Pope resigns

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I don't think anyone is sneering at anyone Muppet.
Play the ball san

You proclaim the church should only be for "a strong group of devout followers who believe and agree with the teachings". No doubt you include yourself in this exclusive group. You are the one attacking people who think differently to you basically excluding them from your view of the church.

Play the ball yourself.

I didn't proclaim anything. I agreed with Heganboy's initial line of thinking that the church would become narrower in focus and if you want more fundamentalist. I don't know why you would be so upset about that or how I was playing you or anyone else by agreeing with that.

Like any organisation, if you don't agree then find another one you do agree with. If you don't agree with any religious belief system then don't get involved in an discussion you have no real contribution to and perhaps your agenda is only to annoy the folks that do care.
I don't know why the church should change the rules to suit you or anyone else.

Jesus said "Follow me" he didn't ask what way is Muppet headed and everyone else and say "anything goes there lads". If you dont want to follow Him, then don't.

Iceman, don't you agree in all objectivity, the "church" is a daft notion and there is a high possibility that following its nonsense is a sign of a weak character and a limited world view.

[theskull1]

This is what heganboy and I both referred to. I believe the Church has to become narrower with a strong group of devout followers who believe and agree with the teachings. No more pick and mix, no more talk of catering to the majority or popular opinion - just a church of believers in every sense of the word. From there it can grow and broaden.

Blessed are those who have seen what the leadership of the RC church are like and yet "still" believe in it

I think Skull that might be your misunderstanding or misjudgement in all of this.
I don't have to believe in the "people", I have to believe that God by His Holy Spirit will prevail. The problems of the Church have been human problems. And if you don't believe that you don't have to. But that's what I believe. When the church is reconciled, it won't be through the works of people, but God.

Metaphysical hogwash Iceman.

[Pangurban]

Dont waste your time debating with the godless Iceman, they have little to say  and an offensive way of saying it, but then whats the point of being ignorant if you cant show it. Just give them your blessing and leave them to wrestle with their own demons

[Eamonnca1]

Attention fellow atheists: If you're debating god with a believer over the age of 50 then your chances of changing his mind are slim. But if you must debate, try to play the ball and not the man.  By all means attack the idea of the god hypothesis, but try not to cast aspersions on the character of people who still cling to those old beliefs.  I'm probably guilty of it myself on occasion but it's something we should try to avoid.

[Declan]

If you're debating god with a believer over the age of 50 then your chances of changing his mind are slim

Why would you want to change their mind in the first place?

Interesting thoughts from Oz here on it - http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/14/inside-the-vatican-west-wing-meets-the-da-vinci-code/?wpmp_switcher=mobile&wpmp_tp=1

[johnneycool]

Dont waste your time debating with the godless Iceman, they have little to say  and an offensive way of saying it, but then whats the point of being ignorant if you cant show it. Just give them your blessing and leave them to wrestle with their own demons

I think you can safely differentiate between god from the debacle that is the most holy roman catholic church,.

auld matthew had it right and 2000 years later it's back the same way.

Jesus Cleanses the Temple

21-12 Then Jesus entered the temple[c] and drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 He said to them, "It is written,

'My house shall be called a house of prayer';
    but you are making it a den of robbers."

[muppet]

People here call me Godless and an Atheist and then accuse me of playing the man.

The hypocrisy is as staggering as it is hilarious.

[deiseach]

People here call me Godless and an Atheist and then accuse me of playing the man.

The hypocrisy is as staggering as it is hilarious.

Are you not Godless and an Atheist?

[muppet]

People here call me Godless and an Atheist and then accuse me of playing the man.

The hypocrisy is as staggering as it is hilarious.

Are you not Godless and an Atheist?

Nope, my difficulty is the with the Church and the spoofers that populate it.

[deiseach]

People here call me Godless and an Atheist and then accuse me of playing the man.

The hypocrisy is as staggering as it is hilarious.

Are you not Godless and an Atheist?

Nope, my difficulty is the with the Church and the spoofers that populate it.

Okay. I wouldn't have thought being called Godless and an Atheist is necessarily an insult, but it's playing the man all right.

[muppet]

People here call me Godless and an Atheist and then accuse me of playing the man.

The hypocrisy is as staggering as it is hilarious.

Are you not Godless and an Atheist?

Nope, my difficulty is the with the Church and the spoofers that populate it.

Okay. I wouldn't have thought being called Godless and an Atheist is necessarily an insult, but it's playing the man all right.

The thing is if you are discussing people's beliefs then you have to 'play the man'. Your beliefs and yourself can't really be separated.

[seafoid]

You just have to read a few posts here to see why the Church will not survive long.

We have fundamentalism sneering at any thinking that remotely differs, while insisting that a return to even more fundamentalism is the only way forward.

As I said the Church needs a Gorbachev figure, not the Marxist that made Ulick drool, but the figure that brought a failing organisation into the present.

I think there will be a schism . Europe to leave the fundamentalists in Africa and the US. Not sure where South America will fit. The Church of England is split down the middle on gay rights . And whatever church emerges is going to have to come to terms with the reality of climate change. Because god isn't going to do anything about it and blaming it on the gays is pointless .

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Dont waste your time debating with the godless Iceman, they have little to say  and an offensive way of saying it, but then whats the point of being ignorant if you cant show it. Just give them your blessing and leave them to wrestle with their own demons

Regarding your point about there being no point being ignorant if you cannot show it, is this why so many had ashes on their face yesterday?

[armaghniac]

Regarding your point about there being no point being ignorant if you cannot show it,

Perhaps something to bear in mind when posting?

[magpie seanie]

There are so many contradictions within scripture, theology etc that I think the Church just needs to boil it down to brass tacks. A few simple things like the below are all we should focus on - not telling people you can or can't do this or that. Like - you have free will but you can't do this, that or the other!

1) All people are created equal and are equal in the eyes of God.
2) It is not our job to judge other people - try to help if you think they need it but leave the judging to the big guy.
3) Try to be a good person and use your talents to do good.

Number 2 is a hard one to live by but we should try to.