Ulster Colleges

[JoG2]

Hysterical much?

If amalgamations of smaller rural schools or schools were football is pretty much an after thought, allows players to play at a higher level, thus developing them and putting them into the shop window of county football (and benefitting their clubs) , then this can only be a positive. Taking this to the extreme and getting your knickers in a twist doesn't help anyone, especially your blood pressure

[Ethan Tremblay]

The points are valid I think, underage county football exists for players to be put into the shop window. 

The inter county underage system in Armagh seems to pick up future stars well before the McRory cup comes around, the notion schools football is a shop window for county isn't fully valid. 

McRory cup does get more exposure for sure, but I stand by the point any player standing out at this level is already on the radar of their county managers. 

As an aside, I coached a minor team, boys being involved with the county was no benefit to us, as we never seen them for 7months of a 9month year 

[J70]

So we should just deny young players in more remote places like Donegal the advantage their counterparts in much of the north have with access to these big traditional GAA schools and the ability to play a couple of years worth of high level football outside of county set-ups?

[thewobbler]

So we should just deny young players in more remote places like Donegal the advantage their counterparts in much of the north have with access to these big traditional GAA schools and the ability to play a couple of years worth of high level football outside of county set-ups?

Could you describe the advantage J70?

I mean if what you're saying is true, that the MacRory creates advantages for its players, then Donegal and Monaghan wouldn't count at minor and senior football levels.

[gallsman]

The pretence that county minor is in any way the same thing ffs.

[J70]

So we should just deny young players in more remote places like Donegal the advantage their counterparts in much of the north have with access to these big traditional GAA schools and the ability to play a couple of years worth of high level football outside of county set-ups?

Could you describe the advantage J70?

I mean if what you're saying is true, that the MacRory creates advantages for its players, then Donegal and Monaghan wouldn't count at minor and senior football levels.

Maybe I'm just not very bright, but to me it would seem to go without saying that the more time one spends training and competing with better skilled teammates and playing against better skilled opposition, the more opportunity one has to hone and practice their owns skills and execution and build experience amidst that higher level of pressure and required speed of thought.

And if you really want to equate the two, it's not like Donegal have been pulling up any trees at intercounty underage levels over the years. We won two AI U-21s back in the 80s. We've never won an AI minor championship.

[thewobbler]

So we should just deny young players in more remote places like Donegal the advantage their counterparts in much of the north have with access to these big traditional GAA schools and the ability to play a couple of years worth of high level football outside of county set-ups?

Could you describe the advantage J70?

I mean if what you're saying is true, that the MacRory creates advantages for its players, then Donegal and Monaghan wouldn't count at minor and senior football levels.

Maybe I'm just not very bright, but to me it would seem to go without saying that the more time one spends training and competing with better skilled teammates and playing against better skilled opposition, the more opportunity one has to hone and practice their owns skills and execution and build experience amidst that higher level of pressure and required speed of thought.

And if you really want to equate the two, it's not like Donegal have been pulling up any trees at intercounty underage levels over the years. We won two AI U-21s back in the 80s. We've never won an AI minor championship.

Nothing to do with brains J70, all to do with objectivity about what it is you're trying to achieve.

To the best of my knowledge, no Donegal man has a MacRory Cup medal, and no Monaghan man under the age of 80 has one either.

If this is a debilitating issue for juvenile football in those counties, it's difficult to see how. Between them they've appeared in 9 of the last 15 Ulster Minor finals (if everything in life was equal it would be 6-7 appearances between them).

If it is a debilitating issue in terms of progressing players to senior football, then the 15 Ulster Senior finals they've played in between them (again, all things being equal, they'd have 6-7 appearances between them) over the past 15 years, suggests otherwise.

Why am I focused on the past 15 years? It's perhaps an arbitrary number. But it correlates with the period in which football moved away from being an open battle into heavy tactics. I'd assume a lack of opportunity to practice those tactics at a high level should be more telling now than ever.

When I personally look at this data, it for me empties any argument that the MacRory as a breeding ground for successful / passionate / better footballers, provides tangible advantages to those involved, over those who compete in lower grade schools competitions, or not at all in schools football.

So if this theory can be semi-objectively dismissed, then what is the reason for allowing conglomerates to bastardise the competition?

[Franko]

"Keep it for the big schools" attitude is no different to Leinster Rugby boys and their Schools Cup.

As for whoever made the daft argument that it's ok in clubs, but not in schools, because lads wouldn't really like other schools, really?! And they like other clubs?

It's not "keep it for the big schools". It's "keep it for the schools".

Yet the competition, which is a little over 100 years old, has been won more than 70 times by just five schools, and 94 times by the top nine. The remaining eleven titles are shared between six other schools.

Yet the likes of Magherafelt, St Ronan's, HTC, and St Paul's have all shown in the past decade that the difference between the "original" schools and everyone else can be more than bridged by hard work and a change of culture.

St Michael's have being proving since the start of time that patience is a virtue that will be rewarded at MacRory level.

Also I'd suggest it would be a more honest reflection on affairs if you were to focus the attention of your statistical breakdown of winners to the past 50 years. Prior to that it was a closed shop. Armagh, Cavan and Monaghan have 35 MacRory Cups between them (out of 100). Which suggests dominance. Until you see that it includes a grand total of 2 since 1972.

——

I really don't like the vibe of moral high ground I'm getting from some posters about this.

What is being created here is an Animal Farm type of equality.

There was a genuine sanctity to MacRory football up to this point. Did some schools  find ways and means to enrol students who weren't fit for further education? Of course. They all did. But ultimately every player was always part of a singular, clearly defined institution, each with a defined culture for Gaelic Football.

Should this Donegal experiment prove successful, then what next?

I mean how would you feel if Abbey CBS and St Paul's had a look at their Rannafast campaign this year and decided to join forces for 2026/27 MacRory?

And then what if St Colman's asked to get involved too?

Or if Dungannon, Donaghmore and HTC had a lightbulb moment that they each have 3 outstanding players and if combined would be unbeatable?

Maghera and Magherafelt then bury the hatchet to beat the common enemy.

And what do we end up with then? Well we end up with a smaller number of teams competing at top level "schools" football, and the same 180-190 players who play county minor football, enjoying an almost identical competition except they're representing a different region than their county, and some of their teammates at county become opponents in "regional schools level conglomerates" and vice versa. Meanwhile there's 180-190 lads who would have got MacRory football previously, get to watch their star colleagues playing for "school" as well as county.

Is this implausible? No it's not. Because there's just no sanctity to a competition that was designed for school v school, when schools can randomly and willy nilly merge with each other to create franchises. There is nobody on earth can devise competition rules whereby it's okay for some schools to merge but not others. Nobody.

So take your equality high horse and please ride out of town. There's a wonderful and historic competition being ruined by your well meaning but utterly contemptible attempts to be everything to everybody.

And to repeat my original point. What makes this truly contemptible is that a competition - county minor football - already exists to provide the exact equality that you so readily seek.

Couldn't agree more

[God14]

McRory football is all about playing with your school mates, lads you toiled with for years in the classroom
Local pride, derbies, history, friendships and rivalries

Amalgamations have no place in McRory. If your school isn't big enough for McRory, play Markey football etc

[marty34]

Playing in  a smaller school has one benefit I think.

You'll not get burnt out and fed up with training and matches for 6 or 7 years of your life.

Yes, you'll play matches for your school nd train but not to the same level.

Come U17 through to club senior, there should be an extra bit of hunger and energy. 

[JoG2]

"Keep it for the big schools" attitude is no different to Leinster Rugby boys and their Schools Cup.

As for whoever made the daft argument that it's ok in clubs, but not in schools, because lads wouldn't really like other schools, really?! And they like other clubs?

It's not "keep it for the big schools". It's "keep it for the schools".

Yet the competition, which is a little over 100 years old, has been won more than 70 times by just five schools, and 94 times by the top nine. The remaining eleven titles are shared between six other schools.

Yet the likes of Magherafelt, St Ronan's, HTC, and St Paul's have all shown in the past decade that the difference between the "original" schools and everyone else can be more than bridged by hard work and a change of culture.

St Michael's have being proving since the start of time that patience is a virtue that will be rewarded at MacRory level.

Also I'd suggest it would be a more honest reflection on affairs if you were to focus the attention of your statistical breakdown of winners to the past 50 years. Prior to that it was a closed shop. Armagh, Cavan and Monaghan have 35 MacRory Cups between them (out of 100). Which suggests dominance. Until you see that it includes a grand total of 2 since 1972.

——

I really don't like the vibe of moral high ground I'm getting from some posters about this.

What is being created here is an Animal Farm type of equality.

There was a genuine sanctity to MacRory football up to this point. Did some schools  find ways and means to enrol students who weren't fit for further education? Of course. They all did. But ultimately every player was always part of a singular, clearly defined institution, each with a defined culture for Gaelic Football.

Should this Donegal experiment prove successful, then what next?

I mean how would you feel if Abbey CBS and St Paul's had a look at their Rannafast campaign this year and decided to join forces for 2026/27 MacRory?

And then what if St Colman's asked to get involved too?

Or if Dungannon, Donaghmore and HTC had a lightbulb moment that they each have 3 outstanding players and if combined would be unbeatable?

Maghera and Magherafelt then bury the hatchet to beat the common enemy.

And what do we end up with then? Well we end up with a smaller number of teams competing at top level "schools" football, and the same 180-190 players who play county minor football, enjoying an almost identical competition except they're representing a different region than their county, and some of their teammates at county become opponents in "regional schools level conglomerates" and vice versa. Meanwhile there's 180-190 lads who would have got MacRory football previously, get to watch their star colleagues playing for "school" as well as county.

Is this implausible? No it's not. Because there's just no sanctity to a competition that was designed for school v school, when schools can randomly and willy nilly merge with each other to create franchises. There is nobody on earth can devise competition rules whereby it's okay for some schools to merge but not others. Nobody.

So take your equality high horse and please ride out of town. There's a wonderful and historic competition being ruined by your well meaning but utterly contemptible attempts to be everything to everybody.

And to repeat my original point. What makes this truly contemptible is that a competition - county minor football - already exists to provide the exact equality that you so readily seek.

Couldn't agree more

Did you attend one of the smaller schools?

[J70]

Nothing to do with brains J70, all to do with objectivity about what it is you're trying to achieve.

To the best of my knowledge, no Donegal man has a MacRory Cup medal, and no Monaghan man under the age of 80 has one either.

If this is a debilitating issue for juvenile football in those counties, it's difficult to see how. Between them they've appeared in 9 of the last 15 Ulster Minor finals (if everything in life was equal it would be 6-7 appearances between them).

If it is a debilitating issue in terms of progressing players to senior football, then the 15 Ulster Senior finals they've played in between them (again, all things being equal, they'd have 6-7 appearances between them) over the past 15 years, suggests otherwise.

Why am I focused on the past 15 years? It's perhaps an arbitrary number. But it correlates with the period in which football moved away from being an open battle into heavy tactics. I'd assume a lack of opportunity to practice those tactics at a high level should be more telling now than ever.

When I personally look at this data, it for me empties any argument that the MacRory as a breeding ground for successful / passionate / better footballers, provides tangible advantages to those involved, over those who compete in lower grade schools competitions, or not at all in schools football.

So if this theory can be semi-objectively dismissed, then what is the reason for allowing conglomerates to bastardise the competition?

Why lump Monaghan in with Donegal? Are MacCartans not still regular and competitive participants?

Donegal have appeared in four Ulster minor finals since the millennium, winning three. In that time, Tyrone have won nine and lost four. Derry have won seven and lost four. If you do 2010 on, Tyrone have twice as many final appearances as Donegal, Derry even more. We are not strong at underage.

Regardless, no one said it was debilitating for Donegal football. We're a big enough county that we usually have enough players to be at least somewhat competitive in Ulster at senior level. The idea is to try to improve Donegal football, and every bit of exposure to better players and teams can only help those individual lads in the county who are up to that level. And maybe exposure to these higher standards will help us win some underage Ulster titles more than once a decade and maybe even an AI some day.

But look, if the Ulster GAA community wants to more or less lock Donegal schools out of the premier competition, that's ultimately up to them. Without amalgamation, the only way any Donegal schools ever get to compete is when a single school, about once per generation, happens on a talented group like Abbey VS currently have, or a freak of nature, like Eunans in the mid 2000s with Murphy. But at the moment, the amalgamation pathway is open, and Diver is absolutely correct to see how it does in helping him to raise the standards in the county.

On the bolded comment, is there any data out there on how many MacRory-competing players go on to feature for their counties compared to those who play lesser or no competitions at Ulster level? What do coaches around the province think of the MacRory as a development and proving ground for young players?

[thewobbler]

The reason I lumped in Monaghan is because they're a rural county with similar levels of success in the MacRory Cup to Donegal sides over the past 15 years. Yet they've still won 3 Ulster minors and appeared in 3 other Ulster minor finals. A seeming lack of ability to compete at grade A schools level does not hamper them in producing county level footballers. Nor does it hamper Donegal.... In my opinion.

By the way, St Michael's have shown time and again that a medium-small school can conquer the MacRory, so long as there's a football culture and a little patience. I'm not overly familiar with Donegal schools but I'd be honestly shocked if 3-4 schools in that county aren't significantly bigger than Enniskillen.

[marty34]

Is there not a massive secondary school in Carndonagh?

[JoG2]

Is there not a massive secondary school in Carndonagh?

The community school, their teams would comprise players from which clubs? Are they part of an amalgamation?