Armagh Club football & hurling

Started by holylandsniper, November 09, 2006, 10:44:31 PM

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general_lee

#19215
Quote from: Orchard1 on December 19, 2024, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 19, 2024, 03:27:23 PMI can't say I agree with the Lissummon motion at all.

I think it's an over the top reaction and being a county of mainly small rural clubs (with their small club mentality) has received majority backing.

2nds teams should be allowed into the league & championship structures to find their level over a couple of years. Some like CE & Cross will dip into intermediate, others like Killeavy and Madden will stay near the very bottom.

I've heard enough sob stories about how hard it is to field, how many martyrs there are keeping things ticking over, as if this isn't the case in every single GAA club in the country. Yes bigger clubs may have more volunteers, but they also have more players to cater for. For every player that leaves a small rural club, multiply it x10 for an urban club - it's not really a luxury if you can't provide football for your players and they all leave after minor. At the end of the day the ethos of the GAA is promote our national games and if the best a big club can offer their players is a glorified B league you'll see the same issues arise in no time.


It's not an over the top reaction when it's been brewing over the last number of years.

Nobody is asking you to agree with it. The majority of delegates at the convention last week did & thats all that matters.

And they aren't sob stories - They're real life situations that small clubs find themselves in - I hope to God your own club never falls on hard times so you wont have to experience being a "martyr" for the cause.
It absolutely is over the top. Kneejerk reaction to the say the least. 2nds teams have come and gone the past 10-15 years and the world didn't end. None of them within a hound's growl of even challenging for a JFC title. CE win a junior championship (the second time a 2nd team has won one in 20+ years) and we have motions barring 2nds teams and tales of woe that EVERY GAA club big or small knows all to well.

My own club has had enough hard times to give any other club a run for their money. We even faced one of the 2nds teams this year! We're still ploughing away and we know the only people that can keep us in the right direction are OUR club members and what goes on in OUR club - not what others are doing.

Again you're correct all that matters is what was agreed last week but it still reeks of pettiness under the guise of genuine concern.

statto

Quote from: Orchard1 on December 19, 2024, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: SaffronSports on December 19, 2024, 03:43:57 PMWhen a 2nds team plays in a league, what are the rules in Armagh with regard the number of graded players that they won't be allowed to use?

You have to name 24 - But from past experience I know that more often than not, half of the 24 are made up of players out injured for the year, no longer playing etc. So a pointless exercise a lot of the time.
I had visibility of the Crossmaglen and Clann Eireann 24 named players last year and that generally wasn't the case.  Clann Eireann actually had a lad who was named with the firsts for the league then dropped down to the seconds team for championship when the county men came back and wasn't starting in the knock out stages of intermediate championship for the seconds which shows their strength in depth. 

Armagh18

Quote from: general_lee on December 19, 2024, 03:27:23 PMI can't say I agree with the Lissummon motion at all.

I think it's an over the top reaction and being a county of mainly small rural clubs (with their small club mentality) has received majority backing.

2nds teams should be allowed into the league & championship structures to find their level over a couple of years. Some like CE & Cross will dip into intermediate, others like Killeavy and Madden will stay near the very bottom.

I've heard enough sob stories about how hard it is to field, how many martyrs there are keeping things ticking over, as if this isn't the case in every single GAA club in the country. Yes bigger clubs may have more volunteers, but they also have more players to cater for. For every player that leaves a small rural club, multiply it x10 for an urban club - it's not really a luxury if you can't provide football for your players and they all leave after minor. At the end of the day the ethos of the GAA is promote our national games and if the best a big club can offer their players is a glorified B league you'll see the same issues arise in no time.

Think thats an awfully out of touch comment to make. Agree with Orchard1

general_lee

Not out of touch at all. It's actually quite irrelevant - every club has their struggles including my own. We can barely field at underage (Div3 u14-u18). We've been Junior for much of our history. All things considered we do rightly at senior level but I wouldn't have what other clubs are doing as a barrier or hindrance to us being successful.

SaffronSports

Quote from: Orchard1 on December 19, 2024, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: SaffronSports on December 19, 2024, 03:43:57 PMWhen a 2nds team plays in a league, what are the rules in Armagh with regard the number of graded players that they won't be allowed to use?

You have to name 24 - But from past experience I know that more often than not, half of the 24 are made up of players out injured for the year, no longer playing etc. So a pointless exercise a lot of the time.

I've noticed that one myself in Antrim. Know a team had a lad who lived in another county, was pretty much a full time coach with various teams etc and was down as a graded player. Maybe a slight adjustment could be made that once a player makes X appearances for the team above they are ineligible too regarding of grading.

I think young lads developing will take more playing a match against a junior clubs first team than a reserve match a lot of the time but just think the junior clubs have to be playing against genuine 2nd team players and the other nonsense is put aside.

general_lee

So what teams will be making up this new fangled Junior B championship?

Dromintee II, Silverbridge II, Madden II and?

Armagh18

Quote from: general_lee on December 20, 2024, 08:25:27 AMSo what teams will be making up this new fangled Junior B championship?

Dromintee II, Silverbridge II, Madden II and?
Depends how many actually enter.

Is the junior b championship also going to include teams who finished bottom of their championship groups? I know there was talk before of a competition for those teams.

general_lee

Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2024, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 20, 2024, 08:25:27 AMSo what teams will be making up this new fangled Junior B championship?

Dromintee II, Silverbridge II, Madden II and?
Depends how many actually enter.

Is the junior b championship also going to include teams who finished bottom of their championship groups? I know there was talk before of a competition for those teams.
Well, that's what I'm hinting at.
The motion says nothing other than teams are guaranteed two games and format will be decided based on who enters. So we could potentially be looking at a 3 team Junior B Championship...  ::)

Armagh18

Quote from: general_lee on December 20, 2024, 09:03:18 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2024, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 20, 2024, 08:25:27 AMSo what teams will be making up this new fangled Junior B championship?

Dromintee II, Silverbridge II, Madden II and?
Depends how many actually enter.

Is the junior b championship also going to include teams who finished bottom of their championship groups? I know there was talk before of a competition for those teams.
Well, that's what I'm hinting at.
The motion says nothing other than teams are guaranteed two games and format will be decided based on who enters. So we could potentially be looking at a 3 team Junior B Championship...  ::)
Clann Na Gael?

Think the 4 teams that finish bottom of the championship groups should be included too, likely Killean plus 3.

Cross
Madden
Killeavey
St Peters
Dromintee
Silverbridge
Clan Na Gael?

Any other seconds teams rumoured to be joining? Clann Eireann obviously in intermediate.

general_lee

Cross II & St Peter's II are Division 3A so are guaranteed a place in the JFC for 2025 as they'll make up 2 of the 3 best placed teams.

That leaves Killeavy II and Madden II (if they re-enter a team).

The only club I have seen publicly confirm as entering a 2nds team for 2025 is Dromintee.

Armagh18

Quote from: general_lee on December 20, 2024, 10:11:51 AMCross II & St Peter's II are Division 3A so are guaranteed a place in the JFC for 2025 as they'll make up 2 of the 3 best placed teams.

That leaves Killeavy II and Madden II (if they re-enter a team).

The only club I have seen publicly confirm as entering a 2nds team for 2025 is Dromintee.
I think Silverbridge spoke in favour of Lissummons motion and said they were planning on entering a seconds team.

St Peters seemed to do rightly so would imagine they'll enter again, Madden struggled abit but can see them going again as well.

lurganblue

I have to say, I dont get it. 2nds teams can still enter the junior league, but only the best 3 can compete in the junior championship.  How does that solve any perceived "small" club difficulty with competition and winning things?

I think there seems to be some sort of fear that these 2nds teams will be filled with top quality D1 players. The reality is that they will largely be made up of young lads that the clubs hope to not lose, lads who have never been good enough for the 1st team, and lads who are no longer capable of 1st team.

Armagh18

Quote from: lurganblue on December 20, 2024, 10:47:08 AMI have to say, I dont get it. 2nds teams can still enter the junior league, but only the best 3 can compete in the junior championship.  How does that solve any perceived "small" club difficulty with competition and winning things?

I think there seems to be some sort of fear that these 2nds teams will be filled with top quality D1 players. The reality is that they will largely be made up of young lads that the clubs hope to not lose, lads who have never been good enough for the 1st team, and lads who are no longer capable of 1st team.
Seen enough of Clann Eireann to know that is simply not true.

Long term aim is to get them out of the championship completely but that will take time.

lurganblue

Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2024, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on December 20, 2024, 10:47:08 AMI have to say, I dont get it. 2nds teams can still enter the junior league, but only the best 3 can compete in the junior championship.  How does that solve any perceived "small" club difficulty with competition and winning things?

I think there seems to be some sort of fear that these 2nds teams will be filled with top quality D1 players. The reality is that they will largely be made up of young lads that the clubs hope to not lose, lads who have never been good enough for the 1st team, and lads who are no longer capable of 1st team.
Seen enough of Clann Eireann to know that is simply not true.

Long term aim is to get them out of the championship completely but that will take time.

I'd say that they are an anomaly.

I could understand totally removing them more, albeit I wouldnt agree with it considering the shambles of reserve football.

general_lee

Clann Éireann are a prime example of why 2nds teams should be allowed to play in the all county leagues. Yes they might be an anomaly with a massive panel but they've another minor championship team coming through and need to provide their players with competitive football.

Someone has already mentioned it but they had at least one player that played league with the senior team that couldn't get a game come championship for the 2nds.