Joe Brolly

[Taylor]

Im sure you make plenty of good points rrhf but not easy to start reading that post

[JoG2]

What is shocking about that interview is the biggest fake news in the history of the GAA. Pure balder dash that is being pedalled as fact or that that Derry team were destined for 2 or 3 sam maguires. 1/ the county didn't and would never have had the togetherness to hold it together for more than a few months ever without killing one another.. rows were always bubbling - it's just how much weight you put on each one.  2/ from the time there were tales of mad fighting among players as well for all sorts of reasons- easy to blame Mickey Moran for that auld caper perhaps Joe?
That Derry team had  2 great corner backs/ a brilliant 6 a super
Midfield - well tohill had a shocker In the game that lost their title and 2 scoring forwards Brolly And Gormley. Nothing exceptional  about the group but the achievement in winning 1 all Ireland was a great feat for them. It will probably  never happen again for them instead of looking back derry football now needs to look forward..... to the 50 year anniversary. 
3/ Another point I would make is that the hateful blaming  of Moran dosent take away from the fact that against down as holders having the game of his life and a bit of rough moves on to him he stopped playing.. and This great Derry team lost. They were very easy to figure out... This was a great Derry team but down were better and won 2 and no doubt had plenty of tensions to manage also, but compared to the quality of Armagh and Tyrone in the noughties they were not a great team. To sum it up they were a great league team who got it together to win a championship but Coleman or no Coleman row they would not have won any more. That is fact.
4/ a final pick up from the interview is that joe had broken his arm in 1995. He was one of the 2 scoring forwards they had so it's not mickeys fault he had a broken arm. Yet Mickey gets the blame. Jody Gormley marked tohill out of it in 95. That was 2 years in a row that he had a poor day out at his peak. Jody Gormley should not have been for to lace tohills boots... why? Happened again too.
5/ the 90s was an unforgettable glorious era for Ulster football and both Donegal and Derry had their year out of it, but down won 2. They were the best team from Ulster during this period. Ulster team of the decade in my eyes. If joe thinks a One time team like Derry were great then he must have some-admiration for Mickey Harte's Tyrone team of the noughties.....

Firstly, a very well constructed post. Secondly, the bit in bold, how can your statement possibly be a fact? It's an opinion.

We're talking different era's of football. As a Derry man, you rue those couple of years after 1993. If there had been a back door, who knows? Again, any speculation would be an opinion, not a fact. Derry could maybe have won another, maybe not. This great Tyrone team of the noughties would be sitting with 1 AI if there was no backdoor.

[Estimator]

What is shocking about that interview is the biggest fake news in the history of the GAA. Pure balder dash that is being pedalled as fact or that that Derry team were destined for 2 or 3 sam maguires. 1/ the county didn't and would never have had the togetherness to hold it together for more than a few months ever without killing one another.. rows were always bubbling - it's just how much weight you put on each one.  2/ from the time there were tales of mad fighting among players as well for all sorts of reasons- easy to blame Mickey Moran for that auld caper perhaps Joe?
That Derry team had  2 great corner backs/ a brilliant 6 a super
Midfield - well tohill had a shocker In the game that lost their title and 2 scoring forwards Brolly And Gormley. Nothing exceptional  about the group but the achievement in winning 1 all Ireland was a great feat for them. It will probably  never happen again for them instead of looking back derry football now needs to look forward..... to the 50 year anniversary. 
3/ Another point I would make is that the hateful blaming  of Moran dosent take away from the fact that against down as holders having the game of his life and a bit of rough moves on to him he stopped playing.. and This great Derry team lost. They were very easy to figure out... This was a great Derry team but down were better and won 2 and no doubt had plenty of tensions to manage also, but compared to the quality of Armagh and Tyrone in the noughties they were not a great team. To sum it up they were a great league team who got it together to win a championship but Coleman or no Coleman row they would not have won any more. That is fact.
4/ a final pick up from the interview is that joe had broken his arm in 1995. He was one of the 2 scoring forwards they had so it's not mickeys fault he had a broken arm. Yet Mickey gets the blame. Jody Gormley marked tohill out of it in 95. That was 2 years in a row that he had a poor day out at his peak. Jody Gormley should not have been for to lace tohills boots... why? Happened again too.
5/ the 90s was an unforgettable glorious era for Ulster football and both Donegal and Derry had their year out of it, but down won 2. They were the best team from Ulster during this period. Ulster team of the decade in my eyes. If joe thinks a One time team like Derry were great then he must have some-admiration for Mickey Harte's Tyrone team of the noughties.....

Some fine opinions in there, but that is all they are.
Not sure if the evidence stacks up about Tohill having a shocker in the '94 game and Brolly disappearing after Kelly was taken off.
Some great analysis here - https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/2020/04/23/derry-v-down-1994-ulster/

I'd suggest Brolly only did this interview after seeing the success of Scullion's interview a couple of weeks ago.  One where Scullion refused to be drawn on the fall out after the Coleman saga.  But Brolly sees the controversy and might get some more air time.

I'd say Brian McGilligan's quote is close to how I'd feel about the whole thing - "Any other county would have got their act together.  Too many boys partied, lived the high life and thought it was only a matter of turning up.  We definitely should have won another one. The players were good enough, you can't pinpoint any one thing. It was the perfect storm.  There was a whole lot of things going on behind."

[imtommygunn]

I only read that McGilligan article this morning. Very good.

[Hoof Hearted]

Where can I hear this interview

[thewobbler]

Derry wans wouldn't like to hear this, but their AI winning forward line was probably the weakest forward line to win an All Ireland in my lifetime.

That they managed to win an AI with Heaney, Barton, Cassidy and Downey, all in the one line-up, and barely a threat between them, was quite remarkable.

The reason they didn't win another one was it was 6 or 7 more years waiting for Paddy Bradley to come along, by which time most the 1993 defence and midfield were done.

[JoG2]

Derry wans wouldn't like to hear this, but their AI winning forward line was probably the weakest forward line to win an All Ireland in my lifetime.

That they managed to win an AI with Heaney, Barton, Cassidy and Downey, all in the one line-up, and barely a threat between them, was quite remarkable.

The reason they didn't win another one was it was 6 or 7 more years waiting for Paddy Bradley to come along, by which time most the 1993 defence and midfield were done.

Heaney, Cassidy and Downey all very good footballers, but Barton was a serious footballer, imo or course

[theticklemister]

Derry wans wouldn't like to hear this, but their AI winning forward line was probably the weakest forward line to win an All Ireland in my lifetime.

That they managed to win an AI with Heaney, Barton, Cassidy and Downey, all in the one line-up, and barely a threat between them, was quite remarkable.

The reason they didn't win another one was it was 6 or 7 more years waiting for Paddy Bradley to come along, by which time most the 1993 defence and midfield were done.

Heaney, Cassidy and Downey all very good footballers, but Barton was a serious footballer, imo or course

I never quite seen Barton in his prime. Me da said he was superb. But any time I watched him, he was ordinary. The same must be said of Cassidy. I'm 36 and never missed a match from 92 onwards. Looking back at the 93 final again there, Heaney had a superb game.

I read that interview with McGilligan there now, really enjoyed it. I think Mal did this in 201& and putting it back out now. Derry PRO is doing excellent work at present also.

[Silver hill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqDwD00rOA&t=2339s

Wow, explosive stuff, Moran comes out of that really badly. Always thought he had a real sneaky look about him.

On the money Lenny. He's unable to look anyone directly in the eye. Completely judased Coleman in 94 with a supporting cast of Mckeever and Gribben. Tried to slip into the driving seat but was told be the players (well 22 of the players) to sling his hook. Hung on for a year then slopped  off when he finally realised he wasn't wanted. Moran has cleverly crafted this humble, sincere, it's never about me image. He might think he's fooling everyone but he knows what he did in 94 and the players saw his treachery a mile off. No matter how good that team was, it was fatally fractured and the heart belief and together ness that was there under Coleman, was never going to be tolerated by the players. His eyes are the giveaway; the eyes of a troubled man who knows what he's done.

[Angelo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqDwD00rOA&t=2339s

Wow, explosive stuff, Moran comes out of that really badly. Always thought he had a real sneaky look about him.

On the money Lenny. He's unable to look anyone directly in the eye. Completely judased Coleman in 94 with a supporting cast of Mckeever and Gribben. Tried to slip into the driving seat but was told be the players (well 22 of the players) to sling his hook. Hung on for a year then slopped  off when he finally realised he wasn't wanted. Moran has cleverly crafted this humble, sincere, it's never about me image. He might think he's fooling everyone but he knows what he did in 94 and the players saw his treachery a mile off. No matter how good that team was, it was fatally fractured and the heart belief and together ness that was there under Coleman, was never going to be tolerated by the players. His eyes are the giveaway; the eyes of a troubled man who knows what he's done.

This is a classic Derry type post.

[BennyHarp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqDwD00rOA&t=2339s

Wow, explosive stuff, Moran comes out of that really badly. Always thought he had a real sneaky look about him.

On the money Lenny. He's unable to look anyone directly in the eye. Completely judased Coleman in 94 with a supporting cast of Mckeever and Gribben. Tried to slip into the driving seat but was told be the players (well 22 of the players) to sling his hook. Hung on for a year then slopped  off when he finally realised he wasn't wanted. Moran has cleverly crafted this humble, sincere, it's never about me image. He might think he's fooling everyone but he knows what he did in 94 and the players saw his treachery a mile off. No matter how good that team was, it was fatally fractured and the heart belief and together ness that was there under Coleman, was never going to be tolerated by the players. His eyes are the giveaway; the eyes of a troubled man who knows what he's done.

The problem with Derry is that they are so full of hate that they even hate each other. Moran is a decent man who went on to have plenty of success, there is a generation of Derry players who have a perfect fall guy for their own inadequacies. This revisionism is fine and keeps people like Brolly content with what they have achieved but the rest of the country know that this Derry team didn't have what it needed to win multiple AI titles and once worked out were very one dimensional. Everything went through Tohill and Brolly. Shut them down and you win the game. As mentioned before Jody Gormley easily shut Tohill down on numerous occasions. The Down team of that era were a much, much better outfit, I'm not sure any of Derry's forward line would have replaced any player on the Down forward line. Down will quite rightly go down in history as a great team, Derry won't.

[Angelo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqDwD00rOA&t=2339s

Wow, explosive stuff, Moran comes out of that really badly. Always thought he had a real sneaky look about him.

On the money Lenny. He's unable to look anyone directly in the eye. Completely judased Coleman in 94 with a supporting cast of Mckeever and Gribben. Tried to slip into the driving seat but was told be the players (well 22 of the players) to sling his hook. Hung on for a year then slopped  off when he finally realised he wasn't wanted. Moran has cleverly crafted this humble, sincere, it's never about me image. He might think he's fooling everyone but he knows what he did in 94 and the players saw his treachery a mile off. No matter how good that team was, it was fatally fractured and the heart belief and together ness that was there under Coleman, was never going to be tolerated by the players. His eyes are the giveaway; the eyes of a troubled man who knows what he's done.

The problem with Derry is that they are so full of hate that they even hate each other. Moran is a decent man who went on to have plenty of success, there is a generation of Derry players who have a perfect fall guy for their own inadequacies. This revisionism is fine and keeps people like Brolly content with what they have achieved but the rest of the country know that this Derry team didn't have what it needed to win multiple AI titles and once worked out were very one dimensional. Everything went through Tohill and Brolly. Shut them down and you win the game. As mentioned before Jody Gormley easily shut Tohill down on numerous occasions. The Down team of that era were a much, much better outfit, I'm not sure any of Derry's forward line would have replaced any player on the Down forward line. Down will quite rightly go down in history as a great team, Derry won't.

Exactly, Moran foraged a very good managerial career for himself out after Derry and the one thing that is evident under the teams and players he had, is the huge amount of respect and admiration they had for him. Derry don't like introspection, they always want someone or something to blame for their failings and the extent to which they will go to that is as vicious and nasty as it gets.

Brolly is a prime example of that, the 94 game with Down was on there recently, Brolly had an excellent open 25 minutes and then he had a man changed on him, got a little roughed up and he did not want to know about it for the remainder of the match - he disappeared, in the face of adversity. For a man who has questioned Gooch and his inability to do it when the chips were down (quite rightly too), he wasn't much of a leader in troubling times himself. Brolly can talk the talk but unfortunately he didn't walk the walk when he was needed too many times.

But of course it's Mickey Moran's fault.

[Silver hill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqDwD00rOA&t=2339s

Wow, explosive stuff, Moran comes out of that really badly. Always thought he had a real sneaky look about him.

On the money Lenny. He's unable to look anyone directly in the eye. Completely judased Coleman in 94 with a supporting cast of Mckeever and Gribben. Tried to slip into the driving seat but was told be the players (well 22 of the players) to sling his hook. Hung on for a year then slopped  off when he finally realised he wasn't wanted. Moran has cleverly crafted this humble, sincere, it's never about me image. He might think he's fooling everyone but he knows what he did in 94 and the players saw his treachery a mile off. No matter how good that team was, it was fatally fractured and the heart belief and together ness that was there under Coleman, was never going to be tolerated by the players. His eyes are the giveaway; the eyes of a troubled man who knows what he's done.

The problem with Derry is that they are so full of hate that they even hate each other. Moran is a decent man who went on to have plenty of success, there is a generation of Derry players who have a perfect fall guy for their own inadequacies. This revisionism is fine and keeps people like Brolly content with what they have achieved but the rest of the country know that this Derry team didn't have what it needed to win multiple AI titles and once worked out were very one dimensional. Everything went through Tohill and Brolly. Shut them down and you win the game. As mentioned before Jody Gormley easily shut Tohill down on numerous occasions. The Down team of that era were a much, much better outfit, I'm not sure any of Derry's forward line would have replaced any player on the Down forward line. Down will quite rightly go down in history as a great team, Derry won't.

Exactly, Moran foraged a very good managerial career for himself out after Derry and the one thing that is evident under the teams and players he had, is the huge amount of respect and admiration they had for him. Derry don't like introspection, they always want someone or something to blame for their failings and the extent to which they will go to that is as vicious and nasty as it gets.

Brolly is a prime example of that, the 94 game with Down was on there recently, Brolly had an excellent open 25 minutes and then he had a man changed on him, got a little roughed up and he did not want to know about it for the remainder of the match - he disappeared, in the face of adversity. For a man who has questioned Gooch and his inability to do it when the chips were down (quite rightly too), he wasn't much of a leader in troubling times himself. Brolly can talk the talk but unfortunately he didn't walk the walk when he was needed too many times.

But of course it's Mickey Moran's fault.

Really? Well if the question is, who was primarily responsible for Eamon Coleman being removed from his job in 1994? The answer is M Moran. After that, if the question is who's fault was it that Derry underperformed in the subsequent years....well if you can't see a correlation in what happened Eamon to the underperformance thereafter....players play for the jersey, themselves and the cause but a massive part of it is playing for the manager. The majority of that squad in 95 didn't want Moran there. Knowing that, it's amazing that we ran Tyrone so close in clones that day given what was going on.

[BennyHarp]

I'd say the whole culture led to the events of Coleman's dismissal. Did the players really expect respect when they behaved like little kids chanting "weasel" every time Harry Shivers entered a room? Brolly still laughs at that today as if it's something to be proud of. Coleman allowed this and probably fostered it to achieve a siege mentality. That's just one example and I'd be fairly sure that there was more to the story about Jim McGuigan punching Downey than one fairly innocuous comment at a team meal. In that sort of environment it was always going to come to a head. Moran is an easy target to pin all the blame on. That Derry team had been found out by 1994 and weren't good enough regardless of who was in charge. Compare numbers 10 to 15 against any of the teams that won more than one All Ireland subsequently and you will see where the inadequacies lay. Brian McGillgan's comment.." Too many boys partied, lived the high life and thought it was only a matter of turning up" probably tells us more than Brolly's full half hour monologue. But sure it's all Mickey Moran's fault.

[Newbridge Exile]

Derry wans wouldn't like to hear this, but their AI winning forward line was probably the weakest forward line to win an All Ireland in my lifetime.

That they managed to win an AI with Heaney, Barton, Cassidy and Downey, all in the one line-up, and barely a threat between them, was quite remarkable.

The reason they didn't win another one was it was 6 or 7 more years waiting for Paddy Bradley to come along, by which time most the 1993 defence and midfield were done.

Heaney, Cassidy and Downey all very good footballers, but Barton was a serious footballer, imo or course

I never quite seen Barton in his prime. Me da said he was superb. But any time I watched him, he was ordinary. The same must be said of Cassidy. I'm 36 and never missed a match from 92 onwards. Looking back at the 93 final again there, Heaney had a superb game.

I read that interview with McGilligan there now, really enjoyed it. I think Mal did this in 201& and putting it back out now. Derry PRO is doing excellent work at present also.

Obviously biased but in my opinion of Damian Barton but Paddy Heaneys article below is a good read and sums him up well , (Greg Blaney is the  best no 11 that I have seen in my lifetime though IMHO)
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Modern game neglects genius at 11
Thursday, June 11, 2015


By Paddy Heaney


There is one serious flaw with the defensive-based running game which has been slavishly adopted by virtually every team in the country.

It has robbed us of the centre half-forward.

And I don't know about you, but I have a soft spot for the No.11 position.

It all started with Damian Barton. Barton was the first truly gifted creative player that I ever witnessed on a football field.

My personal nickname for the Newbridge star was Bartoni. I always thought of him as a continental Gaelic footballer. In many ways he embodied all the qualities of the quintessential Italian soccer player.

He was composed. He had style. There was also a certain swagger. And like your typical Italian pro, Bartoni could also be utterly, utterly ruthless.

For Derry, Damian Barton could be good, and occasionally great. For Newbridge, he was a colossus. Think Eric Cantona in a green jersey.

In the same way as Cantona added a measure of Gallic flair to Old Trafford, Barton brought a similar level of refined technique to the playing fields of Derry.


His passing was just on a different stratosphere. No one was remotely in the same league as him. In 1989, he captained and carried Newbridge to a county title. The recipe was simple and a delight to watch.

Barton, the quarter-back, split the defences and Liam Devlin scored the goals.

When I was in first year at St Patrick's Maghera and Barton was subbing at our school, I got my one and only coaching lesson from the player I adored to watch.

During a game at PE, I tried unsuccessfully to place a kick pass to a corner-forward who was being tightly marked. Barton stopped the game. First, he pointed to the narrow square of ground where I had been trying to aim a pass. Then, he directed my attention to the huge swathe of grass which was totally unoccupied. The advice has never been forgotten. "Always kick to the space," he said.

Nowadays, the game is all about running and rushing, tackling and harrying. Barton never slipped out of cruise control. He never seemed to sweat. He made it look effortless.

Years later, I marked him in a tense relegation game in Newbridge. He played and managed at the same time. Picking passes while coolly instructing everyone around him. The tone of his voice never wavered, not even in the dying minutes as Newbridge trailed by two points. He was coolness personified. The game ended in a draw.

Perhaps the main reason I like a good centre half-forward is because a great No.11 is the complete footballer. There are All Star corner-forwards who can't catch a ball above their heads. There are also All Star defenders who, for good reason, never kick the ball.

In contrast, a Rolls-Royce centre half-forward has mastery of all the skills. Greg Blaney is the supreme example. Blaney had everything — brains, brawn, passion and panache. He could pass, score, catch and tackle.


He had the lot.

The first time I saw him play was on a mucky day in Newcastle. It was a winter's league game in the late 80s.

Heavy air and heavy ground. It wasn't the type of day for Blaney to showcase his finesse. That didn't matter. Unlike a lot of stylists, Blaney wasn't just a hard ground specialist. He could play in all conditions.

What struck me first about him was his courage. He would dive headlong into a ruck of boots to grab a breaking ball — and he would win it.


He was so fearless. Moments after some astounding act of courage, he would dink the daintiest of foot-passes to a corner-forward.

Most Gaelic footballers fall into one of two categories. They are either a soldier or an artist. Few straddle both camps. Greg Blaney was one of the exceptions.

On that day in Newcastle, he landed two long range points from about 50 metres. That was the day I joined the Greg Blaney fan club. The beauty of a great centre half-forward like Greg Blaney was that he unlocked the brilliance of the forwards around him. It's no coincidence that when Blaney was in his pomp, Mickey Linden and James McCartan never played better.

Down's All-Ireland victories of 1991 and 1994 sprung from that magical triangle. With Blaney operating at the point, he sprayed the passes to the left and right wings. It was an exhilarating spectacle.

Yet, think now about the games witnessed in this year's championship.

In Ulster, I can't think of one example when a player received the ball on the 40 and created a score with a Barton or Blaney-like pass.

There is a good reason why we have been deprived of this type of play. Teams are no longer playing with an orthodox centre half-forward. The position no longer exists. When teams defend, the entire half-forward line retreats en masse. The preferred option is to run the ball out of defence.

It's the modern way, but it would be a shame if no accommodation could be made for some of the ingenious footballers that have lit up our lives in recent years.

For example, where would the great Maurice Fitzgerald fit into the gameplan which has become the default choice in Ulster? It would be foolish to suggest that Fitzgerald wouldn't get his place. But it's the role he would be expected to perform that might cause a certain amount of anguish.

Rather than allow creative footballers to express themselves, the current trend seems to favour recalibrating them into something entirely different.

Managers would argue that the blanket defence has neutered the effectiveness of a traditional centre half-forward. That's not entirely true.


Armagh enjoyed considerable success last year when they deployed Kevin Dyas as a regular No.11. By holding his position, Dyas provided the Armagh defence with the option of a long ball. Armagh's ability to turn defence into attack with one kick enabled them to beat the blanket defence as the opposition had no time to get a dozen men behind the ball.


The real problem in football is the herd mentality which affects managers. Too few of them are prepared to think for themselves and try something different.

At its very best, Gaelic football is a celebration of tribalism and talent. We admire our warriors. But the icons of our game are the warriors whose wizardry allows them to rise above and beyond the battle.

Greg Blaney, Maurice Fitzgerald, Ciarán McDonald, Trevor Giles, Brian McGuigan, John McEntee and Colm Cooper. The poet soldiers.

I would love to say that the list goes on. But as things stand, it doesn't.

Damian BartonDerryGreg BlaneyMaurice FitzgeraldCiarán McDonaldTrevor GilesBrian McGuiganJohn McEnteeColm Cooper
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