Bertie to Resign

belleaqua · April 03, 2008, 02:15:45 PM

This argument that you can't apply modern day standards in public office to the "bad" old days is nonsense. Jaysus when the kids do something wrong you'd say to them just because Johnny did it doesn't make it right". He knew it was wrong to take the money at the time and if he didn't well then that's even worse judgement.

I dont dispute that, in fact I agree with all you say there. It was wrong to take the money, he had to resign, no question. However I personally do not believe he was corrupt, silly..yes...foolish yes. I think the Mahon Tribunal will find the same and I think political opposition is the same...Eamon Gilmore acknowledged that yesterday.

As for the comments regarding Haughey, Lawlor and Burke...I really despair. Guilty by association??

Zapatista · April 03, 2008, 04:54:10 PM

Quote from: belleaqua on April 03, 2008, 01:34:44 PM
I believe Bertie Ahern's position as Taoiseach was untenable and was detracting from the business of government and the running of the country.

The tribunal became a distraction from running the country. This distraction then became a distraction from the tribunal. The distraction originated and was fueled by Ahern and his complicated and conflicting answers to simple questions. Therefore Ahern and his actions are responsible for the distractions leaving his position untenable.

Ahern and Haughey are inextricably linked. You only have to look at the state funeral we provided for CJH to see that.

Declan · April 03, 2008, 05:11:57 PM

QuoteAs for the comments regarding Haughey, Lawlor and Burke...I really despair. Guilty by association??

Yes in my mind he is guilty of being an accomplice in fraudulent behaviour

mackers · April 03, 2008, 05:12:24 PM

As a northerner looking in I think some of the chat on here is way OTT. I'd be with Pangur Ban on this. Sure there are problems with the Health Service but name me a country that there aren't any. Some simple questions:
If he was on the take, where is all the money he got? He doesn't seem to be living an extragavent life a la Haughey.
Is Ireland a better place than in 1997?

As I said, looking at it from the northern perspective there has been great economic growth with better transport infrastructure and he played no small part in stopping the Troubles up here (he and Blair showed great patience dealing with the numpties up here). He came from his mother's funeral to continue the negotiations (above and beyond the call of duty).

He was a man of the people which is why he got re-elected three times in a row, the FG heads about here are showing there jealousy big time!

Zapatista · April 03, 2008, 05:27:46 PM

Quote from: mackers on April 03, 2008, 05:12:24 PM

If he was on the take, where is all the money he got? He doesn't seem to be living an extragavent life a la Haughey.

He was a man of the people which is why he got re-elected three times in a row, the FG heads about here are showing there jealousy big time!

That must be expensive

Louth Exile · April 03, 2008, 06:28:29 PM

Quote from: Declan on April 03, 2008, 05:11:57 PM
QuoteAs for the comments regarding Haughey, Lawlor and Burke...I really despair. Guilty by association??

Yes in my mind he is guilty of being an accomplice in fraudulent behaviour

Was there anyone more vociferous in the defence of Ray Burke at the time

I don't think so!

stephenite · April 03, 2008, 09:59:01 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 03, 2008, 08:25:46 AM
Sure they're already after Cowan's brother...

If Cowan's bother payed his taxes like everyone else he wouldn't be in the position, this notion that it's only FF'ers getting done for tax evasion is paranoid nonsense

Declan · April 04, 2008, 07:16:47 AM

I see Bertie readmitted that paragon of virtue and public service Beverley back into the FF fold as well. class act

Louth Exile · April 04, 2008, 10:24:28 AM

Thank the lord for small mercies, Biffo has no time for her, she will be stuck on the back benches, this talk of her getting a junior ministry is scuppered now anyway!

blast05 · April 04, 2008, 01:33:21 PM

QuoteHowever I personally do not believe he was corrupt, silly..yes...foolish yes.

I'd love to know what the definition of corruption is so.
He took money where he shouldn't have and under his own definition of corruption given to the Dail a few years back, then he is corrupt.

I used to like him but over the last 2 years that like has been replaced with contempt for a man who is the slyest most cynical fcuker in the Dail. Only yesterday he tried to cloud the whole Grainne Carruth affair where everything he said was lies and self serving.

There are some small graces - the fact that he got a very bad press throughout all of Europe yesterday - where every paper made it clear there he resigned cos he was corrupt - means i reckon that it is unlikely he will ever get a senior post in Europe. And if the man is ever elected president then i will emigrate.

And to give an opinion on another thing - imho his only positive legacy was Northern Ireland. The Celtic Tiger economy was fcuk all to do with FF. It was all about our unique demogrpahic and corporation tax which the rainbow got rolling. The 12.5% rate was only brought in under McCreevey on a European directive as we had different rates of corporation tax for different sectors

Zapatista · April 04, 2008, 02:12:20 PM

I promised myself I wouldn't post here anymore. I have only broke that promise for the comic value of this email I got.

To the tune of 'I Will Survive'

First I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking Mahon would find out
About my takings on the side
And I spent so many nights
Thinking how I got it wrong
But I grew strong
When I learned how to play along
But then the banks
Those fecking gays
They went and showed the jaysis court
That I got cash from the UK
I shouldn't have lodged that bloody sterling
I could've spent it on me holidays
If I had known for just one second
All the questions it would raise
So off I go, I'll walk out the door
I'll go to ground now
'Cause I'm not welcome anymore
Weren't you the ones who said it's time to say goodbye?
Health service crumbled
Property market died
Oh no! Now I
I will resign
Now the shit has hit the fan
And the country's in decline
I've done my share of theft
And no credibility left
So I'll resign
I will resign
It took all the guile I had
To look the injured part
Keep trying to pretend
The public broke my heart
And I spend oh so many nights
Just looking sorry for myself
But I'm good at lyin'
Inside I'm laughing all the time
And you'll soon see me
Somebody new
I'll get my government pension
Hey I'm not done with screwing you
I know how to milk the state
I learned all yer tricks, Haughey
Now I'm saving all my backhanders
For an island off Kerry
Ho ho! Now I
I will resign
And I'll get three hundred grand
Instead of doing any time
I've got an easy life to live
Two fucks I couldn't give
About your cryin'
When I resign...

It's only a bit of criac

Leo · April 04, 2008, 02:24:37 PM

Or this one..

To the tune of Marvin Gaye's "Abraham, Martin and John".

Has anybody here seen my old friend Charlie?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He fleeced a lot of people
And his bagman he died young
I just looked around and he was gone.

Has anybody here seen my old friend Raphael?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He took a lot of bunging
And he didn't give receipts
I just looked around and he was gone.

Has anybody here seen my old friend PeeFlynn?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He got a lot of money
On behalf of Fianna Fail
They just looked around and it was gone.

Has anybody here seen my old friend Bertie?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He did a lot of diggin'
But Mahon he did more
We just looked around and he was gone.

Has anybody here seen my old friend Bev?
Can you tell me where she's gone? .....

(change to Flannery's Ball)
Bertie stepped out and Bev stepped in again.
Bertie stepped out and Bev stepped in again
Bertie stepped out and Bev stepped in again
Learnin' to dance with Fianna Fail

stew · April 04, 2008, 02:38:59 PM

Bertie should be convicted for crimes against the state. He is a gangster, a liar and a sc**bag. The politicians on the island of Ireland are every bit as bad as the ones in the states and if you are the leader of a country and you rip off the people of that country as far as I am concerned you should be hung for treason.

Old Bill · April 04, 2008, 02:44:17 PM

Quote from: stew on April 04, 2008, 02:38:59 PM
Bertie should be convicted for crimes against the state. He is a gangster, a liar and a sc**bag. The politicians on the island of Ireland are every bit as bad as the ones in the states and if you are the leader of a country and you rip off the people of that country as far as I am concerned you should be hung for treason.

harsh harsh too harsh. hangin in this day and age? catch a grip man!

Rav67 · April 04, 2008, 07:51:33 PM

Quote from: blast05 on April 04, 2008, 01:33:21 PM
And if the man is ever elected president then i will emigrate.

Quote from: stew on April 04, 2008, 02:38:59 PM
Bertie should be convicted for crimes against the state. He is a gangster, a liar and a sc**bag. The politicians on the island of Ireland are every bit as bad as the ones in the states and if you are the leader of a country and you rip off the people of that country as far as I am concerned you should be hung for treason.

Wise up!