IFA begging Ireland players to play for them

[saffron sam2]

Anthem of the host state is valid IMO, only if the other component parts of that state have the same protocol

Why? We already have different protocols - England and NI use GSTQ, Scotland and Wales use only their own chosen songs.

and if for example, the flag of the host state is also flown.

I don't think this is necessary either. (The IFA takes down the Union flag that usually flies at Windsor)

I genuinely think that the NI team is here to stay, what form that eventually does take will depend on the outcome of the current talks and the ambitions of young footballers from here. It will have nothing to do with political machinations, nor should it. It (the removal of GSTQ) is a concession only to equality and to how it should always have been.

I see it more along the lines of having a NI anthem for the NI team, as well as the point about the players.

  I am at a loss as to why many NI fans feel the need to use the British national anthem to express their identity, when they are to a man oposoed to the idea of a British team.

A point I have made to those (very small number now) who would bring Union flags to a match is - aren't you here to support Northern Ireland? Why do you think NI games are the place to proclaim your Britishness?

MW, the point I was trying to make was that there would be some validity in the argument re. GSTQ as the anthem of the host state if each of the four teams all played it and their own anthem, eg. SFA playing Flower of Scotland & GSTQ. Doesn't happen anywhere else in FIFA's world (that I know of) where an assocaition that is not a country plays the state anthem and its own.  If it does happen, then this would be a good reference point, otherwise for me anyway a non-starter. I mentioned the flag because there is no consistency within the IFA approach to flags & anthems; an NI specific flag lessens the validity of playing the British national anthem, imo.

Regarding the expression of Britishness - I feel that bringing a Union Jack to a NI match is as valid as playing GSTQ. There are plenty of opportunities to display Britishness - NI games need not be one of them.

[saffron sam2]

When talking about the FAI and IFA being sectarian, it should be borne in mind that the latter represents a sectarian entity, a place that is not a country or state but a part of a country defined by a local sectarian majority. This doesn't make OWC fans implicitly sectarian, but if you oppose sectarianism then you must be opposed to the continued separate existence of the IFA.

When talking about the two football associations it should also be borne in mind that :-

1. The IFA predates partition by over 40 years.

2. FIFA decided on the boundaries and names of the representative teams almost 30 years after partition.

Hence neither should be seen as representing any 'political' or sectarian entity. A fact, that unfortunately seems to escape most people involved in this debate and indeed football in general and until the geographical / footballing teams can be separated from the political entities, then few will be able to have a genuine rational debate about things.

[Solomon Kane]

When talking about the FAI and IFA being sectarian, it should be borne in mind that the latter represents a sectarian entity, a place that is not a country or state but a part of a country defined by a local sectarian majority. This doesn't make OWC fans implicitly sectarian, but if you oppose sectarianism then you must be opposed to the continued separate existence of the IFA.

Following that logic, does that not make the FAI sectarian as the ROI was as well designed around a local sectarian majority? Surely one follows the other? As well as that, how many countries throughout the world are sectarian? Is Pakistan Sectarian and therefore India? Are you opposed to them having seperate cricket teams? Will any Palestinian state be sectarian? Your logic doesn't follow at all. Unless you go for the Tower of Babel line different countries/states/whatever have different reasons for existing.

It makes me wonder if someone somwhere is writing letters into an eastern-European newspaper calling for a new Yugoslavia international team.

[his holiness nb]

In fairness to "roger" he did reply to me, by pm for some reason.
I'm confused as he just addressed the points I made, was wondering why he wouldnt want anyone else to see his views, oh well.

[doofus]

how do you get onto the owc page, i tried earlier and it says i need to register. I s there any way of getting on without registering.

You need to be a member or know someone who is a member. 

Don't use your e-mail address to register because there is a risk the admins will publish it.  That's why I can't join.

/Jim.

Why is there a risk that the admin would publish my email address? surely this has to be against some consumer rights and privacy laws?

I don't think I'l be willing to pay a fiver for the world to see my private email address!!

If there is anyone here registered could you message me with your username and password. thanks

[red hander]

'Following that logic, does that not make the FAI sectarian as the ROI was as well designed around a local sectarian majority? Surely one follows the other? As well as that, how many countries throughout the world are sectarian? Is Pakistan Sectarian and therefore India? Are you opposed to them having seperate cricket teams? Will any Palestinian state be sectarian? Your logic doesn't follow at all. Unless you go for the Tower of Babel line different countries/states/whatever have different reasons for existing.'

The 'Free State' (1921-1948) was not designed round a local sectarian majority.  There was a larger percentage Protestant population in Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan than there was in Derry, Fermanagh and Tyrone at the time of partition, but encompassing the other three counties in the new statelet would have seen a Catholic majority ... mmmmm, couldn't have that, could we? 

The only sectarian entity was the one created by the friends of unionism in the British Parliament (when unionist votes still counted), ignoring
the democratic wishes of the people of the whole of Ireland freely expressed in 1918.

Logic? You wouldn't know what it was if it bit you in the arse...

[Solomon Kane]

'Following that logic, does that not make the FAI sectarian as the ROI was as well designed around a local sectarian majority? Surely one follows the other? As well as that, how many countries throughout the world are sectarian? Is Pakistan Sectarian and therefore India? Are you opposed to them having seperate cricket teams? Will any Palestinian state be sectarian? Your logic doesn't follow at all. Unless you go for the Tower of Babel line different countries/states/whatever have different reasons for existing.'

The 'Free State' (1921-1948) was not designed round a local sectarian majority.  There was a larger percentage Protestant population in Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan than there was in Derry, Fermanagh and Tyrone at the time of partition, but encompassing the other three counties in the new statelet would have seen a Catholic majority ... mmmmm, couldn't have that, could we? 

The only sectarian entity was the one created by the friends of unionism in the British Parliament (when unionist votes still counted), ignoring
the democratic wishes of the people of the whole of Ireland freely expressed in 1918.

Logic? You wouldn't know what it was if it bit you in the arse...

Well done! 3 counties out of 26. And how long did that last? So the Free-state under De-Valera wasn't a Roman Catholic state? I'm not however prepared to get into the same sort of shitty sectarian mire that some others seem to revel in so I'm taking this no further.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Why is there a risk that the admin would publish my email address? surely this has to be against some consumer rights and privacy laws?

Because it has happened before.  Posted some guys e-mail address, pointed out his name and place of work and suggested that people "knew what to do".

surely this has to be against some consumer rights and privacy laws?

No idea but I doubt it very much.

/Jim.

[nifan]

Because it has happened before.  Posted some guys e-mail address, pointed out his name and place of work and suggested that people "knew what to do".

I cant remember too much of the details of this.
was it stew that was outed?
I certainly dont remember it being as sinister as it sounds, and it was removed ad the administrator in question was told not to do it again.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

I cant remember too much of the details of this.
was it stew that was outed?
I certainly dont remember it being as sinister as it sounds, and it was removed ad the administrator in question was told not to do it again.

NiFan,

I'm dipping into my mind too so I can't be totally sure.  I recall the guys e-mail address containing his name and place of work.  The admin commented on how easy it was to catch them in such a case and made the invite.  I also recall the "offence" that warranted this being fairly minor.

As someone who uses his e-mail address for work I certainly don't want to have my address on the web (due to spammers) or have some crowd flaming me and filling my quota.

The response on this site at the time was that this admin was the owner and could do what he liked.  If that's the case fair enough but people should know the risk.


/Jim.

[his holiness nb]

Didnt an OWC guy turn up at Tony Fearons workplace one day to discuss his posts?
He posted to tell people about it on OWC, most seemed delighted with that.

This is pretty serious stuff. A dangerous place to disclose any personal information.

[saffron sam2]

Because it has happened before.  Posted some guys e-mail address, pointed out his name and place of work and suggested that people "knew what to do".

I cant remember too much of the details of this.
was it stew that was outed?
I certainly dont remember it being as sinister as it sounds, and it was removed ad the administrator in question was told not to do it again.

I am aware of two such incidents, one was a poster calling himself 'DerryDave'. The email he used to register was his work email (which I can't remmber but I do remember the company / group he worked for).  The second one involved a poster calling himself / herself 'Keano' and the email he / she used was a work email from a credit union in the Warrenpoint / Burren / Rostrevor area.

It would certainly put me off registering (even more than spending the fiver), which is a pity because I believe I would be a useful addition.

[nifan]

The guy who turned up at tonys place of work, which both tonay and mac posted about in glowing terms akin to something of a love in (where tony declared the war was over and he wasnt going to attack NI football anymore - how we laughed) was mac, an individual who tony had already posted details up about on this site.
I dont see it as too much of a problem - he went and introduced himself.

[nifan]

This is pretty serious stuff. A dangerous place to disclose any personal information.

ps all the info mac knew about tony was from posts on here

we all know where he lives and where he works
we know his wifes name
we know where he goes on holidays or to an agm
we get pointed out when his picture is in any news medium
we hear about his organised campaigns of letters

tony gives out more information on himself than anyone need ever know.

[his holiness nb]

You still dont turn up unexpected and uninvited at his place of work ffs!

It was clearly out of order and he was lucky Tony took it so well.