Long Kesh Park takes another step forward

[snatter]

Snatter

Ok I give up, you win,  if you believe it's agreed (as you clearly do), what is the plan, what is the budget, how will it work?

I AM right regarding capacity specifications - have patience and wait for the HOK design proposal.
In the meantime, you can stop pedalling crap.

As for budget - my expectation would be that this won't differ from any other project - get teh design in, cost it, agree contributions, sign contracts if happy / walk away if not.

I'm sure many prooperty developers oon the forum could give more details, but that's the gist.

ps - I'm still waiting for you to prove your unfounded comments below, or withdraw them:

Quote
You've already admitted that this is nothig more than a potential marketting proposal

Bollocks. I've said nothing of the sort. Again - Prove it.

You've just proved it yourself. You've posted a marketting proposal and admitted that there are no details. 

Bollocks Sammy. The 35k / 42k capacity is the basis on which the GAA are proceeding.

As fate has it, I have just today submitted a final specification to my architect to design an extension.
When he produces his design, I will cost it, sign a contract and hopefully get some Latvian to build it.

Nothing different with the MAze, but as I say, we're getting very close to the design proposal from HOK being ready.
Whats the betting that it will be published at the end of the month when Poots doesn't get any stadium proposals from Belfast that cater for all three sports.

[snatter]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 09:31:21 PM
Think again. The vast majority of fans who will use the Maze stadium (using latest 2005 attendance figures as quoted earlier), will be GAA fans originating from the rural south and western counties of Northern Ireland. It will lead to much less congestion if they don't have to travel into Belfast.

The numbers travelling from Belfast will be small and insignificant in comparison, eg for NI soccer matches

It doesn't matter if you're travelling from Belfast, Derry, Armagh, Dublin or London, there is no way of getting a crowd to the Maze and no budget or capacity to fix it. That is the whole crux of the issue.

As I said, the numbers travelling from Belfast ( or London ) will be insignificant for most matches at the Maze.
The vast vast majority of people going to the Maze will be going to watch gaelic football and congestion will be reduced if they don't have to travel into Belfast.
The M1 has a higher capacity than all roads to Clones combined, so I imagine that congestion won't be any worse than we're used to.

[SammyG]

Bollocks Sammy. The 35k / 42k capacity is the basis on which the GAA are proceeding.

How can they be proceeding if they don't know what's on offer or how much it will cost or even if it's possible.

As fate has it, I have just today submitted a final specification to my architect to design an extension.
When he produces his design, I will cost it, sign a contract and hopefully get some Latvian to build it.

Correct but that is the opposite of your Maze stance. You are accepting the Maze without any plans or costings.

Nothing different with the MAze, but as I say, we're getting very close to the design proposal from HOK being ready.
Whats the betting that it will be published at the end of the month when Poots doesn't get any stadium proposals from Belfast that cater for all three sports.

Again more nonsense. The Belfast proposal doesn't currently include the GAA, because they have said no. The option is still there for the GAA to come on board, if they wish. The Belfast developers can't be punished because one sport doesn't want to use their stadium.

[SammyG]

The M1 has a higher capacity than all roads to Clones combined, so I imagine that congestion won't be any worse than we're used to.

Are you suggesting that Clones has only one two lane road and no other access? 

[snatter]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 08:32:45 PM
As for the Maze location, it is itself a compromise on the GAA's part.
Think about it, the GAA could have stormed in and reminded everybody that we are the future anchor tenant, that we will provide most money to maintain the venue in future.
More lies, the IFA will be the anchor tennant not the GAA. The GAA will only use the stadium when required.

Imo, there's no dispute that the GAA will be the anchor tenant.
An anchor tenant is one who draws the crowds in and makes a development viable, eg supports subsidiary profit generators like bars / cafes, etc.
On a footfall basis, on the figures from the probable 2005 mathces I gave you earlier, the GAA would bring in 350k + versus the IFA's 35k.

Oh and here's the definition of an anchor tenant to confirm my reasoning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_tenant

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Gweyltah - thats nonsense. The only reason some gaa people are against the stadium is because we are already well catered for and are not sure if we need another stadium. There's also no way the gaa will agree to a stadium in Belfast - big matches are based around a relaxed atmosphere before the game and each possible location in Belfast would mean having to pass close to loyalist areas and there would be the potential for attacks/trouble.

[snatter]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 09:49:49 PM
The M1 has a higher capacity than all roads to Clones combined, so I imagine that congestion won't be any worse than we're used to.
Are you suggesting that Clones has only one two lane road and no other access?  Shocked

Not at all - the capacity of a route is related to the perceived number of vehicles it can safely carry per hour.
I didn't think I'd have to explain that one to you.

[SammyG]

Not at all - the capacity of a route is related to the perceived number of vehicles it can safely carry per hour.

Exactly, so explain to me how one two lane road, can carry the same capacity as all the roads in Clones (or any other town or city in Ireland)?

[snatter]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 09:44:39 PM
As fate has it, I have just today submitted a final specification to my architect to design an extension.
When he produces his design, I will cost it, sign a contract and hopefully get some Latvian to build it.
Correct but that is the opposite of your Maze stance. You are accepting the Maze without any plans or costings.

Sammy,

are you quick to type and slow to read?

I've said many times ( in this thread alone) that all three bodies will have to decide the basis on which to proceed (or not proceed) once the design proposal is produced by HOK, costed, and contrbution levels have been agreed between all stakeholders.
Keep up.

[snatter]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 10:02:59 PM
Not at all - the capacity of a route is related to the perceived number of vehicles it can safely carry per hour.

Exactly, so explain to me how one two lane road, can carry the same capacity as all the roads in Clones (or any other town or city in Ireland)?

The M1 is a motorway that allows safe passing, higher speeds and therefore higher capacity.
As any GAA fan knows, the roads around Clones don't allow safe passing and high speeds.
The joining capacity post-event would be lower at Clones.

[SammyG]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 09:44:39 PM
As fate has it, I have just today submitted a final specification to my architect to design an extension.
When he produces his design, I will cost it, sign a contract and hopefully get some Latvian to build it.
Correct but that is the opposite of your Maze stance. You are accepting the Maze without any plans or costings.

Sammy,

are you quick to type and slow to read?

I've said many times ( in this thread alone) that all three bodies will have to decide the basis on which to proceed (or not proceed) once the design proposal is produced by HOK, costed, and contrbution levels have been agreed between all stakeholders.
Keep up.

Right this a new strategy to completely change your argument and agree with me. Interesting tactic.  A few posts ago it was all agreed.

[SammyG]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 10:02:59 PM
Not at all - the capacity of a route is related to the perceived number of vehicles it can safely carry per hour.

Exactly, so explain to me how one two lane road, can carry the same capacity as all the roads in Clones (or any other town or city in Ireland)?

The M1 is a motorway that allows safe passing, higher speeds and therefore higher capacity.
As any GAA fan knows, the roads around Clones don't allow safe passing and high speeds.
The joining capacity post-event would be lower at Clones.

What has the capacity of the M1 got to do with anything? The M1 won't go to the Maze or have you seen some new 'proposal', that you're going to quote as fact?

[snatter]

The Belfast proposal doesn't currently include the GAA, because they have said no. The option is still there for the GAA to come on board, if they wish. The Belfast developers can't be punished because one sport doesn't want to use their stadium.

Sammy,

afaik, at no stage were the GAA invited or approached in any way about the Durnian proposal.
To ignore the largest spectator sport in NI, and all the revenue they bring,  shows that they never had any intention of GAA involvment.
From the outset the Durnian proposal had a 22k capacity - much too low to be of any use to the GAA (again see 2005 figures), but just big enough to recreate another mini Windsor).

Oh, and as if you were in any doubt, and as Evil Genus has already pointed out in this thread - the Ormeau developemnt isn't (and never was) big enough to accommodate gaelic games.
Yep, despite being surropunded by open parkland, they managed to select a plot that was just too small.
No coincidence there - they never wanted a gaelic player about the place.

[snatter]

Quote from: snatter on Today at 09:44:39 PM
As fate has it, I have just today submitted a final specification to my architect to design an extension.
When he produces his design, I will cost it, sign a contract and hopefully get some Latvian to build it.
Correct but that is the opposite of your Maze stance. You are accepting the Maze without any plans or costings.

Sammy,

are you quick to type and slow to read?

I've said many times ( in this thread alone) that all three bodies will have to decide the basis on which to proceed (or not proceed) once the design proposal is produced by HOK, costed, and contrbution levels have been agreed between all stakeholders.
Keep up.

Right this a new strategy to completely change your argument and agree with me. Interesting tactic.  A few posts ago it was all agreed.

No Sammy,

go back and read again - the design specifications were all agreed. The project would proceed to the next stage on that basis. The next stage (as with all development proposals) will put meat on the bones.
All parties to agree / disagree once the design has been costed and terms proposed.
I've consistently being saying that to you - not just in this thread, but for months.

[SammyG]

No Sammy,

go back and read again - the design specifications were all agreed.

How can the design specifications be agreed if they haven't even been written yet?