Ulster Colleges

[FermGael]

The reason I lumped in Monaghan is because they're a rural county with similar levels of success in the MacRory Cup to Donegal sides over the past 15 years. Yet they've still won 3 Ulster minors and appeared in 3 other Ulster minor finals. A seeming lack of ability to compete at grade A schools level does not hamper them in producing county level footballers. Nor does it hamper Donegal.... In my opinion.

By the way, St Michael's have shown time and again that a medium-small school can conquer the MacRory, so long as there's a football culture and a little patience. I'm not overly familiar with Donegal schools but I'd be honestly shocked if 3-4 schools in that county aren't significantly bigger than Enniskillen.

I wouldn't throw St Michaels into this that quick.

Yes not the biggest school but it's all boys and basically has the pick of the entire county of Fermanagh.

[JoG2]

Incidentally this isn't a Donegal issue, the Derry city amalgamation shouldn't be there either.

Yeah, fcuk those City boys too.

Look, I've no real skin in the game, youngest still at school likes the football, doesn't love it. Giving boys, whether in Derry City a chance to play at the highest school level is a positive in my books. If it turns out the amalgamations are too strong, obviously revisit. Cahair Doire I don't think won a game but were competitive as. Far as I hear.
Maybe the schools have a plan to improve, who doesn't want to improve? If SW Donegal hadn't won a game, not a word would have been said.. Apple cart slightly rocked just

[RoundBall]

Yeah its absolute nonsense and shouldn't be allowed and won't be from next year by all accounts. All the better considering Damian Diver's plans to roll it out as a county wide project next year. Schools themselves were not consulted and aggrieved that players were "advised" not to play for their own schools in what are schools competitions. Be some kick in the teeth to Abbey in Donegal Town, a genuine school team who've put in a lot of work alongside the local club and earmed themselves a MacRory spot from competing in the Faul Cup at one point a number of years ago,if this elitist all star amalgamation were to beat them down the line to win the Premier "Schools" competition, the MacRory Cup. This is hardly an area that's under developed in it's gaelic footballing tradition either, West Donegal, the South West and the Rosses are traditionally the strongest gaelic footballing areas in the county. People are only raising it as an issue now though that the team is doing well in the competition, should have been knocked on the head from the beginning.

[Wildweasel74]

St Micheal's 900-1000, All boys. So it's a bigger playing pick that most schools.

[skeog]

Are Amalgamations allowed in Hogan Cup ?

[J70]

The reason I lumped in Monaghan is because they're a rural county with similar levels of success in the MacRory Cup to Donegal sides over the past 15 years. Yet they've still won 3 Ulster minors and appeared in 3 other Ulster minor finals. A seeming lack of ability to compete at grade A schools level does not hamper them in producing county level footballers. Nor does it hamper Donegal.... In my opinion.

By the way, St Michael's have shown time and again that a medium-small school can conquer the MacRory, so long as there's a football culture and a little patience. I'm not overly familiar with Donegal schools but I'd be honestly shocked if 3-4 schools in that county aren't significantly bigger than Enniskillen.

I wouldn't throw St Michaels into this that quick.

Yes not the biggest school but it's all boys and basically has the pick of the entire county of Fermanagh.

Is that the only available school in Fermanagh?

It's still not clear to me how kids end up in these secondary schools. At least when I was growing up in Donegal, you went to the nearest one, unless you went away to a boarding school.

[thewobbler]

The reason I lumped in Monaghan is because they're a rural county with similar levels of success in the MacRory Cup to Donegal sides over the past 15 years. Yet they've still won 3 Ulster minors and appeared in 3 other Ulster minor finals. A seeming lack of ability to compete at grade A schools level does not hamper them in producing county level footballers. Nor does it hamper Donegal.... In my opinion.

By the way, St Michael's have shown time and again that a medium-small school can conquer the MacRory, so long as there's a football culture and a little patience. I'm not overly familiar with Donegal schools but I'd be honestly shocked if 3-4 schools in that county aren't significantly bigger than Enniskillen.

I wouldn't throw St Michaels into this that quick.

Yes not the biggest school but it's all boys and basically has the pick of the entire county of Fermanagh.

Is that the only available school in Fermanagh?

It's still not clear to me how kids end up in these secondary schools. At least when I was growing up in Donegal, you went to the nearest one, unless you went away to a boarding school.

It's a little bit more complicated in the wee six in that we've got a mix of grammar, comprehensive, co-ed, single gender, Catholic, Protestant and integrated schools. Depending on a family's values (which sometimes might align with football) they might send their kids 20 miles for a school that ticks all their boxes e.g. St Colman's in Newry has students from Banbridge and Lurgan, because it's one of the closest Catholic boys grammar schools to that town.

St Michael's in Enniskillen is a good example of this. The nearest equivalent school is about 25 miles away. And given that it's a small county, this puts pretty much the entire county in St Michael's hinterland.

[marty34]

The reason I lumped in Monaghan is because they're a rural county with similar levels of success in the MacRory Cup to Donegal sides over the past 15 years. Yet they've still won 3 Ulster minors and appeared in 3 other Ulster minor finals. A seeming lack of ability to compete at grade A schools level does not hamper them in producing county level footballers. Nor does it hamper Donegal.... In my opinion.

By the way, St Michael's have shown time and again that a medium-small school can conquer the MacRory, so long as there's a football culture and a little patience. I'm not overly familiar with Donegal schools but I'd be honestly shocked if 3-4 schools in that county aren't significantly bigger than Enniskillen.

I wouldn't throw St Michaels into this that quick.

Yes not the biggest school but it's all boys and basically has the pick of the entire county of Fermanagh.

Is that the only available school in Fermanagh?

It's still not clear to me how kids end up in these secondary schools. At least when I was growing up in Donegal, you went to the nearest one, unless you went away to a boarding school.

It's a little bit more complicated in the wee six in that we've got a mix of grammar, comprehensive, co-ed, single gender, Catholic, Protestant and integrated schools. Depending on a family's values (which sometimes might align with football) they might send their kids 20 miles for a school that ticks all their boxes e.g. St Colman's in Newry has students from Banbridge and Lurgan, because it's one of the closest Catholic boys grammar schools to that town.

St Michael's in Enniskillen is a good example of this. The nearest equivalent school is about 25 miles away. And given that it's a small county, this puts pretty much the entire county in St Michael's hinterland.

You forgot the emerging Irish language sector also. A recent report states that another Irish medium secondary is needed in Belfast. Another one is probably needed in the Omagh area also.


Off topic a bit but there couldn't be too many secondary schools in Fermanagh? Small enough county. I remember they were going to close one near Beleek (IIRC) but not sure if it got a reprieve?

Would there be, outwith Enniskillen, any Protestant secondary schools in Fermanagh?

[FermGael]

Enniskillen has 4 schools
St Michaels (grammar - all boys )
St Joseph's (secondary - all boys )
Mount Lourdes ( grammar - all girls)
St Fancheas ( secondary - all girls )

These are all Catholic schools.

Then you have the integrated secondary ( mixed )
You also have Enniskillen Royal ( Protestant grammar mixed, formerly Potora and Collegiate)
Devenish ( Protestant mixed ability high school )

Then you have St Kevin's Lisnaskea ( mixed Catholic all ability )

And St Aidan's Derrylin ( mixed Catholic all ability)

Brollagh was the school in Belleek but it was closed

[J70]

So does all that mean that a young lad who is showing a bit of promise as a footballer can choose to go to a school with a strong GAA program instead of some other nearby option?

If so, is there an element of "recruitment", whether passive or not, in that certain schools attract the better players?

[bennydorano]

So does all that mean that a young lad who is showing a bit of promise as a footballer can choose to go to a school with a strong GAA program instead of some other nearby option?

If so, is there an element of "recruitment", whether passive or not, in that certain schools attract the better players?

Oh yes, manys a young lad has ended up in a  MacRory Grammar (mostly for 6th year entry 16/17yrs) but highly unfit for the schooling. Not so much from 1st year tho.

[johnnycool]

So does all that mean that a young lad who is showing a bit of promise as a footballer can choose to go to a school with a strong GAA program instead of some other nearby option?

If so, is there an element of "recruitment", whether passive or not, in that certain schools attract the better players?

The entry requirements to some of these Grammars may be relaxed slightly if wee Johnny is good at kicking a ball.

Slightly bigger Johnny mightn'd have done overly well at the ole GCSE's but he can really kick a ball (or handpass it well) so he can have a wee go at the A levels whereas if he wasn't good at kicking a ball he's be on the sites or the local tech.

The flip side of Wobblers well made argument of Donegal producing good underage teams without any McCrory pedigree is that maybe, just maybe McCrory isn't be all and end all of a young players development.

How many McCrory Allstars have failed to live up to the hype beyond this level?

[jay110]

St Micheal's 900-1000, All boys. So it's a bigger playing pick that most schools.

They are a school of 6-700 boys from a pick of a county that is unable to come Pete at any level

[J70]

Don't think any is saying it's the be-all-and-end-all, just like Donegal's usual absence is not "debilitating".

It's a complex, but interesting discussion.

But for now, godspeed Damien Diver, at least for as long as they let you!

[ClubScene13]

Don't agree with amalgamations but MacRory has always been shady enough at times. That Holy Trinity episode a particularly bad one. It was always strange that it wasn't aligned with Hogan rules at times as well, can't remember the details but wasn't it a case that if you were repeating the year and had a young birthday (U18.5) you could play Hogan but not MacRory which was U18?