Prisoner admits attempted murder of Ian Huntley

[seafoid]

Do people like Huntley forfeit the right to life if they kill a child ?

I wonder what the proportion of psychopaths in the typical prison population is. There seem to be a sizeable number in the corporate world as well.

I honestly think they should.  I dont support the death penalty as such, but have no sympathy for anyone who murders, rapes or abuses children.  I would not spare a thought for them no matter what way they meet their end.  I would even include people that look at "child pornography" in this category.  The very name takes away from the offence that it actually is. It is not pornography.  Every image of this nature is a crime scene, every image, is the rape or abuse of an innocent child, and those that view them for the purposes of sexual gratification are participating fully in that crime and they should be punished accordingly.  Which should be life in prison as they will always pose a danger to the most important part of our society, our children.
The law does not protect innocent people.  As suspended sentences are handed out for viewing child abuse, and sentences of only a couple of years are handed out for some instances of child abuse including rape.
Tell me what would you do if a convicted paedophile who was sentenced for viewing images of children moved in to a house close where you were raising a family?  I think you would be mad to do nothing.  I can tell you that I could live with the shame of murdering that individual a lot easier than the shame if I did nothing and he went on to abuse one of my children knowing you could have prevented it.

Where would you draw the line?  People who make money out of child porn ?
Should war mongers be executed too ? And people who run brothels in rural Ireland with trafficked women who are kept as slaves ?

[screenmachine]

Kill them.  Kill them all.

[haranguerer]

^^^ Yeah, what he said ballbag. 

Brilliant - still someone else doing the thinking for you and you call me ballbag 

Even more ironic because what he said doesnt make any sense whatsoever. He seems to be trying to support your point of view that if you had nothing to lose in terms of a prison term you would be esentially justified in killing someone like Huntley, but according to him, only if you were ' a wee bit nutty and your moral compass isnt pointing north'.

So presumably then, you are claiming these attributes for yourself?

[screenmachine]

You seem to be the only one that can't make sense of it to be honest?  If you want to play word games dodge on to the Countdown thread and make a nuisance of yourself there.

[HiMucker]

Do people like Huntley forfeit the right to life if they kill a child ?

I wonder what the proportion of psychopaths in the typical prison population is. There seem to be a sizeable number in the corporate world as well.

I honestly think they should.  I dont support the death penalty as such, but have no sympathy for anyone who murders, rapes or abuses children.  I would not spare a thought for them no matter what way they meet their end.  I would even include people that look at "child pornography" in this category.  The very name takes away from the offence that it actually is. It is not pornography.  Every image of this nature is a crime scene, every image, is the rape or abuse of an innocent child, and those that view them for the purposes of sexual gratification are participating fully in that crime and they should be punished accordingly.  Which should be life in prison as they will always pose a danger to the most important part of our society, our children.
The law does not protect innocent people.  As suspended sentences are handed out for viewing child abuse, and sentences of only a couple of years are handed out for some instances of child abuse including rape.
Tell me what would you do if a convicted paedophile who was sentenced for viewing images of children moved in to a house close where you were raising a family?  I think you would be mad to do nothing.  I can tell you that I could live with the shame of murdering that individual a lot easier than the shame if I did nothing and he went on to abuse one of my children knowing you could have prevented it.

Where would you draw the line?  People who make money out of child porn ?
Should war mongers be executed too ? And people who run brothels in rural Ireland with trafficked women who are kept as slaves ?

I have drawn my line, Il leave the sex traffickers and war mongers for another debate!
People who make money out of child abuse should be dealt with just as harshly.  But they are not the same as the abusers.  As in if they could make money easily by other means they would or if circumstances were different.  Were an abuser, no matter what job he/she takes, where they live or how much their lifestyle changes they will not change. 

[HiMucker]

^^^ Yeah, what he said ballbag. 

Brilliant - still someone else doing the thinking for you and you call me ballbag 

Even more ironic because what he said doesnt make any sense whatsoever. He seems to be trying to support your point of view that if you had nothing to lose in terms of a prison term you would be esentially justified in killing someone like Huntley, but according to him, only if you were ' a wee bit nutty and your moral compass isnt pointing north'.

So presumably then, you are claiming these attributes for yourself?

"If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools...."
I never mentioned justification.  If you cant understand why someone might do something like that, then I cant help you.

[haranguerer]

Screen, I can make perfect sense of what I think of the issue. Thats because its my own point of view and I've thought about why I hold it, its not some populist view that I've jumped on knowing it has the support of the wider public and makes me sound hard.

To clarify what I cant make sense of, in your original post you stated that the only thing holding you back from killing someone like Huntley is a prison sentence, a few posts later you altered your point of view to say you'd just meant you could understand why a psychopathic criminal might try to kill him. So are you claiming to be a psychopathic criminal, or did you radically change your view in such a short space of time? If the latter, then you really cant have much courage in your convictions, so theres little reason for listening to anything you say on the topic.

And Himucker, are you really saying your post and the others you have posted since dont attempt to essentially justify killing child killers/abusers? It seems you 'can't bear to hear the truth you've spoken after all', and although its not my intention to make a trap it seems everything is interpreted as such by those very same fools....

Understanding why someone might do that is very different to condoning it. I can understand it, but still think it wrong, and bad for society. Do you understand why someone might for e.g. kill a child?

Do you both really think society would be improved if child killers abusers etc were executed, or if a blind eye was turned to their 'accidental' deaths in prison?

Seeing as you love the quotes mucker 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'.

Its a serious question, tempting as it is I'm sure it will be to accuse me of twisting your words, or beng a paedo, etc etc, i'd have a lot more respect for yous if you tried reason instead.

[HiMucker]

Right you seem to be speaking more clearly on this know.  My original post was about your man that try to kill Huntley and I could see why he might do that.  So that's keep that separate. 

Since then I gave my own personal opinion what I think should be done to child sex offenders.  Indeed it would not be good for society (which I will limit to our own wee part of the world, as I do realise that the issues of child abuse, and child trafficking are alot more complexed in other parts of the world, like Cambodia or Thailand), but I feel that the laws of the land do not protect society from these issues.  The facts will show, that the vast majority of these offenders, re offend when released from prison.  That coupled with sentencing being far too light, and the fact that many abusers were once victims of abuse themselves, then you have an escalating problem.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but it is very easy to look at these circumstances from a distance and hold the moral high ground, and say it is for the good of society.  However if you look at the most simple and most important building block of society, which is the family unit, then it is easy to understand how one might share my views.  As a parent it is your basic duty to protect your children and if the laws of the land don't cater for it what are you suppose to do?  I can tell you from experience, that when you consult the law on a paedo living in your area there is nothing they can do.  The police (and its not their fault) will tell you he has served his time, the law states that he has a right to carry on with his life.  In this instance the cop actually said, there is nothing we can do, but there is people that can sort this out for you.  So you have a cop condoning vigilantism because he understands were your coming from.
Tell me now, honestly, what you would do?  Do you say this isn't could for society and take a risk, and if something happens to one of your kids you live with the guilt of knowing you could have prevented it. 
I understand your point of view, and can accept it.  Two wrongs don't make a right, but I know that there is choices I could live with and choices I couldn't.  Can you understand this point of view?

[seafoid]

Hi Mucker

Do you think people like Huntley should be allowed to commit suicide in prison?  Apparently he tried it already.


And what do you think of the British tabloids and their fixation on Myra Hindley, Maxine Carr and Huntley  ?

[HiMucker]

Hi Mucker

Do you think people like Huntley should be allowed to commit suicide in prison?  Apparently he tried it already.


And what do you think of the British tabloids and their fixation on Myra Hindley, Maxine Carr and Huntley  ?

no, I think life imprisonment would be worse punishment

Don't have much time for the sensationalism of tabloids.  I read that 12 women who recently moved into areas were targeted because people thought it was maxine Carr.

[screenmachine]

When I made my original post I didn't intend this discussion to turn into a psychology lesson.  Basically all I was saying is this;

If, for example, a child rapist/murderer/whatever carried out said act on a member of your family I would have no problem doing this individual serious damage/killing him if the opportunity arose.  Now, this does not make it right - you play the game so you live by the rules.  If this meant going to the clink for X number of years, then so be it.  You know the risk when you get involved in this type of behaviour.

Similarly, if I was already in jail serving a lengthy sentence for another crime, let's say armed robbery as is the case with the Huntley attempted murder, and the opportunity arose to cause serious damage/kill a child rapist/murderer then I would probably think, "I'm in here already and not going anywhere fast..." You know the rest.  (May I point out at this stage that I did use the word 'if'.  This does not mean I am a psychopathic criminal nor am I claiming to be one, merely what would be a possibility if put in this situation.)

You have to take each situation on it's own merit and this is simply what I think I would do if I was indeed involved in one of the above situations.

If a child murderer/rapist/etc carried out an act like this on a member of your family and you had the opportunity to hand out some justice of your own, I find it hard to believe that anyone would just let the situation pass.

On the point of the public perception of each case, I was also merely stating that I believe that the public could find a way to easier understand why someone would kill someone in an act of revenge against a child killer/rapist rather than instead trying to understand the killing of a child.  It doesn't make it right but people can sympathise a lot easier with the revenge killing.  Twitter was rife today with people stating that when they saw Ian Huntley trending they thought he had died/been killed and were disappointed to find out it was due to this recent assault case.  If he was killed tomorrow my first thought would be, 'This sicko got what he deserved.'  I certainly wouldn't think, 'That's awful, the poor man should have been let serve his sentence and return to his community to see out the remainder of his life.'  Are you suggesting you would go down the road of the second line of thought or what angle are you approaching this from?

[Tony Baloney]

When I made my original post I didn't intend this discussion to turn into a psychology lesson.  Basically all I was saying is this;

If, for example, a child rapist/murderer/whatever carried out said act on a member of your family I would have no problem doing this individual serious damage/killing him if the opportunity arose.  Now, this does not make it right - you play the game so you live by the rules.  If this meant going to the clink for X number of years, then so be it.  You know the risk when you get involved in this type of behaviour.

Similarly, if I was already in jail serving a lengthy sentence for another crime, let's say armed robbery as is the case with the Huntley attempted murder, and the opportunity arose to cause serious damage/kill a child rapist/murderer then I would probably think, "I'm in here already and not going anywhere fast..." You know the rest.  (May I point out at this stage that I did use the word 'if'.  This does not mean I am a psychopathic criminal nor am I claiming to be one, merely what would be a possibility if put in this situation.)

You have to take each situation on it's own merit and this is simply what I think I would do if I was indeed involved in one of the above situations.

If a child murderer/rapist/etc carried out an act like this on a member of your family and you had the opportunity to hand out some justice of your own, I find it hard to believe that anyone would just let the situation pass.

On the point of the public perception of each case, I was also merely stating that I believe that the public could find a way to easier understand why someone would kill someone in an act of revenge against a child killer/rapist rather than instead trying to understand the killing of a child.  It doesn't make it right but people can sympathise a lot easier with the revenge killing.  Twitter was rife today with people stating that when they saw Ian Huntley trending they thought he had died/been killed and were disappointed to find out it was due to this recent assault case.  If he was killed tomorrow my first thought would be, 'This sicko got what he deserved.'  I certainly wouldn't think, 'That's awful, the poor man should have been let serve his sentence and return to his community to see out the remainder of his life.'  Are you suggesting you would go down the road of the second line of thought or what angle are you approaching this from?

+1. Unrepentant child molesters/killers deserve everything they get. I know a fella did time and he said the fellas in the canteen put ground up glass in the "nonces" dinner. Proper order.

[gallsman]

I clearly stated that it would still be wrong to carry out a revenge murder. I simply added to this point that it would be easier to justify your reasons to someone if this was an act of revenge rather than a random killing of a child. Not that it would matter, it would still be wrong but a different type of wrong. Some would even say it's right. Or is it left?

Your initial point mentioned nothing of revenge, you just said if you were in for life, one of the possible reasons for which could be committing murder. I see no difference between a murderer or rapist whether is victim is a child, adult or OAP.

[Tony Baloney]

I clearly stated that it would still be wrong to carry out a revenge murder. I simply added to this point that it would be easier to justify your reasons to someone if this was an act of revenge rather than a random killing of a child. Not that it would matter, it would still be wrong but a different type of wrong. Some would even say it's right. Or is it left?

Your initial point mentioned nothing of revenge, you just said if you were in for life, one of the possible reasons for which could be committing murder. I see no difference between a murderer or rapist whether is victim is a child, adult or OAP.

The criminal fraternity see a huge difference, which is why sex offenders are kept in separate wings/units.

I really don't get why everyone is picking up on what screen has said. I don't find any of it outlandish.

[gallsman]

I clearly stated that it would still be wrong to carry out a revenge murder. I simply added to this point that it would be easier to justify your reasons to someone if this was an act of revenge rather than a random killing of a child. Not that it would matter, it would still be wrong but a different type of wrong. Some would even say it's right. Or is it left?

Your initial point mentioned nothing of revenge, you just said if you were in for life, one of the possible reasons for which could be committing murder. I see no difference between a murderer or rapist whether is victim is a child, adult or OAP.

The criminal fraternity see a huge difference, which is why sex offenders are kept in separate wings/units.

I really don't get why everyone is picking up on what screen has said. I don't find any of it outlandish.

He appears to specifically focusing on murderers/rapists whose victims are children. Assuming he's not a member of the "criminal fraternity" I'm curious as to why he's happily shared that he would do in a few child murderers/rapists but has said nothing regarding murderers/rapists whose victims are adults.