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Cahair isn't far off the mark with his latest article, a quarter full owenbeg does nothing for the atmosphere. There shouldn't be a game played there before the SF stage.

Is Owenbeg really the reason for the atmosphere? Perhaps if some of the clubs decided to play a bit of decent football it would help. Not a lot at the minute to enthuse the supporters.

People talk about how great Glen is. How many on here were at the Ballinderry v Banagher league play off? A big crowd but the atmosphere was shocking. Why? Not Watty Graham Park's fault? It was because the game was so one sided, the game as a whole was poor and nothing more. Have we heard that this season? Nearly every Derry senior game this season. Wouldn't have mattered where you would have watched the Senior games last weekend the atmosphere would have been dismal. A team of dancing cheerleaders with a firework show wouldn't have brightened up the games, particularly the Kilrea and Loup games.

The atmosphere is poor because the games are poor!!! As for Cahair how would he know how full Owenbeg is? Sure he spends most of his time in his beloved County Down. He would write anything for a few clicks and likes.

Disagree, I'd say there would be a better crowd and atmosphere if some of the early round games were held in Glen, Bellaghy, Ballinascreen, Magherafelt, Slaughtneil etc. The matches over the last weekend or two haven't been great but the weather has been atrocious. People seem to be comparing to the tyrone championship but they've had quite a few poor one sided games also. Dungannon trillick was a great match but that was 2 teams in the top 3 in the league drawn against each other and they were both in the top 4 teams with the bookies.

Joe Brolly on 2 pointers

https://archive.is/iSkZq

On Friday night in the Tyrone senior league, Dungannon beat Trillick 0-25 to 0-17. Trillick lost heavily, despite kicking the ball over the bar more times than Dungannon and playing the better football.
They lost because Dungannon have a two-point specialist, Paul Donaghy, who scored nine two-pointers. Dungannon's other scorers on the night managed 0-1 apiece. All of Trillick's scores, like Donegal's in the All-Ireland final, were one-pointers. Trillick put the ball over the bar 17 times. Dungannon put the ball over the bar just 16 times, yet beat Trillick by eight points, a humiliation in a game where Trillick were the better team.
Two-pointers are skewing the fairness of the contest. Knockmore played Balla in the first round of the Mayo senior championship and with a few minutes to go to half-time had built a five-point lead against a strong wind and a strong opposition. Then, Balla were awarded two frees in succession outside the 40-metre arc and floated them over in the gale. When the ref blew the half-time whistle there was only a point in it and it felt weird.
If a team is fortunate enough to have a two-point specialist, they now have an enormous advantage. A free 41 metres out is almost as good as a goal and far less bother. A free 41 metres out with a gale at your back is a cinch. If the referee moves the ball forward 50 metres for the ball not being handed back promptly or a remark by a player, then a two-point specialist can bring it back out to the 40-metre line and exact a scarcely fair punishment.
The two-point specialist in Mayo is Evan Regan, or Tony Yeboah as I call him, since his left foot reminds me of Yeboah's thunderous comic book volleys when he played for Leeds. In the Stephenites first-round game against Ballyhaunis, he scored five two-pointers, four in the first half with the wind, which killed the game.
For Evan, anywhere from 60 metres in is a straightforward putt. Outside of the boot, instep, it matters not. In an era when anything that might remotely be physical contact is a free, he is an extraordinary weapon, again skewing the natural balance of the contest.
I think back to when I was playing. Anthony Tohill, 6'5", built like Captain America, could sweep frees over the bar from 60 metres at his cush. If there had been two-pointers then, how many more games would we have won? How many championships? Or Bryan Sheehan, the Cahirsiveen phenomenon whose long frees were a fairground attraction.
Joe Brolly: Bad news for the rest is that Kerry look like they're just getting started
It is clear from this first season of the new rules that it is imperative to find and develop two-point specialists, like the kickers in American football. Teams at all levels that have such a kicker will have a huge advantage. An advantage that they do not have to earn in the traditional way — by playing better football than the opposition.
A two-point specialist, regardless of his general ability, is now absolutely worth it. It no longer matters if you are being outplayed. And if you have a gale-force wind blowing, then a two-point specialist can win the game in a single half.
Jim Gavin's rationale behind the two-point score was that it would draw defences out and force them to defend the 40-metre arc. I agree with this, but that rationale only extends to scores from play and 40 metres is too close for specialists. I would therefore keep the two-pointer from play but move it back five metres creating a 45-metre arc.
However, two-point frees are unjustifiable. Worse again is the option to move the free back out to the 40-metre arc when the referee has advanced the ball 50 metres. Again, this is a thoroughly unworked-for advantage. The normal principles of any sporting contest are fairness, that the scoring system broadly reflects the balance of the play, and that the scores are created/deserved. This does not apply to two-point frees, where a specialist kicker can and often does win the game on those alone.
In the All-Ireland final this year, Kerry had two two-point specialists. Donegal had none. In spite of the fact that Donegal kicked the ball over the bar the same number of times as Kerry, like Trillick on Friday night, they lost heavily. What would ordinarily have been a titanic contest was instead a terrible anti-climax because of those two-point specialists. Kerry advanced behind that spearhead, growing in confidence after every two-point dagger.
Under the traditional scoring system, the half-time score would have been 0-13 to 0-10. Instead it was 0-17 to 0-10. Crucially, however, Donegal were psychologically shattered by the two-pointers. Kerry scored six two-pointers. Donegal had none. Without those two-pointers the final score would have been 1-20 to 0-19, and do not forget that the Kerry goal came at the very end when Donegal had abandoned all hope.
The new rules have revived the corpse of Gaelic football. But when the scoring system does not broadly reflect the balance of play, when instead of being a fair contest it becomes a skills test for a small number of two-point specialists, what exactly is the point?

Very strange comments from brolly. The 2 pointers were a big difference in the AI final but they were down to tactics more than individual skills. Donegal have several players well capable of kicking 2 pointers and had done in previous matches but had obviously decided they could get their scores more efficiently closer in. It seemed that Jim mcg had decided that shooting from outside the arc was too risky because there were a number of times donegal could've gone for it. As for Trillick I'd say they have a few players like lee brennan who could easily kick 2 pointers. It's down to management tactics whether or not they go for them but it can also be down to the defensive team not allowing the opportunities. I would say when trillick play dungannon in the championship paul donaghy will struggle to get close to tht number of 2 pointers. The rules are in their infancy so personally I'd like to see them stay for a couple of seasons at least before making too many more changes.

I'd be surprised if the 2 point free survives until next year.

I would be extremely surprised if it doesn't survive. Removing it would give teams a license to foul just outside the scoring zone. The new rules have reduced cynicism so keeping the 2 point free is a must.

Is the Mfelt keeper putting his hands up for county bck up. We been needing somebody to clock over 2 pointed frees. Though our last forerae into a outfield keeper in nets didn't go well!

He's their 3rd choice, great striker of the ball though

He started the past couple of years in the half forward/half back line. 2 cruciates at a young age really hampered his senior development. I believe Mfelt's keepers are both out for the year so have had to draft him in.

Fair play to him for putting his hand up and going in goal. That's probably his best game in goal for us. The 2 point frees are massive in the game now so if he can get consistency he could be an option at county. James Murray, Rory small and cahir spiers could possibly go into the county next year but certainly in the next couple of years.

From an article in the Irish Times by a player who participated in the sandbox games
"Then, for the final 20 minutes, another rule was introduced: a player receiving a hand pass would have to kick pass. In other words a team could not play two hand passes in a row.

This led to more chaos, more verticality and more turnovers, and it was probably the most enjoyable part to play in."

- You would hope that an entire sport wouldn't be changed on the basis of a 20 minute trial.

Of all the potential rule changes discussed the past 2 years, this is by some distance the most seismic.

I don't even know if it's a bad idea or not, for it's just too big to consider properly. I do see how it would hand some of the initiatives back to defenders: it's one less option to consider on every other tackle.

But I don't know how a club in e.g. coastal Donegal would go about resetting their entire footballing principles, nor do I see how a 25 year old could rewire 20 years of practice without regularly losing the plot. And my biggest worry of all would be that we would inevitably see handpassing being replaced by ponderous and ugly 5 yard kick passes.

We can't loose the three man weave!

I wouldn't agree with this potential change at all, while I like a kicking based game there is a lot of skill and beauty in a well executed, swift running or hand passing game.

It's the side to side stuff that is shite and that Dan happen in a kicking game!

Jesus just bring in a shot clock.


.

Even with all the rule changes which have been welcomed by most the latter stages of the championship were disappointing. The biggest issue I have is it's still way too easy for teams to keep possession. We're now seeing teams getting the ball with 2 minutes to the halftime hooter and they just play keep ball until the hooter goes and then they try for a score. With the better teams it's impossible to get the ball off them. That's why this rule of a hand pass followed by a kick pass is definitely worth looking at. The game will more than likely be more scrappy and disjointed but there should be more contests for possession. It's definitely worth looking at anyway because the scourge of long periods of possession is still in the game and it's boring to watch.

the reason why you've never broke through is because you don't have decent forwards. McGuigan is top class but in reality he is the only one. That being said I think Loughlin is massively under rated and Toner adds a lot work rate wise. Murray is never fit and with him being so young the question really is will he ever be. McFaul is not really a forward. Doherty is decent enough but not fantastic.

What do you mean by break through? I think you really mean win the AI because 2 Ulster titles and a division 1 title in the last 4 seasons isn't too bad for a team that you say hasn't broken through. We have far better forwards than we're given credit for. Paul Cassidy has loads of talent and Ethan Doherty is in the top 5 or 6 half forwards in the country when he's fully fit.

Derry a parody at this stage. Ciaran Meenagh appointment confirmed. Definition of insanity: repeating the same behaviour and expectating different results. Is there no-one in Derry capable of managing the county team? Tír Eoghain abú!

Is there no one in tyrone capable of managing tyrone. Sure yous have made a fermanagh man the highest paid manager in the country and he's taken you down to division two and embarrassed yourselves in croke park.

Tyrone managers for 4 All Irelands and this year's All Ireland U17 and U20. Derry without a win in 2025 talks of embarrassing.
 Try harder 

Yous ignored your successful u20 manager to spend big going outside the county. Under some pressure to deliver next year.

Derry a parody at this stage. Ciaran Meenagh appointment confirmed. Definition of insanity: repeating the same behaviour and expectating different results. Is there no-one in Derry capable of managing the county team? Tír Eoghain abú!

Is there no one in tyrone capable of managing tyrone. Sure yous have made a fermanagh man the highest paid manager in the country and he's taken you down to division two and embarrassed yourselves in croke park.

Confirmed where exactly lol

Should probably just keep quiet in future.

Nice calm evening and you're getting ratty about it 

Meant myself, its irrelevant in any case as Derry have missed the boat like Galway.

IMO we are in an era of wide open Championship football for the next few years, so wouldn't agree that the ship has sailed for either Derry or Galway. Hope I am right with the former anyhow!!
Whoever the new management team are I will be getting fully behind them and the team.  We will all have our opinions on management personnel etc but at the end of the day we are starting afresh and I would hope with plenty of desire and enthusiasm. At the end of the day we can never be sure how a management team will work out despite their previous reputations with other teams etc.   Different environments can create different outcomes and all that. When the league comes around in January and we make our way through that then I will start making judgements. Doire Abu

Agreed, we're probably not in the top 3 or 4 teams just now but we're in the top 10 for sure and if we get ourselves organised again we can be in the top 4 again. The biggest thing for me is we're getting someone in who isn't completely new to the players, so he won't be starting from square one, and someone they're going to be happy with. The appointment has also been completed fairly quickly so it'll allow the new management to watch the complete club championship and identify if there's 3 or 4 new players who would add to the squad.

Definitely looking forward to this one as it's hard to call. The football has generally been really good this year apart from the semifinals. With the hurling final being poor enough I think we're set for a great football final. I honestly can't call this one, Donegal will definitely have a plan for clifford and kerry will try to nullify murphy.

Did McKaigue take the Maghera team that had so many complaints just before the rules changed in a game derided by many??
Was he not a leader in the recruitment of Devlin & Harte?
Was he leading & training with players during the manager hunt in the autumn, only to retire when Tally was named?
And if I remember correctly he was at fault for a goal last year because he was looking at the player while the ball was kicked to an empty net from distance.

From a very distant view he doesn't strike me as the answer you are looking for.
Nor McMahon for what it's worth.

McKaigue managed an unfancied maghera team to a hogan cup this year playing superb football. That shows he has managerial skills. The rest of the garbage you've written is completely irrelevant.

[I'd take Philly McMahon in a heartbeat tbh]

Heard on the grapevine from one off PTs ex backroom staff that its Philly Mc Mahon with a couple off his own trusted men,and a derry contigent off Mc Kaigue,D Mc Erlain and Lockhart in the backroom team

I hope the grapevine is incorrect. That would be a disastrous appointment.

I'd take Philly McMahon in a heartbeat tbh

With the gap between Tally being roaded and now, looks like the CB has dropped the ball again

Why?

Tail will never wag the dog

Good knowledge of the game. Would bring in top coaches

Knows what it takes to get to and stay at the pinnacle.. Will expect no less from anyone in the squad

He's 37 and has never even coached a club team. What planet are you on?

"Tail will never wag the dog" - Based on what? What does that even mean?

By your arguments would you have Brian Fenton as manager? Or Dean Rock? Or Sean Cavanagh?

Totally agree Phil, he should get some experience at club level first to see if he has what it takes to manage a team of players. Derry shouldn't be used as guinea pigs for his first job because that could go wrong very quickly. I'd be very happy with Meenagh and Mckaigue if that's true.

[I'd take Philly McMahon in a heartbeat tbh]

Heard on the grapevine from one off PTs ex backroom staff that its Philly Mc Mahon with a couple off his own trusted men,and a derry contigent off Mc Kaigue,D Mc Erlain and Lockhart in the backroom team

I hope the grapevine is incorrect. That would be a disastrous appointment.

I'd take Philly McMahon in a heartbeat tbh

With the gap between Tally being roaded and now, looks like the CB has dropped the ball again

Why?

Tail will never wag the dog

Good knowledge of the game. Would bring in top coaches

Knows what it takes to get to and stay at the pinnacle.. Will expect no less from anyone in the squad

Yes, from a player's point of view which is completely different to how to manage a team to get there. He's a complete rookie so it would be a total gamble. Ferguson got United to the top, kept them there. Keane played under him for years and was a complete and utter failure in management. We should be appointing someone with management experience ideally at as hish a level as possible and preferably someone who's been successful.

Heard on the grapevine from one off PTs ex backroom staff that its Philly Mc Mahon with a couple off his own trusted men,and a derry contigent off Mc Kaigue,D Mc Erlain and Lockhart in the backroom team

Has McMahon been involved with any teams previously?

No, he has no experience of management but he played under a great manager so somebody thinks that means he'll be a great manager too. Bit like ferguson and keane.

2 poor semi finals but at least we have the 2 best teams in the country in the final. Its very hard to call so Im hoping for a good final, I suspect McGuinness may park the bus (all 11 allowed) initially to try and smother Clifford. As we have seen the new rules really help Kerry and think this will help open the game up eventually and could be a real end to end classic as both sides are very well matched.

I find it very difficult to call but with no real confidence I would edge towards Kerry.

After 2 walkovers in the semi finals I'm really hoping for a good final. I think it will be a great match as both teams are in good form and won't lack in belief.