Down Club Hurling & Football

[Nanderson]

St Michael's magherlin is likely our most westerly club in down.

St John Bosco's pitch actually is

Glenn is second but only marginally, to Shamrocks/Pairc Esler.

Ballyvarley must be close too.

Correct, they'd be next after Shamrocks.

Interestingly, Aghaderg/Ballyvarley are not as west as Pairc Esler, but further west than Mitchels pitch, which is only metres away from Pairc Esler in a South East direction

And for Ballela being known as a west down club - Clanna na Banna, Tullylish, St Michaels, Annaclone and Drumgath are all further west. Don't think I missed anyone. There's a big area with not many sports grounds at all really

Order from west to east:

Bosco
Glenn
Shamrocks
Aghaderg/Ballyvarley
Mitchels (inactive)
Tullylish
Ballyholland
Saval
Clann na Banna
St Michaels
Burren
Warrenpoint
Mayobridge
Drumgath
Rostrevor
Annaclone
Ballela

Had to check the Saval/ Clann na Banna one. That one surprised me.

Rostrevor, Burren, and the Point being further west than Ballela also a surprise.

Learn something new every day.

Just to add a further point, three of the South Down clubs, Ballymartin, Longstone and Glasdrumman all sit geographically further east than Kilcoo, Liatroim and Dromara, with the latter two south clubs also further east than Castlewellan. However no complaints from me as they do also justify being called a 'South' club.

Does anyone know why it was separated as south and east rather than North/South which would make more sense. For example An Riocht travelling to play the most southern 'East Down' club would be Bryansford and is about 20/25 mins away whereas travelling to the most northern 'south down' club would be magherlin in lurgan which is over an hour away

[Splash]

It's only on here I've ever heard of the Ards clubs considered as being East Down.

Geographically yes, but when there was an East Down and South Down board (there very well may still be) but there was never any representation on the East Down board from the Ards clubs.

I think we do compete in the East Down Scór though, but that's only for the young wans wanting to do a bit of buck-leppin over the winter.

At underage hurling back in the 90s you boyos weren't invited into the east down league either. You must have just played each other. Don't think there was many years of 2 leagues though, teams started struggling with numbers after that, barely enough for 1 league outside the ards for a while.

In the hurling world, though, there is typically a different mindset.

It is essentially the Ards, and South Down (or across the water as we are fondly referred to by lads from the peninsula ).

I.e, South Down used to compete in the national league. Was basically anybody in Down, bar the Ards.

Players from Liatroim could play for South Down, despite the fact in football terms they are East Down.

Think the whole 'South Down' thing has fallen somewhat out of fashion with the emergence of Bredagh as a senior force. You can get away with calling Kilclief south down. Harder to justify calling Bredagh South Down when they're an hour drive north of Portaferry. Perhaps need to find a new way to describe these clubs considering a third of the teams in the Senior Championship next year will be further north than the Ards...

This is why Liatroim are talked about as a team from South Down when discussing the SHC. Also why Ballyvarley and Ballela are talked about as being South Down clubs despite being further north than most other clubs in South Down.

I would imagine when yous were playing the Ardsmen were either playing amongst themselves or up in Antrim, Clonian.

[Splash]

St Michael's magherlin is likely our most westerly club in down.

St John Bosco's pitch actually is

Glenn is second but only marginally, to Shamrocks/Pairc Esler.

Ballyvarley must be close too.

Correct, they'd be next after Shamrocks.

Interestingly, Aghaderg/Ballyvarley are not as west as Pairc Esler, but further west than Mitchels pitch, which is only metres away from Pairc Esler in a South East direction

And for Ballela being known as a west down club - Clanna na Banna, Tullylish, St Michaels, Annaclone and Drumgath are all further west. Don't think I missed anyone. There's a big area with not many sports grounds at all really

Order from west to east:

Bosco
Glenn
Shamrocks
Aghaderg/Ballyvarley
Mitchels (inactive)
Tullylish
Ballyholland
Saval
Clann na Banna
St Michaels
Burren
Warrenpoint
Mayobridge
Drumgath
Rostrevor
Annaclone
Ballela

Had to check the Saval/ Clann na Banna one. That one surprised me.

Rostrevor, Burren, and the Point being further west than Ballela also a surprise.

Learn something new every day.

Just to add a further point, three of the South Down clubs, Ballymartin, Longstone and Glasdrumman all sit geographically further east than Kilcoo, Liatroim and Dromara, with the latter two south clubs also further east than Castlewellan. However no complaints from me as they do also justify being called a 'South' club.

Does anyone know why it was separated as south and east rather than North/South which would make more sense. For example An Riocht travelling to play the most southern 'East Down' club would be Bryansford and is about 20/25 mins away whereas travelling to the most northern 'south down' club would be magherlin in lurgan which is over an hour away

I would assume, and this is pure speculation, that it is due to the lack of clubs in North Down.

If you classified clubs as either north v south, you would end up with 90% of clubs in South Down.

I have learnt plenty of quiz answers here today, TakeTheMark.    Fair play.

[manwithnoplan]

didnt know that about them being possibly only team to win 2 in a row , is there then a reason why all counties are not adopting the tyrone method of leagues and championship ?

The Tyrone SFC format of straight knockout football has led to some great games to watch over the years, it might lead to a few more entertaining games in Down but perhaps it would still end up being the same teams in the final anyway as Kilcoo are relentless, and you've a couple of others in the next bracket. A more cynical view is that there might be more money to be made through having more games and a back door system, or group formats as some counties have.

[ardtole]

I see some of the league fixtures for div 1 & 2 have been released yesterday. Can't find anything for div 3. After only having 3 home games last year, do we get 4 home games this year? Or is it the luck of the draw?

[johnnycool]

It's only on here I've ever heard of the Ards clubs considered as being East Down.

Geographically yes, but when there was an East Down and South Down board (there very well may still be) but there was never any representation on the East Down board from the Ards clubs.

I think we do compete in the East Down Scór though, but that's only for the young wans wanting to do a bit of buck-leppin over the winter.

At underage hurling back in the 90s you boyos weren't invited into the east down league either. You must have just played each other. Don't think there was many years of 2 leagues though, teams started struggling with numbers after that, barely enough for 1 league outside the ards for a while.

At underage we played each other ad nauseum, probably a dozen times a year and then at that time almost all the locals in the Ards went to St Columba's so you were sick, sore and tired of the sight of each other!!!

This East Down, South Down thing is a football construct, I'd never heard of it until I joined this forum, but I suppose there may well still be the East and South Down boards, which I always believed were purely for underage football, are they still a thing?

[supersub]

didnt know that about them being possibly only team to win 2 in a row , is there then a reason why all counties are not adopting the tyrone method of leagues and championship ?

The Tyrone SFC format of straight knockout football has led to some great games to watch over the years, it might lead to a few more entertaining games in Down but perhaps it would still end up being the same teams in the final anyway as Kilcoo are relentless, and you've a couple of others in the next bracket. A more cynical view is that there might be more money to be made through having more games and a back door system, or group formats as some counties have.

A realistic view is the current championship format is better than straight knockout. What are the advantages of straight knockout? If you think Kilcoo would have won any fewer than they have in the last decade or so, you are mistaken. Current format is far better for players who are asked a hell of a lot more in terms of commitment than yesteryear at club level.

[thewobbler]

didnt know that about them being possibly only team to win 2 in a row , is there then a reason why all counties are not adopting the tyrone method of leagues and championship ?

The Tyrone SFC format of straight knockout football has led to some great games to watch over the years, it might lead to a few more entertaining games in Down but perhaps it would still end up being the same teams in the final anyway as Kilcoo are relentless, and you've a couple of others in the next bracket. A more cynical view is that there might be more money to be made through having more games and a back door system, or group formats as some counties have.

A realistic view is the current championship format is better than straight knockout. What are the advantages of straight knockout? If you think Kilcoo would have won any fewer than they have in the last decade or so, you are mistaken. Current format is far better for players who are asked a hell of a lot more in terms of commitment than yesteryear at club level.

Advantages of straight knock out:

1. If there is a team that's a cert to win it, it moves the process along quicker. Why drag it out?

2. If another team happens to have a day in million and beats the team that cannot be beaten, it changes the entire course of the championship. No matter when it happens.

—-

Why any senior footballer would want to drag out a championship that they cannot win is beyond me.

How any senior footballer could believe that playing in a game in which the result doesn't matter, is a championship game, is beyond me.

It's just more of the bluffery and nonsense that pervades senior club football in Down

[thewobbler]

It is not acceptable to give a player one championship game in a year given the time and effort they put in for many months before it. They must get two.
I smile at that thought process. What a massive difference and must make it all worth it.

Honestly, I just don't get this.

Here was our Championship year.

1. R1 against Loughinisland was a proper championship match with both teams trying to win, and the difference in the teams was the Blues getting on top at midfield in the final quarter.

2. R2 against Saval was a waste of time for everyone involved. Ballyholland would have won it had they spent the week drinking.

3. R3 against Longstone was a waste of time for everyone involved. Ballyholland would have won it has they spent the week drinking.

4. QF against Burren was a waste of time for everyone involved. Burren would have won it had they spent the week drinking.


R2 felt like a friendly. R3 felt like an end-of-season league game dead rubber. QF felt like there was a league between the sides and the result was inevitable.


Please don't try to tell me that those last 3 matches were championship standard, championship audiences, championship intensity, championship buzz.

So when you claim it's not acceptable to give players just one championship game a year, I don't honestly believe you and me have the same understanding of what championship football is. Once you see the label, you're happy. Unless I see the product, I'm not.

[thewobbler]

I think you've misunderstood my post. That might be on me.

Anyway, I agree with you.

Ah you're right, I read you inside out.

My apologies.

f**k the back door.

[Gaelforce123]

100% agree. This 'everyone deserves two games after they have prepared for months' narrative is nonsense. The championship started within 2-3 weeks of leagues finishing, there is not the 4-5 week gap there used to be between competition.

When straight knock out is there, everyone wants to see every game. The games have much higher attendances, better atmospheres and more potential for upsets. League allows games, championship should be knockout football.... Everyone enjoys ulster club championship because its do or
Die... much better games, if it had a back door some games would lose their profile. I think players should be asked on this... 

[manwithnoplan]

didnt know that about them being possibly only team to win 2 in a row , is there then a reason why all counties are not adopting the tyrone method of leagues and championship ?

The Tyrone SFC format of straight knockout football has led to some great games to watch over the years, it might lead to a few more entertaining games in Down but perhaps it would still end up being the same teams in the final anyway as Kilcoo are relentless, and you've a couple of others in the next bracket. A more cynical view is that there might be more money to be made through having more games and a back door system, or group formats as some counties have.

A realistic view is the current championship format is better than straight knockout. What are the advantages of straight knockout? If you think Kilcoo would have won any fewer than they have in the last decade or so, you are mistaken. Current format is far better for players who are asked a hell of a lot more in terms of commitment than yesteryear at club level.

I hadn't actually stated the straight knockout was better. But since you mention it, I believe at club level it is far better. Kilcoo have been the best team by a mile for years, maybe nobody would have knocked them out, but sure maybe it would have happened once or twice and made things more interesting. As for the commitment thing, as others have mentioned playing 2 or 3 games instead of one, when you play for a team that won't have a chance of beating Kilcoo twice to win it, is absolutely pointless. Players play and train because they love football. They get 16 or 18 league games to play. Why make them play 2 extra games 9/10 months after they started training if they have almost zero chance of causing an upset to win a championship? Just an opinion. Also, watching Tyrone's SFC games compared to other counties is a far more entertaining experience.

[KeyboardWman]

Nothing but complaints on this. Mental you think people really care about east and south down. Straight championship or no straight championship the majority of games are exciting. All the players deserve a good go at it. Happens in county why not at club.
The same ones complaining that the back door wasn't brought into county football in the 60s or 90s and down would have more all Ireland's.
Forever begrudgers.

[Gaelforce123]

The Majority of games are exciting? The two semis had 10 and 11 point differences and the final had a 9 point difference. All Q Finals were 6/7 points bar kilcoo v Carryduff. Majority of games exciting? Jesus

[TakeTheMark]

Controversial perhaps, but I prefer the format the way it is. Just don't go down the route of other counties and go group stages again. That format does not suit club football and cannot see how counties persist with it.

Since counties began installing multiple elimination competitions (groups/back doors), Tyrone, who didn't give in and are the only county in Ireland still with straight knockout (I think?), they haven't actually produced a provincial club champion in that time.

The question would be is it down to the championship, has better teams fallen by the wayside in a one off game? Has teams not gotten enough competitive championship  games? Or is it simply a case of their club teams just not being strong enough?

Obviously in that time there has been strong sides, Cross winning 5, Slaughtneil winning 3 and Kilcoo winning 2, but Tyrone have only produced one losing finalist since Errigal Ciaran winning in 2002.