They wouldn't let GAA into schools now would they?

[snatter]

Surely there is no need for that anymore, and i think Sammy has a right to say that it should be changed, I wouldnt say he's a bigot. Its just a small rule a few lines in a book.

He wouldn't be a bigot for wanting that rule changed to something less threatening to unionists, say by removing the National Identity and/or 32 counties bits.
(Although, as has been said here many many times - wtf does a National Identity mean in the first place? and is rugby not played in a 32 county Ireland? anyway lets put these aside to a different thread.)

Sammy would be a bigot, however, if he chose to pretend that these rules somehow stopped his children / his teachers friends, etc from playing gaelic games in state schools in NI.
He has been informed dozens of times in this and other threads that there are no barriers that prevent NI schools form playing gaelic games.

Sammy however has severe problems accepting this and is going out of his way to manufacture false excuses to justify keeping gaelic games out of NI state schools.
I can see no reason other than bigotry as to why that might be the case.
He certainly hasn't come up with any genuine reasons why NI state schools should remain free of native irish sports.

As you are probably by now aware, no state schools in NI have ever played gaelic games.
There are concerted bridge building efforts in the pipeline, and it is to be hoped that NI state schools will allow their pupils to be exposed to gaelic games.
As stated earlier in the thread, unionists in NI state schools, and NI society as a whole can only benefit from allowing all kids to play gaelic games.  There are no valid reasons to prevent them.

If Sammy was genuinely concerned about these rules, he would realise that their demise would be hastened by unionists playing the games. How could the GAA justify these antiquated clauses if they alienated some of their own members?
Sammy's teacher friends and pupils could also come to  realise that gaelic games are no more threatening to Unionist identity than irish dancing. If they can flock to irish dancing in the shankill, there's no reason why unionists can't embrace gaelic football.

[SammyG]

He wouldn't be a bigot for wanting that rule changed to something less threatening to unionists, say by removing the National Identity and/or 32 counties bits.

So why not remove it then?

(Although, as has been said here many many times - wtf does a National Identity mean in the first place? and is rugby not played in a 32 county Ireland? anyway lets put these aside to a different thread.)

It is and it manages to do it without any political rules about nationhood.

Sammy would be a bigot, however, if he chose to pretend that these rules somehow stopped his children / his teachers friends, etc from playing gaelic games in state schools in NI.
He has been informed dozens of times in this and other threads that there are no barriers that prevent NI schools form playing gaelic games.

WHen have I been 'informed'? You saying that it's true doesn't make it so, you have point blank refused to answer any questions and tell me how it could happen.

Sammy however has severe problems accepting this and is going out of his way to manufacture false excuses to justify keeping gaelic games out of NI state schools.

How can I have a problem accepting something when I don't even know what it is?

I can see no reason other than bigotry as to why that might be the case.

And I can see know reason for your refusal to answer other than the fact that the GAA Official Guide is clear and you're talking shite.

He certainly hasn't come up with any genuine reasons why NI state schools should remain free of native irish sports.

Ignoring the shite about 'native' sports I've given you the reason loads of times.

As you are probably by now aware, no state schools in NI have ever played gaelic games.
There are concerted bridge building efforts in the pipeline, and it is to be hoped that NI state schools will allow their pupils to be exposed to gaelic games.

What are these bridge-building efforts?

As stated earlier in the thread, unionists in NI state schools, and NI society as a whole can only benefit from allowing all kids to play gaelic games.

On that we can all agree

There are no valid reasons to prevent them.

Apart from the rules of the GAA, which you seem to think you can ignore but won't say how this can happen.

[thejuice]

Ah, I give up, Im going to bed.

[believebelive]

I like to think of myslef as a tolerant soul and I have for a long time now looked in with increasing dispair at the petty squabbles on these and similar issues and have vowed not to get involved but sweet suffering f**k I cant bide my tongue any longer.

Sammy let me give you a theoretical situation - I am aprimary school teacher in a state school. I used to play a bit of GAA but since I put on three stone and reached the over 35 mark I have sort of given up. I am no longer a member of the GAA. Now, along comes a GAA coach who offers his services to the school one day a week for two hours. The school accepts and for two hours a week he comes in and coaches the kids. He has all the child safety courses comlpete and all the appropriate police checks carried out so he is fully covered by the schools insurance. Amazingly he does not ask the kids to sign up to become members of the GAA because as has all ready been pointed out they do not have to, nor does he try and entice them along to the local club to register as underage players. He simply coahces them in the skills of Gaelic football and hurling. Now, shock horror, the kids enjoy the games and wonder could they maybe play some proper matches. I think, 'well, what the hell, i used to play a bit I could take them.'
And so here I am, a teacher in a state school taking a hurling team in my school and not me nor any of my pupils have had to become members of the GAA to do so and yet we are all covered by the appropriate insurances.

Now Sammy, does that hypothetical situation answer some of your questions? probably not.

What is ironic is that I believe that the Association should change the wording of someof their rules to reach out to those in the Unionist community but your blindess with regards this particular issue (schools/membership etc) is quite amazing.
Your inabilty to admit that there is even the tiniest smallest possibility that you could be wrong leaves your arguments hollow weak.

Go on, admit it.... you might be wrong.

[SammyG]

I like to think of myslef as a tolerant soul and I have for a long time now looked in with increasing dispair at the petty squabbles on these and similar issues and have vowed not to get involved but sweet suffering f**k I cant bide my tongue any longer.

Sammy let me give you a theoretical situation - I am aprimary school teacher in a state school. I used to play a bit of GAA but since I put on three stone and reached the over 35 mark I have sort of given up. I am no longer a member of the GAA. Now, along comes a GAA coach who offers his services to the school one day a week for two hours. The school accepts and for two hours a week he comes in and coaches the kids. He has all the child safety courses comlpete and all the appropriate police checks carried out so he is fully covered by the schools insurance. Amazingly he does not ask the kids to sign up to become members of the GAA because as has all ready been pointed out they do not have to, nor does he try and entice them along to the local club to register as underage players. He simply coahces them in the skills of Gaelic football and hurling. Now, shock horror, the kids enjoy the games and wonder could they maybe play some proper matches. I think, 'well, what the hell, i used to play a bit I could take them.'
And so here I am, a teacher in a state school taking a hurling team in my school and not me nor any of my pupils have had to become members of the GAA to do so and yet we are all covered by the appropriate insurances.

Now Sammy, does that hypothetical situation answer some of your questions? probably not.

I have no problem at all with your hypothetical situation. What I don't understand and what no one will tell me is how you turn that into reality? How can you enter GAA competitions while ignoring the GAAs rules?

What is ironic is that I believe that the Association should change the wording of someof their rules to reach out to those in the Unionist community but your blindess with regards this particular issue (schools/membership etc) is quite amazing.
Your inabilty to admit that there is even the tiniest smallest possibility that you could be wrong leaves your arguments hollow weak.

I'm not sure where you've got the impression that I think I'm never wrong. I'm asking questions and no-one will answer them. If somebody comes on and says 'rule 27b says schools can compete' (or whatever) then I'll be more than happy. However this has been debated many times and no-one has been able to do this, so far.

Go on, admit it.... you might be wrong.

See previous answer.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

SammyG,

I will spell it out for you once more but I haven't the energy for a long if and but argument.  Only those "over-21" need to register as members of the GAA to play the games.   For underage players you may need to be registered for insurance purposes.   To train GAA underage teams you need to complete a coaching course.

You do not have to be a member of the GAA in either case.

/Jim.

[his holiness nb]

Sammy its very simple, if your kid plays soccer in school, he doesnt need to sign for a soccer club or any soccer organisation as its a schools competition.
If your kid plays GAA in school, he doesnt need to sign for a GAA club or the GAA organisation as its a schools competition.
Therefore the lack of requirement to sign ANYTHING to do with the GAA negates the requirement to subscribe to the notions of nationhood etc etc that you take exception to.
There no signing anything or promotion of anything required, he just pulls on a jersey and kicks a ball.
however if he does enjoy it and decides to join a local club to further these skills, this is when your argument actually becomes an argument.

[Tubberman]

SammyG, you seem to be incapable of understanding a simple point that has been repeated several times, most recently by Jim and 'his holiness'.
I was just about to make the same point as his holiness. If a kid plays soccer in the school playground, does he HAVE to be a signed up member of the FAI or IFA? No, of course not. WHY CAN YOU NOT APPLY THE SAME LOGIC TO GAA??

[his holiness nb]

Just a note on my previous point, would it perhaps be that very issue that Sammy has a problem with regarding GAA in schools.
There is no argument about playing it in schools, and that has been made very clear. Even Sammy cant claim still not to understand the difference.
But what if the Unionist kids enjoyed it and came home to the parents wanting to join a club?
Little Sammy junior wanting to pull on the O'Neills gear and smack a sliotar around with his terrorist supporting buddies at the weekend.
Well we cant have that now can we  

Maybe the real fear is that the next generation with be more tolerant to the other side through sporting interaction and us old fogies want to do all we can to prevent that?

For shame.

[SammyG]

Sammy its very simple, if your kid plays soccer in school, he doesnt need to sign for a soccer club or any soccer organisation as its a schools competition.
If your kid plays GAA in school, he doesnt need to sign for a GAA club or the GAA organisation as its a schools competition.
Therefore the lack of requirement to sign ANYTHING to do with the GAA negates the requirement to subscribe to the notions of nationhood etc etc that you take exception to.
There no signing anything or promotion of anything required, he just pulls on a jersey and kicks a ball.
however if he does enjoy it and decides to join a local club to further these skills, this is when your argument actually becomes an argument.

I have already accepted this (about ten times) and have absolutely no problem with it. I even said that my school used to play (a version) of Gaelic football in PE lessons. What I don't understand (and nobody will tell me) is how you go from a kickabout in the playground to actually playing in 'proper' matches?

[SammyG]

SammyG, you seem to be incapable of understanding a simple point that has been repeated several times, most recently by Jim and 'his holiness'.
I was just about to make the same point as his holiness. If a kid plays soccer in the school playground, does he HAVE to be a signed up member of the FAI or IFA? No, of course not. WHY CAN YOU NOT APPLY THE SAME LOGIC TO GAA??

See my anser to his holiness. I've no problem with kickabouts in schools (or anywhere else) if it gets kids a bit of exercise.

[believebelive]

Sammy its very simple, if your kid plays soccer in school, he doesnt need to sign for a soccer club or any soccer organisation as its a schools competition.
If your kid plays GAA in school, he doesnt need to sign for a GAA club or the GAA organisation as its a schools competition.
Therefore the lack of requirement to sign ANYTHING to do with the GAA negates the requirement to subscribe to the notions of nationhood etc etc that you take exception to.
There no signing anything or promotion of anything required, he just pulls on a jersey and kicks a ball.
however if he does enjoy it and decides to join a local club to further these skills, this is when your argument actually becomes an argument.

The part in bold answers your queston Sammy!!!!!

[his holiness nb]

Sammy its very simple, if your kid plays soccer in school, he doesnt need to sign for a soccer club or any soccer organisation as its a schools competition.
If your kid plays GAA in school, he doesnt need to sign for a GAA club or the GAA organisation as its a schools competition.
Therefore the lack of requirement to sign ANYTHING to do with the GAA negates the requirement to subscribe to the notions of nationhood etc etc that you take exception to.
There no signing anything or promotion of anything required, he just pulls on a jersey and kicks a ball.
however if he does enjoy it and decides to join a local club to further these skills, this is when your argument actually becomes an argument.

I have already accepted this (about ten times) and have absolutely no problem with it. I even said that my school used to play (a version) of Gaelic football in PE lessons. What I don't understand (and nobody will tell me) is how you go from a kickabout in the playground to actually playing in 'proper' matches?

Sammy knows exactly what we are talking about but let me clarify.
I never mentioned a kickabout in the yard, when I say playing GAA in school I meant playing for the school in a schools competition.
Now do you understand?
Its really not that difficult Sammy, I'm starting to worry about you!

[SammyG]

Sammy its very simple, if your kid plays soccer in school, he doesnt need to sign for a soccer club or any soccer organisation as its a schools competition.
If your kid plays GAA in school, he doesnt need to sign for a GAA club or the GAA organisation as its a schools competition.
Therefore the lack of requirement to sign ANYTHING to do with the GAA negates the requirement to subscribe to the notions of nationhood etc etc that you take exception to.
There no signing anything or promotion of anything required, he just pulls on a jersey and kicks a ball.
however if he does enjoy it and decides to join a local club to further these skills, this is when your argument actually becomes an argument.

The part in bold answers your queston Sammy!!!!!

So how do you get round the rules (as quoted earlier) for underage teams? Is there some sort of excemption for schools or do schools have different rules or what?

[SammyG]

Sammy its very simple, if your kid plays soccer in school, he doesnt need to sign for a soccer club or any soccer organisation as its a schools competition.
If your kid plays GAA in school, he doesnt need to sign for a GAA club or the GAA organisation as its a schools competition.
Therefore the lack of requirement to sign ANYTHING to do with the GAA negates the requirement to subscribe to the notions of nationhood etc etc that you take exception to.
There no signing anything or promotion of anything required, he just pulls on a jersey and kicks a ball.
however if he does enjoy it and decides to join a local club to further these skills, this is when your argument actually becomes an argument.

I have already accepted this (about ten times) and have absolutely no problem with it. I even said that my school used to play (a version) of Gaelic football in PE lessons. What I don't understand (and nobody will tell me) is how you go from a kickabout in the playground to actually playing in 'proper' matches?

Sammy knows exactly what we are talking about but let me clarify.
I never mentioned a kickabout in the yard, when I say playing GAA in school I meant playing for the school in a schools competition.
Now do you understand?
Its really not that difficult Sammy, I'm starting to worry about you!

See answer to believebelieve