Armagh Club football & hurling

[ClubScene13]

Player retention must be an issue to not be able to play a premier reserve league?

In Tyrone last year you're looking at double headers on primarily Friday nights and by a quick look at our website it appears 80% of games were played.

In a 15 game season that's 11 or 12 matches on avg. Might be some cricket scores as well but usually not too bad, only in a top 6 v bottom 4 scenario perhaps.

There was a right slap conceded in the last 2 weeks of the season and some games postponed that ended up never being played, but vast majority of reserve league goes to plan most years.

Intermediate and junior reserve league gets played in same format but there is definitely more games conceded for obvious reasons.

[Mick Bustin]

In Tyrone last year you're looking at double headers on primarily Friday nights and by a quick look at our website it appears 80% of games were played.

In a 15 game season that's 11 or 12 matches on avg. Might be some cricket scores as well but usually not too bad, only in a top 6 v bottom 4 scenario perhaps.

There was a right slap conceded in the last 2 weeks of the season and some games postponed that ended up never being played, but vast majority of reserve league goes to plan most years.

Intermediate and junior reserve league gets played in same format but there is definitely more games conceded for obvious reasons.

I've looked at the Tyrone Reserve League and it looks to exhibit the exact same symptoms as Armagh - some teams pay lip service for one reason or another while other teams consistently field and fulfill fixtures. Some clubs, despite their Division 1 status, don't have the numbers or resources to compete with their peers while others are more than capable.

Player retention must be an issue to not be able to play a premier reserve league?

Don't think that's an issue, I can't imagine Clann Eireann, Crossmaglen or even Killeavy wanting to pull their teams from Intermediate B, Junior A and Junior B to play in a "premier reserve league" that may or may not prove successful.

[ClubScene13]

That's absolute bollox - we made it up to 10 days left in the league season last year and Eglish were the only club to concede more than one game (3)? Now you have Killyclogher showing up as only playing 11 of their 15 games - that's because they won Reserve championship and fixtures kept being postponed which ultimately the county board never rescheduled. I can see why, a random reserve league game is not really top priority when most clubs have got their fill with a good 12-15 games. Total bollox on lip service, the games are played.

Must be an issue though if half the senior clubs can't get a team together to play a reserve game

[Mick Bustin]

That's absolute bollox - we made it up to 10 days left in the league season last year and Eglish were the only club to concede more than one game (3)? Now you have Killyclogher showing up as only playing 11 of their 15 games - that's because they won Reserve championship and fixtures kept being postponed which ultimately the county board never rescheduled. I can see why, a random reserve league game is not really top priority when most clubs have got their fill with a good 12-15 games. Total bollox on lip service, the games are played.

Must be an issue though if half the senior clubs can't get a team together to play a reserve game

I have highlighted the absolute definition of lip service. Add in a few cricket scores, another few DNFs and you've got a carbon copy of the Armagh reserve leagues.

As far as I am aware, all senior clubs in Armagh fielded either a reserve team, a 2nds team or both. The issue is some clubs field a team for the sake of fielding, others have to take it a bit more serious.

[Armagh18]

Would amalgamations work for reserve teams? Most senior clubs would probably have at least few lads that are decent but not getting games for the first team, but then maybe have to drag lads out of the house to make up numbers to fulfil a reserve fixture. If you joined a couple of teams you'd leave the reserve league more competitive. Obviously leave Cross/Clann Eireann on their own.

Would it work?

[tonto1888]

nor is it the fault of the CEs or Cross of this world

No it's not, and yet I see them both doing very well out of the current arrangement.

which isnt a problem

[Orchard1]

To clairfy some of the myths surrouding the Lissummon motion:

The motion reads as follows:

Amend – Football League Regulation 4
Championship Format

Junior Football Championship shall have no more than 16 teams. All Junior "first" teams will automatically qualify, along with the highest finishing placed 2nd teams, based on the results at the conclusion of the Junior League until the 16 teams are reached.

Any Club 2nd team who doesn't qualify for the Junior Football Championship, will qualify to play in the Junior B Football Championship, the format will be decided based on entries. Teams will be guaranteed at least 2 games.


The motion passed at the convention last week, with a number of senior clubs speaking out to support, as well as the ccc. One of the clubs who spoke in support was Silverbridge, who are putting in a seconds team this year themselves. Their aim is to give boys meaningful fixtures that the reserve league/championship is currently not providing. The Lissummon motion does not take football away from anyone. All seconds teams will be competing in the Junior league. It only comes in to play for Championship where the number of seconds teams competing in the Junior championship will be limited to 3 as the 13 authentic Junior clubs will take their positions first. A Junior B/Junior Shield championship will be provided for all those seconds teams remaining - Again providing competitive fixtures.

Crossmaglen spoke against the motion and also said it would be taking football away from boys. Again incorrect. Crossmaglen will be competing in Junior A this year. By default they will be competing in the Junior championship because they will finish higher in the leagues than any of the seconds teams playing in Junior B. The same situation for St. Peters seconds.

Clann Eireann seconds aren't affected either as they already have a position in the intermediate championship.

Teams like Lissummon, Clady, Dorsey etc are scrambling from year to year to make sure a panel of 20 players is put in place for the start of each season. One injury to a key player, one more emigration to Australia, one more retirement of a club stalwart can seriously impact a small rural club. The additional panel numbers simply aren't there to absorb that impact.

Put these boys out against a seconds team and let them suffer a 10 plus point defeat & see how easily morale is depleted.

We admire the likes of Clann Eireann and only wish we had the headache of having too many numbers and not enough jerseys. But where these urban clubs are getting progressively stronger and growing in size, the rural clubs are becoming increasingly depleted year after year.

Until you've served on a committee of a small rural club in Junior B, you genuinely can have no idea how hard it is to keep the doors open & get enough boys in jerseys to fulfil fixtures week on week. We work as hard to provide as much as any other club. We're just doing it with a lot less people & a lot less facilities than some of our larger counterparts. I certainly don't think this can be defined as "small club mentality"

The Lissummon motion doesn't take football away from anyone. It just leaves the playing field in the junior championship slightly less of an uphill battle.

The general feeling of the junior clubs who took part in the round table discussion was that the end goal is for a seperate league & championship for seconds teams would be established. We realise that this cannot happen overnight as it would require an overhaul of the current footballing structures/reserve football etc.

But the discussion at the convention certainly opened the doors for that & the ccc awknowledged that they had a large part to play in the failings of the reserve competitions.

Hopefully the next year will see some groundwork from the ccc on the matter.

[ClubScene13]

They were postponed as reserve championship was ongoing midweek and as KC kept winning, their reserve league games were getting postponed. Wasn't many DNF's as I've already said - but you'd know more than me.

Reading that motion by Lissummon I don't know how you can argue with it looks bang on to me

[general_lee]

I can't say I agree with the Lissummon motion at all.

I think it's an over the top reaction and being a county of mainly small rural clubs (with their small club mentality) has received majority backing.

2nds teams should be allowed into the league & championship structures to find their level over a couple of years. Some like CE & Cross will dip into intermediate, others like Killeavy and Madden will stay near the very bottom.

I've heard enough sob stories about how hard it is to field, how many martyrs there are keeping things ticking over, as if this isn't the case in every single GAA club in the country. Yes bigger clubs may have more volunteers, but they also have more players to cater for. For every player that leaves a small rural club, multiply it x10 for an urban club - it's not really a luxury if you can't provide football for your players and they all leave after minor. At the end of the day the ethos of the GAA is promote our national games and if the best a big club can offer their players is a glorified B league you'll see the same issues arise in no time.

[SaffronSports]

When a 2nds team plays in a league, what are the rules in Armagh with regard the number of graded players that they won't be allowed to use?

[general_lee]

When a 2nds team plays in a league, what are the rules in Armagh with regard the number of graded players that they won't be allowed to use?

I think you've to name 24 players that can't play 2nds.

[SaffronSports]

That's a good lot to be fair. There's a few tournaments in Antrim where graded players aren't allowed into and I think it might be 12.

[Armagh18]

When a 2nds team plays in a league, what are the rules in Armagh with regard the number of graded players that they won't be allowed to use?

I think you've to name 24 players that can't play 2nds.

Yeah think thats it.

Still leaves Clann Eireann with an awful pile of talent outside that 24 who can dip in and out of either team.

We need to get them Lurgan boys back on the bucky or they'll takeover altogether.

[Orchard1]

I can't say I agree with the Lissummon motion at all.

I think it's an over the top reaction and being a county of mainly small rural clubs (with their small club mentality) has received majority backing.

2nds teams should be allowed into the league & championship structures to find their level over a couple of years. Some like CE & Cross will dip into intermediate, others like Killeavy and Madden will stay near the very bottom.

I've heard enough sob stories about how hard it is to field, how many martyrs there are keeping things ticking over, as if this isn't the case in every single GAA club in the country. Yes bigger clubs may have more volunteers, but they also have more players to cater for. For every player that leaves a small rural club, multiply it x10 for an urban club - it's not really a luxury if you can't provide football for your players and they all leave after minor. At the end of the day the ethos of the GAA is promote our national games and if the best a big club can offer their players is a glorified B league you'll see the same issues arise in no time.

It's not an over the top reaction when it's been brewing over the last number of years.

Nobody is asking you to agree with it. The majority of delegates at the convention last week did & thats all that matters.

And they aren't sob stories - They're real life situations that small clubs find themselves in - I hope to God your own club never falls on hard times so you wont have to experience being a "martyr" for the cause.

[Orchard1]

When a 2nds team plays in a league, what are the rules in Armagh with regard the number of graded players that they won't be allowed to use?

You have to name 24 - But from past experience I know that more often than not, half of the 24 are made up of players out injured for the year, no longer playing etc. So a pointless exercise a lot of the time.