruined buildings that what Russia is doing isn't as bad as Gaza.

Russia and Israel are the same. Scum.

I also won't be mourning the Iran military officials wiped out by Israel either. The Iranian military has been helping Russia murder Ukrainian children these past 3 years. Scum.

Your point about sanctions and double standards is valid. Though the Orange Turd can't wait to even things up in that regard.

Yes I agree with all that but is what israels done not multiple times that.

Both are disgraceful countries but what I'm pointing out is the double standards when it comes to sanctions.

No, I wouldn't say that what Israel is doing is 'multiple times' what Russia is doing.

It's difficult to know what the true death toll is in Ukraine, unsurprisingly the Russians aren't providing numbers from occupied Ukraine. Tens of thousands of civilians are thought to have died in the siege of Mariupol alone.

I also regard the death of every single Ukrainian soldier as murder. Every single one of them is an unnecessary death caused by Russia. Probably in the region of 75-100k.

Believe it or not, it is possible to point out western hypocrisy and the horror of that is happening in Gaza without downplaying Ukrainian suffering (whether you meant to or not).

What Israel is and has been doing (throughout it's entire existence) is infinitely worse than what Russia is doing to Ukraine - according to the deputy mayor half of those killed in Mariupol are ethnically Russian 

Ukraine has the means to resist and fight back with western backing, Palestine has Hamas and even then some Palestinians have had enough of their tactics.

[Banks of the Bann]

Lots of nonsense to unpack there.

'infinitely worse' - you're a perfect example of one of those I mentioned who downplay Ukrainian suffering. A lot of this goes on with Palestinian supporters. I'm not sure what the motivation is - do you resent Ukraine for not rolling over and dying or is it the help they've received that you resent? Either way, Ukrainian lives and suffering clearly don't matter to you.

I haven't seen the quote you refer to but I would hazard a guess that it was made to highlight the ridiculousness of the Russian claim to be coming to the rescue of 'ethnic Russians'. (They killed them in reality).

What is the relevance of the perceived 'ethnicity' of those that Russia murdered in Mariupol to your argument? Why have you followed that statement with that emoji? Do their lives not count if they were 'ethnic Russian'? What makes you think 'ethnic Russians' want to be part of a shithole like Russia and not keep their relatively comfortable and peaceful lives in Ukraine? Have you ever spoken to a Russian speaking Ukrainian from eastern Ukraine? I have spoken to many and not a single one wanted to be part of Russia. More than anyone, they know the state of the place and what is is.

As for what Israel has done since its entire existence - hmm, shall we examine what Russia has done to Ukraine throughout its entire existence? How far back do you want to go?

Want to talk about the circa 4 million deaths in the 1930s? How about the entire ethnic cleansing of Crimea in the 1940s. Speaking of which, I've heard pro-Palestinians rage about the Nabka in 1948 and the same people say Crimea should be part of Russia because of the 'ethnic Russians' who live there without so much as a bat of an eyelid or any consideration how they got there. (Clue: removing people and replacing them with other people and stealing everything they own)

Or perhaps you'd prefer to stay in the present day to which we can add:

Invasion.
Siege of cities and indiscriminate bombing of civilians with thermobaric weapons.
Destruction of entire cities.
Capture, torture and murder of civilians.
Rape of men, woman and children as young as 4.
Forced enlistment of men from occupied areas to fight against their own country.
Kidnapping of children and erasure of their identity.
Erasure of Ukrainian National identity in occupied areas.
Torture, beheading, castration and murder of POWs and recorded themselves doing it no less.
Illegal annexation of Ukrainian territory (oh yeah, isn't that what Israel is attempting to do in the West Bank and Gaza that's got you so perplexed?).

[thejuice]

UK and German refuelling aircraft caught flying between Israel and Iran in Jordanian and Iraqi airspace. They momentarily turned on their transponders then switched them off again when it became apparent.

Of course European states will deny any involvement and make public condemnations but behind closed doors our leaders are all in behind Israel. Utter shame.

[johnnycool]

UK and German refuelling aircraft caught flying between Israel and Iran in Jordanian and Iraqi airspace. They momentarily turned on their transponders then switched them off again when it became apparent.

Of course European states will deny any involvement and make public condemnations but behind closed doors our leaders are all in behind Israel. Utter shame.

shameful indeed, but they know it won't have any impact on them come election time, in fact quite the opposite as Corbyn found out.

With Iran able to land hypersonic missiles in Tel Aviv and Haifa, I wonder what the impact will be on the Israeli population there! They're no longer untouchable as they were made believe, so will they head back to the US, Europe, Russia etc where a lot of them originated from?

[Banks of the Bann]

Don't think I'd fancy being up in an airliner anywhere near the ME at the min. I'm sure it's a long way off, but still..

https://x.com/caolanreports/status/1934530669881041033?s=46

[general_lee]

Lots of nonsense to unpack there.

'infinitely worse' - you're a perfect example of one of those I mentioned who downplay Ukrainian suffering. A lot of this goes on with Palestinian supporters.

I'm not downplaying anything, the Ukraine war is between two corrupt  countries led by utter nutjobs. Russia is of course wrong to have invaded. What Russia is doing is not on the same level as Israel though.

[Banks of the Bann]

Lots of nonsense to unpack there.

'infinitely worse' - you're a perfect example of one of those I mentioned who downplay Ukrainian suffering. A lot of this goes on with Palestinian supporters.

I'm not downplaying anything, the Ukraine war is between two corrupt  countries led by utter nutjobs. Russia is of course wrong to have invaded. What Russia is doing is not on the same level as Israel though.

Ah, a variation on the old 'two sides are as bad as each other' argument. Equating the victim with the aggressor.

All you're doing is demonstrating that you're a complete ignoramus.

In what way is Volodymyr Zelenskyy a 'nut job'? Let's hear it.

Ukrainian corruption is nowhere near the scale of Russian corruption. Again equating the victim with the aggressor. Ukraine is actively working to root out corruption whereas Russia, well it's pretty much a Mafia state. Also, the EU Accession agreement that Russian puppet Yanukovych torpedoed required Ukraine to stamp out corruption.

You're lazy, ignorant and clueless and with the arrogant confidence that usually accompanies such traits.

So Zelenskyy is a nut job.. present your case.

p.s. if you're going to say what Russia is doing is not on the same level as Israel, you need to explain your reasoning.

[jb77]

Incorporating neo-nazi AZOV into the national guard is pretty nutty to be fair

[Banks of the Bann]

Incorporating neo-nazi AZOV into the national guard is pretty nutty to be fair

Sure, purging the Azov Brigade of its far right elements and incorporating it into the National Giard as a regiment to allow greater oversight sure is a crazy thing to do.

Next!

[jb77]

Purged of its love for Bandera, haha

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Can you move this to the Ukraine thread..

[Brendan]

Think this thread needs renamed as well, "What are the Israelis at now?"

[Rossfan]

According to themselves they are "saving Europe" and they're upset because the nasty Iranians retaliated when attacked.

Parallel universe🙄

[imtommygunn]

The BBC said it was an "empire walk". They seem concerned about the people of Iran due to their regime so they are helping them out it seems...

Is there any doubt around Iran having nuclear arms? I had read from a labour MP that there was / is however I don't know how good a source they are.

[johnnycool]

Tel Aviv

Iran's missiles are getting through.

They're making a serious mess.

This is only going to get worse for all involved and whilst it's hard to have any sympathy for Israelis there are going to be innocents killed in big numbers with the West pouring fuel to the fire as usual.