The UK Budget Oct 2024.... are farmers not fuming?

[screenexile]

Labour have looked at this through accounting glasses and have not allowed for the connection we have with the land. If HMRC came looking inheritance tax of me I would do time before I would sell one sq.ft of it to give it to them.
My father took over this ground from his father which was all covered in scrub and rushes. My father spent his 30's & 40's getting it into the shape it is in today and there is not a hope in hell I will be letting it go
People need to understand a lot of us in the beef & sheep sector work full time jobs as well and we pay our taxes like everyone else. We pay PAYEE, we pay our rates we keep the local economy going by buying local for the running of the farm. We hire contractors to cut our silage and pay them what they are owed.
Its bloody hard work and in my own case I have 4 young children and a wife to look after. You cant make someone farm it has to be in you to do it. I fatten 50 cattle a year and have 50 sheep lambing at the end of February and let me tell you I might as well have a couple of hundred with the work & time it takes. Why do I do it? I do it because it gives me a sense of purpose, when you see a field of new born lambs running about in spring time there is nothing like it. When you get all the silage in an all is ready for the winter its something you can say to yourself "that was a job well done".
I am a small farmer in Tyrone who enjoys farming and in all my years farming I can say that if I break even at the end of the financial year I am happy (there have been plenty of losses).
The small bit of ground that makes up our farm will never make me a living but I hope it will give the same rollercoaster ride it gives me to whichever of my kids decide to take it on and I can only do my bit for as long as I'm still breathing.

I'm not sure why Labour is doing this as the rich business men buying up land will not be affected by this as they have the best advisors helping them avoid the tax owed but the small man will pay.
They need to roll this back or there will be trouble, not so much over here because we are a divided community but England could be in trouble.

Rant over

You only pay tax on the value OVER £3m though...

It's a small bit like the yanks always voting against tax rises for the rich because some day they hope to be themselves!

[Milltown Row2]

One's saying they won't pay tax but complain about the health service

Bonkers

[AustinPowers]

One's saying they won't pay tax but complain about the health service

Bonkers

It's not  the lack of tax that  has the health service f××ked.  If we all paid twice as much tax  , it would  still be f××ked.

[Armagh18]

One's saying they won't pay tax but complain about the health service

Bonkers

It's not  the lack of tax that  has the health service f××ked.  If we all paid twice as much tax  , it would  still be f××ked.

Spot on.

We're all paying more than enough tax. Look at the amount being wasted.

[Armagh18]

A lot of talk about farmers earning low incomes.  I wonder to what extent do they operate with cash, and to what extent do they spend big on machinery, jeeps etc rather than give it to the tax man.  Equals low income on paper, but are they actually doing alright?

Odd bit would be cash alright but at the end of the day your milk cheque isn't in cash, marts/factories aren't going to be giving it out either.

As for the jeeps/machinery, if its being bought it's being used, yeah it's a bonus to be able to write off a tractor or whatever but it still has to be paid for and that money is hard earned.

[Armagh18]

Labour have looked at this through accounting glasses and have not allowed for the connection we have with the land. If HMRC came looking inheritance tax of me I would do time before I would sell one sq.ft of it to give it to them.
My father took over this ground from his father which was all covered in scrub and rushes. My father spent his 30's & 40's getting it into the shape it is in today and there is not a hope in hell I will be letting it go
People need to understand a lot of us in the beef & sheep sector work full time jobs as well and we pay our taxes like everyone else. We pay PAYEE, we pay our rates we keep the local economy going by buying local for the running of the farm. We hire contractors to cut our silage and pay them what they are owed.
Its bloody hard work and in my own case I have 4 young children and a wife to look after. You cant make someone farm it has to be in you to do it. I fatten 50 cattle a year and have 50 sheep lambing at the end of February and let me tell you I might as well have a couple of hundred with the work & time it takes. Why do I do it? I do it because it gives me a sense of purpose, when you see a field of new born lambs running about in spring time there is nothing like it. When you get all the silage in an all is ready for the winter its something you can say to yourself "that was a job well done".
I am a small farmer in Tyrone who enjoys farming and in all my years farming I can say that if I break even at the end of the financial year I am happy (there have been plenty of losses).
The small bit of ground that makes up our farm will never make me a living but I hope it will give the same rollercoaster ride it gives me to whichever of my kids decide to take it on and I can only do my bit for as long as I'm still breathing.

I'm not sure why Labour is doing this as the rich business men buying up land will not be affected by this as they have the best advisors helping them avoid the tax owed but the small man will pay.
They need to roll this back or there will be trouble, not so much over here because we are a divided community but England could be in trouble.

Rant over
 

Well said.

[Hereiam]

Labour have looked at this through accounting glasses and have not allowed for the connection we have with the land. If HMRC came looking inheritance tax of me I would do time before I would sell one sq.ft of it to give it to them.
My father took over this ground from his father which was all covered in scrub and rushes. My father spent his 30's & 40's getting it into the shape it is in today and there is not a hope in hell I will be letting it go
People need to understand a lot of us in the beef & sheep sector work full time jobs as well and we pay our taxes like everyone else. We pay PAYEE, we pay our rates we keep the local economy going by buying local for the running of the farm. We hire contractors to cut our silage and pay them what they are owed.
Its bloody hard work and in my own case I have 4 young children and a wife to look after. You cant make someone farm it has to be in you to do it. I fatten 50 cattle a year and have 50 sheep lambing at the end of February and let me tell you I might as well have a couple of hundred with the work & time it takes. Why do I do it? I do it because it gives me a sense of purpose, when you see a field of new born lambs running about in spring time there is nothing like it. When you get all the silage in an all is ready for the winter its something you can say to yourself "that was a job well done".
I am a small farmer in Tyrone who enjoys farming and in all my years farming I can say that if I break even at the end of the financial year I am happy (there have been plenty of losses).
The small bit of ground that makes up our farm will never make me a living but I hope it will give the same rollercoaster ride it gives me to whichever of my kids decide to take it on and I can only do my bit for as long as I'm still breathing.

I'm not sure why Labour is doing this as the rich business men buying up land will not be affected by this as they have the best advisors helping them avoid the tax owed but the small man will pay.
They need to roll this back or there will be trouble, not so much over here because we are a divided community but England could be in trouble.

Rant over

That's a good insight, fair play.  But do you really not make a turn at it?  The farmers I know tell me prices are good at the moment?

Prices are better than what they were, but input prices have rocketed this last couple of years and on top of that you get a bad summer this year when the grass growth slowed which means having to feed more meal to the cattle as the quality of the grass wasn't great. The weather is completely out of our control so its unfortunate it had to happen this year when prices are better and we have no idea where they will be next year as a flood of beef from Brazil or where ever could decimate prices as the brits are hell bent on taking in imported meat to keep a lid on food prices.

[trueblue1234]

No sympathy for people earning millions paying more tax, who got out of paying tax that the average earner has to pay

They'll get not much sympathy from Joe Public either

The farm can be worth a million but be earning nothing. Lots of ordinary farmers impacted by this. Not just the Jeremy Clarksons of the world.

How many is lots?

Unless it's changed it was originally anything worth £1m.

Agricultural land at roughly 10k per acre.

Any farm with 100 acres plus. And that's just the land value. The majority of farms on the mainland would be impacted I'd guess.

If its 3m with marriage etc as your article above suggests it would eliminate most of those farms and make it less of an issue.

The figures in the article above appear to be inherited per year.

There are definitely multiple times more than 500 farms worth 1m. And multiple times more than 37 farms worth 5m plus.

10k an acre??

Hearing of it going for 3 times that locally. (Mostly by c***ts that will never farm it)

Not average farmland. Average price bout £10-11k.

[Sportacus]

Labour have looked at this through accounting glasses and have not allowed for the connection we have with the land. If HMRC came looking inheritance tax of me I would do time before I would sell one sq.ft of it to give it to them.
My father took over this ground from his father which was all covered in scrub and rushes. My father spent his 30's & 40's getting it into the shape it is in today and there is not a hope in hell I will be letting it go
People need to understand a lot of us in the beef & sheep sector work full time jobs as well and we pay our taxes like everyone else. We pay PAYEE, we pay our rates we keep the local economy going by buying local for the running of the farm. We hire contractors to cut our silage and pay them what they are owed.
Its bloody hard work and in my own case I have 4 young children and a wife to look after. You cant make someone farm it has to be in you to do it. I fatten 50 cattle a year and have 50 sheep lambing at the end of February and let me tell you I might as well have a couple of hundred with the work & time it takes. Why do I do it? I do it because it gives me a sense of purpose, when you see a field of new born lambs running about in spring time there is nothing like it. When you get all the silage in an all is ready for the winter its something you can say to yourself "that was a job well done".
I am a small farmer in Tyrone who enjoys farming and in all my years farming I can say that if I break even at the end of the financial year I am happy (there have been plenty of losses).
The small bit of ground that makes up our farm will never make me a living but I hope it will give the same rollercoaster ride it gives me to whichever of my kids decide to take it on and I can only do my bit for as long as I'm still breathing.

I'm not sure why Labour is doing this as the rich business men buying up land will not be affected by this as they have the best advisors helping them avoid the tax owed but the small man will pay.
They need to roll this back or there will be trouble, not so much over here because we are a divided community but England could be in trouble.

Rant over

That's a good insight, fair play.  But do you really not make a turn at it?  The farmers I know tell me prices are good at the moment?

Prices are better than what they were, but input prices have rocketed this last couple of years and on top of that you get a bad summer this year when the grass growth slowed which means having to feed more meal to the cattle as the quality of the grass wasn't great. The weather is completely out of our control so its unfortunate it had to happen this year when prices are better and we have no idea where they will be next year as a flood of beef from Brazil or where ever could decimate prices as the brits are hell bent on taking in imported meat to keep a lid on food prices.

Well I wish you well, we all need good food.  And at the end of the day in my simple head that's why farmers as small businesses should be treated a wee bit differently.  The obvious compromise to my mind is to exempt active farmers. 

[Hereiam]

One's saying they won't pay tax but complain about the health service

Bonkers

It's not  the lack of tax that  has the health service f××ked.  If we all paid twice as much tax  , it would  still be f××ked.

Spot on.

We're all paying more than enough tax. Look at the amount being wasted.

How much was wasted during COVID by them shower of wasters in Westminster, did they ever recover the money given out to that Michelle Mone blade and the countless others.

[APM]

Labour have looked at this through accounting glasses and have not allowed for the connection we have with the land. If HMRC came looking inheritance tax of me I would do time before I would sell one sq.ft of it to give it to them.
My father took over this ground from his father which was all covered in scrub and rushes. My father spent his 30's & 40's getting it into the shape it is in today and there is not a hope in hell I will be letting it go
People need to understand a lot of us in the beef & sheep sector work full time jobs as well and we pay our taxes like everyone else. We pay PAYEE, we pay our rates we keep the local economy going by buying local for the running of the farm. We hire contractors to cut our silage and pay them what they are owed.
Its bloody hard work and in my own case I have 4 young children and a wife to look after. You cant make someone farm it has to be in you to do it. I fatten 50 cattle a year and have 50 sheep lambing at the end of February and let me tell you I might as well have a couple of hundred with the work & time it takes. Why do I do it? I do it because it gives me a sense of purpose, when you see a field of new born lambs running about in spring time there is nothing like it. When you get all the silage in an all is ready for the winter its something you can say to yourself "that was a job well done".
I am a small farmer in Tyrone who enjoys farming and in all my years farming I can say that if I break even at the end of the financial year I am happy (there have been plenty of losses).
The small bit of ground that makes up our farm will never make me a living but I hope it will give the same rollercoaster ride it gives me to whichever of my kids decide to take it on and I can only do my bit for as long as I'm still breathing.

I'm not sure why Labour is doing this as the rich business men buying up land will not be affected by this as they have the best advisors helping them avoid the tax owed but the small man will pay.
They need to roll this back or there will be trouble, not so much over here because we are a divided community but England could be in trouble.

Rant over

I think that's spot on

That's good but why should I pay tax and you don't?

I don't think you're making any attempt to understand. Family owned farmers' land is a unique asset and family farming is a system to be cherished. When family land is sold to pay tax bills it will be bought by business-men or investors, not other farmers.

Labour don't really get farmers and there are very few farming votes for them in England.

Genuine family farm land does not translate to real wealth as there is no intention to sell it and it is probably the lowest yielding asset you can own.

That's the bit the townies don't get.🫣 Raising more from Capital Gains Tax on the sale of inherited land or sites would be a more sensible approach. [/quote]

[trileacman]

One's saying they won't pay tax but complain about the health service

Bonkers

And if the government came out with a tax in the morning that you thought was unfair you wouldn't protest against it because "you complain about the health service"?

What kind of work are you in if you mind me asking?

[Wildweasel74]

Always seen Inheritance tax a sneaky 2nd govt tax, as that money will already have been taxed previous. They do anything on the common man, to stick the arm in, while letting big corporations away with blue murder.

[trileacman]

They paid this tax before 84, so it's not like they haven't done this before

People complaining about the services they get, but no one is willing to actually pay for it, I'm not sure where the money comes from to give people what they want.

And do you have an idea of land values in 1984? Probably less than £1000 per acre. So land values have increased by 1000% or more.

[Armagh18]

Labour have looked at this through accounting glasses and have not allowed for the connection we have with the land. If HMRC came looking inheritance tax of me I would do time before I would sell one sq.ft of it to give it to them.
My father took over this ground from his father which was all covered in scrub and rushes. My father spent his 30's & 40's getting it into the shape it is in today and there is not a hope in hell I will be letting it go
People need to understand a lot of us in the beef & sheep sector work full time jobs as well and we pay our taxes like everyone else. We pay PAYEE, we pay our rates we keep the local economy going by buying local for the running of the farm. We hire contractors to cut our silage and pay them what they are owed.
Its bloody hard work and in my own case I have 4 young children and a wife to look after. You cant make someone farm it has to be in you to do it. I fatten 50 cattle a year and have 50 sheep lambing at the end of February and let me tell you I might as well have a couple of hundred with the work & time it takes. Why do I do it? I do it because it gives me a sense of purpose, when you see a field of new born lambs running about in spring time there is nothing like it. When you get all the silage in an all is ready for the winter its something you can say to yourself "that was a job well done".
I am a small farmer in Tyrone who enjoys farming and in all my years farming I can say that if I break even at the end of the financial year I am happy (there have been plenty of losses).
The small bit of ground that makes up our farm will never make me a living but I hope it will give the same rollercoaster ride it gives me to whichever of my kids decide to take it on and I can only do my bit for as long as I'm still breathing.

I'm not sure why Labour is doing this as the rich business men buying up land will not be affected by this as they have the best advisors helping them avoid the tax owed but the small man will pay.
They need to roll this back or there will be trouble, not so much over here because we are a divided community but England could be in trouble.

Rant over

I think that's spot on

That's good but why should I pay tax and you don't?

I don't think you're making any attempt to understand. Family owned farmers' land is a unique asset and family farming is a system to be cherished. When family land is sold to pay tax bills it will be bought by business-men or investors, not other farmers.

Labour don't really get farmers and there are very few farming votes for them in England.

Genuine family farm land does not translate to real wealth as there is no intention to sell it and it is probably the lowest yielding asset you can own.

That's the bit the townies don't get.🫣 Raising more from Capital Gains Tax on the sale of inherited land or sites would be a more sensible approach.

[/quote] Yeah would agree with that. If the children have no interest in farming the land and are selling it then should pay their fair share. If they're taking on to farm it then let them be