Long Kesh Park takes another step forward

[Square Ball]

Sorry to interupt but

Paisley says no to Ormeau stadium 

Proposals at the Maze include a stadium for soccer, GAA and rugby
First Minister Ian Paisley has ruled out plans for a stadium at Belfast's Ormeau Park, saying it would affect five churches, including his own.
Mr Paisley said it would not be "convenient" to have Sunday School children arriving in buses with a greyhound track outside the door.

He added: "It will not be and I'm told it cannot be under the planning act."

Belfast City Council is considering a possible stadium, incorporating a greyhound park, at the park.

On Wednesday, research commissioned by the council suggested a new national sports stadium for Northern Ireland should have an urban setting.

"Seldom have we experienced such overwhelming evidence for the in-town location," the report stated.

The findings went against proposals for a 35,000-seater stadium for soccer, GAA and rugby at the Maze/Long Kesh site.

On Tuesday, the culture minister said he was not satisfied that plans for a Belfast site for the stadium were viable.

Edwin Poots added that the process could not go on indefinitely.

He said the Maze/Long Kesh Site was the only site able to accommodate "a potentially viable shared stadium for all the sports involved".

[snatter]

Where have I said that I should decide on the neutrality or otherwise of any stadium? And where have I said that I should have any influence on GAA decisions? I think your imagination might be running away with you.

Sammy,

Not so.
You're obviously so busy speed reading that you're forgetting what you write.

Here, I'll make it easier for you by highlighting in red, as I repeatedly pose my repeatedly posed, but still unanswered earlier post.

PS Hope you didn't read that too fast! It might confuse you and make you think strange things like "as yet the anti maze brigade haven't managed to come up with a neutral alternative acceptable to all three sports' governing bodies.

snatter

The GAA vetoed any city site (at that stage Ormeau wasn't even on the agenda), they chose to reject the shared space opportunites and instead do what was right for the GAA. I've no problem with that (I wish the IFA was as well lead as the GAA) but I do have a problem with your hypocritical claims that it's the NI football supporters who are anti shared space.

You still haven't ecplained to me who decides what is and what isn't a genuine shared space?
How can you say the GAA rejects a genuine shared space when in all probablilty the GAA doesn't regard it as such?

I REPEAT MY PREVIOUS QUESTION

quote author=snatter link=topic=2483.msg106490#msg106490 date=1182454060]

snatter

Yet again you're mixing up press releases and policy. No one has any problem with the idea of a shared space, the issue is that the shared space at the Maze is economically unfeasible. Also it's interesting that you've talked several times about our unwillingness to sign up to a shared space, while totally ignoring the fact that it was the GAA that vetoed the genuine shared space oppurtunity, in favour of a white elephant, which they neither need nor want.

Stadium at the Maze
Chance of a casual non-GAAer going to watch a GAA match - nil
Chance of a GAA head attending a football match - maybe 5% but that would be optimistic
Chance of either a football or GAA fan going to a rugby match - nil because there won't be any rugby matches

Stadium in Belfast
All of the above become not just possible but probable. Husband drops the wife off for a bit of shopping and takes the kids to a match. Great day out for all concerned and a new convert to the 'other side'

If you can't see the difference in those two scenarios then I don't know how else to explain it.

So the GAA rejected

the genuine shared space oppurtunity

?
And who exactly decided that the Ormeau park was the

the genuine shared space oppurtunity

?

You, your OWC cronies, the IFA, the Newsletter, the Belfast Telegraph?

Do the GAA (to remind yoiu the sport with 10 times your attendance figures) and non OWC heads not have the right to make up their minds as what is and what isn't

a genuine shared space oppurtunity

?
Surely it is for the GAA to take soundings and itself decide on what is and isn't accepable or neutral.

[/quote]

[snatter]

Sorry to interupt but

Paisley says no to Ormeau stadium 

Proposals at the Maze include a stadium for soccer, GAA and rugby
First Minister Ian Paisley has ruled out plans for a stadium at Belfast's Ormeau Park, saying it would affect five churches, including his own.
Mr Paisley said it would not be "convenient" to have Sunday School children arriving in buses with a greyhound track outside the door.

He added: "It will not be and I'm told it cannot be under the planning act."

Belfast City Council is considering a possible stadium, incorporating a greyhound park, at the park.

On Wednesday, research commissioned by the council suggested a new national sports stadium for Northern Ireland should have an urban setting.

"Seldom have we experienced such overwhelming evidence for the in-town location," the report stated.

The findings went against proposals for a 35,000-seater stadium for soccer, GAA and rugby at the Maze/Long Kesh site.

On Tuesday, the culture minister said he was not satisfied that plans for a Belfast site for the stadium were viable.

Edwin Poots added that the process could not go on indefinitely.

He said the Maze/Long Kesh Site was the only site able to accommodate "a potentially viable shared stadium for all the sports involved".

Square Ball,

don't worry, the famed revolutionary Sammy has just taken over all thought processes for the Free P church as well as the GAA and the British Govt.
There'll be no dissent in the church of Sammy, as he decrees that everybody else (apart from "his mates") is wrong, and blessed by the god given power of infallibility, he shall proceed to build his new 20k soccer temple on Ormeau Park. 

[snatter]

Sammy,

can you hear me? are you allright? speak to us sammy!
God I hope he's alright.
Can you imagine the shock poor sammy got?
Imagine Big Ian siding with those Shinners on the gaaboard.

It's too quiet in here. Its lonely without a wee imaginary story from sammy every 30 seconds.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Question resolved no Ormeau Park cause the mad doc death says No again!

Sammy youse may start looking at the north foreshore now - otherwise, accept the inevitable Long Kesh it is.....  

[SammyG]

Lads

Do you ever actually read things or do you just take every press release at face value?

1) Paisley mentions that Churches have a problem with the greyhound track - totally irrelevant Churches have no more or less say in planning applications than any one else

2) He states that it is not possible to build in the park due to planning regs - this is a complete lie and was put to bed, when Poots first mentioned it a few days ago.

3) And most importantly Paisley and Poots don't get to make the decison, it has to go through all the standard processes.

p.s. Thanks for your concern but I had to go and pick my wee lad up from Scouts.

[snatter]

Question resolved no Ormeau Park cause the mad doc death says No again!

Sammy youse may start looking at the north foreshore now - otherwise, accept the inevitable Long Kesh it is..... 

Did anybody ever consider Musgrave Park?

Close to rail stations (railway line goes alongside I think), beside motorway, quite close to Casement, nowhere near any hardcore sectarian areas?
As a committed GAA man, I can't think of any reason not to go there, apart from being further away for the vast vast majority of fans who would ever go there (mainly gaelic football fans coming from west and south Ulster).
Maybe parking would be a problem.
Worth a look anyway?

[Square Ball]

would Musgrave be big enought? St Brides have a pitch being built at the minute in these so there goes some space.

[nifan]

/quote]

Every viable site should be given a reasonable look.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

/quote]

Every viable site should be given a reasonable look.

Yes look at every VIABLE site, I would be happy enough if the government gave the Ulster council the equivalent share in money and land that would be allocated through this stadium.
The Ulster council could then invest in our already established grounds, and even build a new 40,000 super stadium in Armagh for the big matches, its about as central as you'll get.
P.S. Armagh need a decent stadium of their own anyway! 

[snatter]

/quote]

Every viable site should be given a reasonable look.

Yes look at every VIABLE site, I would be happy enough if the government gave the Ulster council the equivalent share in money and land that would be allocated through this stadium.
The Ulster council could then invest in our already established grounds, and even build a new 40,000 super stadium in Armagh for the big matches, its about as central as you'll get.
P.S. Armagh need a decent stadium of their own anyway! 

GDA,

Yes look at every VIABLE site, I would be happy enough if the government gave the Ulster council the equivalent share in money and land that would be allocated through this stadium.
The Ulster council could then invest in our already established grounds, and even build a new 40,000 super stadium in Armagh for the big matches, its about as central as you'll get.
P.S. Armagh need a decent stadium of their own anyway! 

A few points on this:

1. How do you possibly divide the money up fairly? On need? on build cost? just split it three ways?
   I put this to Evil Genius, and he said some sort of "independent" committee could decide.
   How would the independence" of this "independent" committee be determined, and what criteria would it use.
   No matter how it operated, there would be calls of bias.
   One problem is that the costs of developing soccer and gaa stadia differ significantly.
   So many soccer stadia have been designed and built by the big firms, that they've become almost off the peg.
   The engineering needed has been well calculated and costed already.

   A GAA stadium built to the exact same levels of comfort and safety on the other hand will have to be completely bespoke designed.
   Design, engineering and construction costs will be higher.
   Additionally, it is well established that stadium build costs increase exponentially, not directly proportional to capacity.
   To illustrate

   Arsenal FC
   Name: Emirates Stadium
   Opened: July 2006
   Costs: £390 million
   Capacity: 60,000


   Southampton
   St. Marys
   Opened: July 2001
   Cost: £32m
   Capacity 32689

   If GAA fans want equal treatment in terms of having a capacity that suits its actual attendence figures (they dwarf NI soccer), and guarantees them the same level of comfort (seats, roof) as NI fans, then our share of the funding wopuld be far greater.
   MY guess is that the OWC brigade and unreconstructed unionists would be the loudest to complain at us getting significantly more money.
   It would be a sectarian bunfight of the highest order.

   A three way split on the other hand gives them enough to build an all seated and covered stadium for their smaller crowds.
   Our share would be too little to give the same level of comfort to our much higher fanbase. MY guess is that the majority would still be standing on a cold wet uncovered concrete terrace.
   
2. Creating separate facilities whose usage does not reflect the whole committee is so agaisnt the grain of the Govt.'s new Shared Spaces policy.   
   People need to realise that the Govt is trying to teach all us natives a lesson here - either start sharing and co-operating, or you get nothing.
   Its possible theat the Govt might publicly do a U-turn, but imho, its more likely tht they'd teach us all a lesson adn tell us to fcuk off.
   Remember that Brown is no friend of NI in the way that Blair was. He looks at teh per capita funding we get in NI compared to his own Scotland and thinks we're ungrateful spongers who get too much already.


3. Point B below

The only reason I bother with this is

A.
to keep the issue high in the consciousness of GAA fans, to make sure that these guys don't get away with it, and to ensure that we get fairly catered for.
I keep exposing their argument as flawed just in case any weaker GAA souls (like slow corner back) fall for their lies and accept some carve-up of the money as being acceptable.
Any carve up of the govt money would undoubtedly leave us worse off, as it would fail to reflect our higher attendences and more expensive build costs for large sized gaa stadia.

B.
I genuinely believe that the long term futuer of GAA in N Ireland relies on getting unionists to accept it as no more threatening than irish dancing.
A high class shared stadium , accesible to many unionists in greater belfast area gives us a far better stage to sell our games to them than some desolate uncovered concrete bowl in Clones.

4. If we ever did have to go it alone (I still hope we won't have to), Dungannon is much more central for the whole of Ulster.
Its at the end of a motorway, and is easily less than 2 hours drive from every corner of Ulster.

[An Fear Rua]

Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!

stay the f**k away from Dungannon, we have enough problems of our own.

[SammyG]

MY guess is that the OWC brigade and unreconstructed unionists would be the loudest to complain at us getting significantly more money.

   It would be a sectarian bunfight of the highest order.

Truely pathetic comment. How can the IFA which is completely non-sectarian and has players, supporters and officials from all creeds, be accused of being in a sectarian bunfight? What was it you were saying about masks slipping?

[snatter]

MY guess is that the OWC brigade and unreconstructed unionists would be the loudest to complain at us getting significantly more money.

   It would be a sectarian bunfight of the highest order.

Truely pathetic comment. How can the IFA which is completely non-sectarian and has players, supporters and officials from all creeds, be accused of being in a sectarian bunfight? What was it you were saying about masks slipping?

Sammy,

sorry, but on my computer it reads

OWC brigade and unreconstructed unionists

.

I've searched and can't find the letters IFA anywhere in my post.
Your speed reading is letting you down again!   

[SammyG]

MY guess is that the OWC brigade and unreconstructed unionists would be the loudest to complain at us getting significantly more money.

   It would be a sectarian bunfight of the highest order.

Truely pathetic comment. How can the IFA which is completely non-sectarian and has players, supporters and officials from all creeds, be accused of being in a sectarian bunfight? What was it you were saying about masks slipping?

Sammy,

sorry, but on my computer it reads

OWC brigade and unreconstructed unionists

.

I've searched and can't find the letters IFA anywhere in my post.
Your speed reading is letting you down again!   

So what did you mean by OWC 'brigade' then? I took it to be short hand for NI football, maybe I'm wrong.